Judge rules pledge unconstitutional

Sunbert · 09-15-2005, 4:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

How about teaching the facts and letting people decide for themselves what they believe.

I think that if there were a lot of facts there wouldn't be such a debate.

figment · 09-15-2005, 4:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Well, that depends on what you mean by "Darwinism". If you mean the theory of evolution, that plants and animals (including man)evolve over time, that's not religious. It's proven fact. This is as far as "Darwinism" was taught to me.

If you mean the evolution argument extended to teach man came up out of the primordial ooze, than yes, it is similar to religion.

What do you think of the "intelligent design" push?

No matter what, you've sidestepped the question of the pledge.

the belief that man somehow evolved from something else is not a proven fact. So yes, your clarification and description of micro versus macro evolution is the point I make. What can be observed versus what is believed,

Quote:

"The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48"
Belief \Be*lief"\, n. [OE. bileafe, bileve; cf. AS. gele['a]fa.
See Believe.]
1. Assent to a proposition or affirmation, or the acceptance
of a fact, opinion, or assertion as real or true, without
immediate personal knowledge; reliance upon word or
testimony; partial or full assurance without positive
knowledge or absolute certainty; persuasion; conviction;
confidence; as, belief of a witness; the belief of our
senses.
[1913 Webster]"

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 4:46 PM

So we agree?

figment · 09-15-2005, 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

So we agree?

affirmative

Dont teach any religion as science.

phobiaphobe · 09-15-2005, 4:53 PM

I don't worship Darwin.

figment · 09-15-2005, 4:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

I don't worship Darwin.

no one said you did.

phobiaphobe · 09-15-2005, 4:57 PM

Trying to illustrate the difference between teaching religion and teaching Darwinism. Nobody prays to Darwin, Darwin is not believed to vengeful, Darwin will not punish or smite you.

Teaching a theory is not the same as teaching a religion.

Sunbert · 09-15-2005, 4:58 PM

The intelligent design theory is not a religion either.

phobiaphobe · 09-15-2005, 5:04 PM

I'll have to read more on "intelligent design".

My high-school biology teacher believed in "little e" or microevolution, but insisted that there was no proof of macroevolution. He believes that life, particularly human life, is too perfect to have evolved, and therefore must have been created. He was good though, he never tried to tell us which was right and which was wrong.

Furthermore: is "intelligent design" being taught in public schools?

aussie_929 · 09-15-2005, 5:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

Irony Defined

I never said Australia is the greatest place on Earth.

Sunbert · 09-15-2005, 5:08 PM

Intelligent design is not being taught, mainly because those opposed to it think it will be a way for the church to get into public schools. However, you can teach this theory without ever mentioning God or any other deity--teach it the same as your high school teacher. In my personal opinion, both theories take a lot of faith. Nothing can be proven (I'm talking macro here...).

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by figment

For example, teaching "Darwinism" is schools is about as religious as teaching creation in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbert

+1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbert

The intelligent design theory is not a religion either.

So Darwinism is...but Intelligent Design, isn't?

Sunbert · 09-15-2005, 5:10 PM

I just meant my "+1" for teaching intelligent design. Sorry for the incongruity....

aussie_929 · 09-15-2005, 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scout

AMERICA, THE GREATEST PLACE ON EARTH, UNDER GOD!

I've served my Country, my State, and "the public", so I reserve the right for you and I to say, or not say, whatever we wish.

I think it interesting there are restrictions put forth against religion, whatever the religion is, by the state, whether it be by the vote or appeal of the individual, the people, or a government entity.

I myself am Christian. I would absolutely ask my children to leave the room if the pledge of allegiance was enforced as "under Satan". I don't care if it's taken from the pledge at all. It will not effect my families Faith.

As far as the "God Money" statement I made, it would bother me even less if it was taken off the money.

And Aussie, Americans tend to be proud of our Country. There's nothing wrong with that. You could be proud of your Country too, and spout all day the glories of your land. It wouldn't bug anyone. So drop the "small mans" complex and quit yer bitchin'.

LOL you dumb ignorant hillbilly. There is nothing wrong with being proud as I said earlier.

It's people like you who make the US look bad and whom I was referring to. Baketech wonders why I keep seeing the need to tell people like you where I am from....

I dont know where you get the "small mans" complex crap? Couldnt think of anything better?

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 5:14 PM

I have a book, considered a classic on the topic, I still need to read on macroevolution. It claims to prove it does exist.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

But it's almost 1100 pages and a bit intimidating just to look at. Kinda like the Bible.

Sunbert · 09-15-2005, 5:15 PM

And I had one that claimed to prove intelligent design. Again, if there were cold, hard facts there wouldn't be a debate.

phobiaphobe · 09-15-2005, 5:16 PM

To me, the unique species adapted to their environment in isolation (Galapagos Islands for example) are pretty strong indicators of macroevolution. Proof, even.

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbert

And I had one that claimed to prove intelligent design. Again, if there were cold, hard facts there wouldn't be a debate.

Agreed. The Bible says God and Jesus Christ exist too.

Just throwing that out there. Not as proof, as a point of interest.

Sunbert · 09-15-2005, 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

To me, the unique species adapted to their environment in isolation (Galapagos Islands for example) are pretty strong indicators of macroevolution. Proof, even.

A species adapting to the environment is microevolution.

phobiaphobe · 09-15-2005, 5:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbert

A species adapting to the environment is microevolution.

Are there not unique species there not found anywhere else?

luvtolean · 09-15-2005, 5:29 PM

Phobe...the ice is cracking.

sheepofblue · 09-15-2005, 5:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunbert

A species adapting to the environment is microevolution.

Hmm I thought is was called practice when I got to a track