[luvtolean]

Very interesting story.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20051026/ts_csm/osocialfin

It will have to become more innovative, more productive, more customer driven," he argues. And that may mean giving private companies a larger role in providing welfare state services, and encouraging a more entrepreneurial approach.

and

"Finland is an exceptional case Europe," cautions Riisto Erasaari, professor of social policy at Helsinki University. "We are a small homogenous country, heavily state-based, and our social model as a whole is so typically Finnish that it won't travel.

Meaning pretty much all Finns. They have none of the issues many other countries are struggling with while integrating populations from other countries. Most of Europe is far more homogenous than the US.

[BizJetGuy]

Interesting - I have a very good friend from Oulu so I'm somewhat aware of the workings there.

Tax rates are incredible. Military service is compulsory and, as stated in the article, traffic fines can be outrageous since they are based on the estimated income of the offender. But they do have a great education system, University is free and healthcare is provided.

I met my friend while he was living in the states and the only way he could afford a car was to buy it in the U.S. and ship it back to Finland when he returned. Even then, it was heavily taxed at the port.

I heard it gets a little chilly there

[phobiaphobe]

Yes they are all very equal... equally educated, equally poor.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by BizJetGuy

Interesting - I have a very good friend from Oulu so I'm somewhat aware of the workings there.

Tax rates are incredible. Military service is compulsory and, as stated in the article, traffic fines can be outrageous since they are based on the estimated income of the offender. But they do have a great education system, University is free and healthcare is provided.

Yeah, Oulu is up in near the Arctic circle. North of Moscow. When I visited there, I saw the Northern Lights, and sunset was at 1AM. Talk about jet lag!

I find Scandanavia a fascinating place. My co-workers there tell me they feel the tax rate makes it a very "stagnant" economy.

[oldfogey]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I find Scandanavia a fascinating place. My co-workers
there tell me they feel the tax rate makes it a very "stagnant" economy.

That's getting to be old news. Sweden, Denmark and Finland are definitely on the flexible rather than schlerotic side of the European economies. Tax is high, but reforms are moving them down and cutting taxes on companies in particular.

By the way, I expect my Cayman to be Finnish-built. It's one of the things that attracts me!

[tnarinen]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Yes they are all very equal... equally educated, equally poor.

- free education does not mean "University degrees for all". It means you the education for free if you are skilled enough to get in, but the competition to get into the best Universities and best programs is quite fierce and there is no way around this competition, no amount of cash get you in, ever
- vehicle/gas taxation is huge, but that covers only road-use vehicles, track-only bikes are tax free, me like
- healthcare is provided; my recent track-crash broke a bone in my right wrist, casts, load of X-Rays, around 10 visits to doc cost me about 200 Eur, total.
- military service is mandatory indeed; with our population and size of country it is not economically viable to maintain big enough professional military
- of cource points listed above equal a fairly high income tax, but there are some nice things we get in return

If you are educated, really smart and hard-working you can make better living in US (I've spent several months in US in work/business related matters, have a bunch of US friends and know a lot of Finns that currently live in US, so I know something about your system), but it is not such a bad place we have here.

And since this is a motorcycling site, consider the following: I bought a season pass to best track day organizer in Finland for 500 Eur. That bought me over 40 track days so at least something is somewhat competitively priced over here

[phobiaphobe]

You guys are only slightly left of us on the spectrum... Yes you probably have a pretty high standard of living but more taxation = less freedom. I'll bet your taxation isn't actually that much higher than Canada. It would be interesting to see some figures.

[tnarinen]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

You guys are only slightly left of us on the spectrum... Yes you probably have a pretty high standard of living but more taxation = less freedom.

Agreed, sort of. Although I just think of it as: more taxation => less money to spend on my track bike

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

I'll bet your taxation isn't actually that much higher than Canada. It would be interesting to see some figures.

Dunno about Canada, but our Vat is around 22%, max income tax is around 55% (for say 70 KEur/year you pay total of ~39%), capital income tax (from investments) is 29%. 45% from the price of new cars is tax and the price of gas is doubled due to taxes.

[ND4SPD]

Originally Posted by tnarinen

- military service is mandatory indeed; with our population and size of country it is not economically viable to maintain big enough professional military

Do all of you guys have automatic weapons hidden in your closets too?

[phobiaphobe]

Here's an interesting site:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/...ax_wed_sin_wor

I wonder though, if this takes into consideration all of our fuel and goods and services tax?

edit: yes it does.

[tnarinen]

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Do all of you guys have automatic weapons hidden in your closets too?

Nope, but we'd like to think we have pretty efficient way of distributing them quickly if poo falls into fan. I think Swiss (??) and Israeli are the one's that actually have the assault weapons at homes.

But over 95% of our male population are trained score chest hits with a 7.62 from 300 meters out.

[oldfogey]

From Phobe's site, a different ranking:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/..._of_gdp&int=-1

[phobiaphobe]

Originally Posted by oldfogey

From Phobe's site, a different ranking:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/..._of_gdp&int=-1

Pretty frightening.

Fun web site, I've been playing on there all morning. Wait until the Australia VS USA debates flare up again.