[BizJetGuy]

Story Here

Not that I'm against food stamps, it just seems like some are making more of an effort to get people dependant on the government rather than trying to get them out of poverty.

Teach a man to fish...

[flamesuit: on]

[phobiaphobe]

This is one very ironic difference between conservative USA and Liberal Canada. Here, rather than food stamps, we have non-profit food banks where individuals and companies can voluntarily donate non-perishable food for the needy.

You'd expect it to be the other way around.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

This is one very ironic difference between conservative USA and Liberal Canada. Here, rather than food stamps, we have non-profit food banks where individuals and companies can voluntarily donate non-perishable food for the needy.

You'd expect it to be the other way around.

We have those also.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

This is one very ironic difference between conservative USA and Liberal Canada. Here, rather than food stamps, we have non-profit food banks where individuals and companies can voluntarily donate non-perishable food for the needy.

You'd expect it to be the other way around.

We have those as well, but gubmint freebies buy votes.

[BizJetGuy]

Originally Posted by BDA116

We have those as well, but gubmint freebies buy votes.

Strengthens the base

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by BizJetGuy

Story Here

Teach a man to fish...

That would be best way to go about. Increase funding for education, invest in our communities (instead foreign wars and peacekeeping missions), and plan and develop for the future of this country. But in order to do that, you would need to buy that local jackass of a congressman. The jerk is realistically only looking to get re-elected and not neccessarily worry about the community or its populace.

[BizJetGuy]

Originally Posted by FantasyGod

That would be best way to go about. Increase funding for education, invest in our communities (instead foreign wars and peacekeeping missions), and plan and develop for the future of this country. But in order to do that, you would need to buy that local jackass of a congressman. The jerk is realistically only looking to get re-elected and not neccessarily worry about the community or its populace.

I respectfully disagree with your first point. I don't believe throwing money at the problem is the solution - handouts only make the masses more dependant on Uncle Sam. I would submit that we need to cut funding and stop punishing through taxes those who use the opportunities this great country offers. And isolationism isn't the answer, either.

And I'm not taking your bait on the DeLay issue

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by BizJetGuy

I respectfully disagree with your first point. I don't believe throwing money at the problem is the solution - handouts only make the masses more dependant on Uncle Sam. I would submit that we need to cut funding and stop punishing through taxes those who use the opportunities this great country offers. And isolationism isn't the answer, either.

And I'm not taking your bait on the DeLay issue

+1

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by FantasyGod

That would be best way to go about. Increase funding for education, invest in our communities (snip), and plan and develop for the future of this country. But in order to do that, you would need to buy that local jackass of a congressman. The jerk is realistically only looking to get re-elected and not neccessarily worry about the community or its populace.

All true (other than the dig I deleted). And I agree, investing in the country through education and other programs rather than gubmint cheese is a better solution.

BUT, it's a pricier solution, and someone has to pay for it.

And it requires people to want to improve their lot in life through ambition and work, rather than a side job the govt doesn't know about to keep from taking them out of the welfare range.

Not the way to buy votes.

[BizJetGuy]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

And it requires people to want to improve their lot in life through ambition and work, rather than a side job the govt doesn't know about to take them out of the welfare range.

Exactly!

Now the $64,000 question - how do you motivate people on the government dole to lift themselves up after they have been conditioned to rely on said government?

[luvtolean]

That is a very hard question.

I've had 2 different "loved ones" take gubmint cheese. Both had children way too young, one was a single mom, and both cried.

They both quit the program very quickly though they qualified for much longer as they had too much pride and couldn't handle the shame. Now, many years later, they're both educated and doing well.

But, how do you instill pride in people?

[Purpdust]

At some point the human race is going to take Darwin out of the natural selection process. I feel that in North America anyone with a little hard work can make it, but for votes our goverments keep creating these policies that reward mediocrity.

I agree with the above post, we need to start and fix our problems before we solve the worlds. There are Millions in America living below the status quo, what do we offer them? Meal tickets and welfare. That takes care of today.

I will not pretend to have any answers, but it does seem that our countries as we know them only can survive as long as there are people that are willing to work for less. I do not know about the states so much, but in Ontario it would be really tough to live off minimum wages. I have always made more, and even then I found it hard.

I guess I am contradicting myself again. We do not want poor in our country but we want cheap products and services. What do you want more?

[BizJetGuy]

I think it was LTL that quoted someone a while back - "Poor people have poor habits".

Handouts simply compound that mentality and persuade those that accept handouts to vote for those that vow to not take them away. The answer lies somewhere in changing people's habits, not increasing the negative reinforcement.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by BizJetGuy

I think it was LTL that quoted someone a while back - "Poor people have poor habits".

Handouts simply compound that mentality and persuade those that accept handouts to vote for those that vow to not take them away. The answer lies somewhere in changing people's habits, not increasing the negative reinforcement.

Yeah, it was. I stole it from an attorney my GF worked for. He used to say it to her all the time in relation to the astoundingly bad choices some of their clients had made in things like real estate deals.

It's why so many lottery winners end up dead broke in short order.

And I absolutely agree with you on your solution. Positive reinforcement will always work better than fear.

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by BizJetGuy

I think it was LTL that quoted someone a while back - "Poor people have poor habits".

Handouts simply compound that mentality and persuade those that accept handouts to vote for those that vow to not take them away. The answer lies somewhere in changing people's habits, not increasing the negative reinforcement.

Corporate America works hard to widen the gap between the poor and the rich and continues to do so. Roughly 60% of Walmart employees utilize Medicaid (gov't medical insurance for low-income, poverty-line, etc...) and then you have these guys at a shareholder congregation singing the Walmart song. Maybe the gov't can invest in our communities so that our "poor" people wouldn't be in these near minimum wage jobs. More funding for projects that would generate decent-paying jobs for our own communities, NOT handouts. I don't believe in Handouts, except maybe a first time homeowner program. Why can't we take care of our own people, our fellow Americans?

Where is this money coming from? Maybe if the gov't took the same amount of money thrown at rebuilding Iraq and used it to rebuild America, there would be an increasing middle class and a diminishing lower class. This isn't any dream other than the American Dream where a substantial middle class is key.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by FantasyGod

Corporate America works hard to widen the gap between the poor and the rich and continues to do so.

I totally disagree with this. Corporations exist to make money. Don't blame them for focusing on the ball and trying to do this.

If a corporation does something that will cost them profits, shareholders can, and do sue the company for misusing funds.

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I totally disagree with this. Corporations exist to make money. Don't blame them for focusing on the ball and trying to do this.

If a corporation does something that will cost them profits, shareholders can, and do sue the company for misusing funds.

I didn't mention whether or not Corporate America is right or wrong for their objectives. My point was for the gov't to help its own citizens. From the Hurricane Katrina and Rita thread, "If we can bail out Iraq, we can bail out our own." This may sound insensitive, but Iraqis aren't my people, fellow Americans are. We have plenty of domestic issues.

[luvtolean]

And my point was that they don't try to widen the gap, which is exactly what you said. They work hard to maximize profits.

Besides, have you ever really thought about what a corporation is? It's nothing. It's a figment of someone's imagination. They come and go at our whim.

You are right, the government is the one that must protect it's people. Not some fictional entity.

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

They work hard to maximize profits. Besides, have you ever really thought about what a corporation is? It's nothing. It's a figment of someone's imagination. They come and go at our whim.

I'm not trying to convert, convince or vent at you but I'm a college student working for a retailer (Home Depot). During my time with the company (past four years), I've witnessed the employee benefits being cut back dramatically. Ever since the board of directors booted the company founders, Arthur Blank and Bernie Marcus, and recruited Bob Nardeli, Nardeli and his cronies have cut back merit bonuses, wages, and health care. We used to get a merit bonus for employee of the month as well as longevity bonus ( $$$ for 2, 5, and 10 years). Now its more like, "Good job. You were the employee of the month. Here's your 36 cent pay increase for your annual review. BTW, keep up the good work." I'm not kidding about the 36 pay increase, either.

Sorry guys, had to vent. Corporate America is made up of ambitious people that make it rich at the expense of the other less fortunate. People run Corporate America. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people."

[BDA116]

I guess they should just keep losing money rather than cut back on expenses to stay profitable and stay in business, thus you keeping your job.
It is their right to do so.
It is your responsibility to keep and hold insurance, not your company's

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by BDA116

It is their right to do so.
It is your responsibility to keep and hold insurance, not your company's

You are correct, sir.

Originally Posted by BDA116

I guess they should just keep losing money rather than cut back on expenses to stay profitable and stay in business, thus you keeping your job.

I wish I could share the store's profit and loss statements with you w/o losing my job but I can't. Trust when I tell you my store has a VERY comfortable profit margin. Nowhere near just trying to stay in business.

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by BDA116

I guess they should just keep losing money rather than cut back on expenses to stay profitable and stay in business, thus you keeping your job.
It is their right to do so.
It is your responsibility to keep and hold insurance, not your company's

Well said. It's the same thing the Eisner did when he took over the reigns at Disney. My brother worked at Walt Disney World at the time, and the pay range for every single job in that park was astronomical. Even my brother admitted that he was outrageously overpaid.

That all changed quickly.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by BizJetGuy

how do you motivate people on the government dole to lift themselves up after they have been conditioned to rely on said government?

Take it away from them. Beat the media to the punch and lay out your plan in plain English to the public. Explain that in order to fund the education and repair of American society as a whole, incremental cuts will be made over time to reduce "aid" and increase education, housing, and local security (police, health, etc) spending. Cut aid to foreign entities like Russia, Israel, etc and push it into our own economy where it belongs. Eliminate "riders" on bills passing through Congress so they can't hide spending.

Make mediocrity hard.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by FantasyGod

I'm not trying to convert, convince or vent at you but I'm a college student working for a retailer (Home Depot). During my time with the company (past four years), I've witnessed the employee benefits being cut back dramatically.

I wor