[BDA116]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Way to keep us safe Herr Dept of Gestapo...I mean Homeland Security.

Here you go, monitoring your library. Check out Mao's Little Red Book and the suits come say hi and put you on a list.

http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily...5/a09lo650.htm

So rich, a paper in a class about totalitarian and fascist governments gets the US government knocking your door.

But you know, only people who do bad things should have fears of giving up your Constitutional rights.

Ah yes, little liar boy has admitted this never happened.
Just trying to push his own agenda and got caught red handed.
I hope he does jail time.
http://insidehighered.com/news/2005/12/26/mao2
A perfect commentary on the fear mongering about the clause that has existed since 1978.

[luvtolean]

The House didn't approve the 3 months, they forced it to be 5 weeks. This means the Senate has to work over the holidays.

The House did it in protest I'm sure.

Let this garbage expire!

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Ah yes, little liar boy has admitted this never happened.
Just trying to push his own agenda and got caught red handed.
I hope he does jail time.
http://insidehighered.com/news/2005/12/26/mao2
A perfect commentary on the fear mongering about the clause that has existed since 1978.

Jail time?

Your link is down, but I'll believe it was bogus.

Actually maybe not so funny...I'm sure the Gestapo will find some kind of terror link to it and lock his ass up. After all, playing with a laser gets you arrested as a terrorist now.

It's called an interest in limiting the government...and for good reason.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

It's called an interest in limiting the government...and for good reason.

I'm all for more than just limiting the government, even reducing it by more than half.
But making false and demeaning allegations and false police reports are all worthy of jail time, period.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by BDA116

I'm all for more than just limiting the government, even reducing it by more than half.

But just because you don't want to pay for it. You don't care that the if the government gets unprecedented powers over your rights.

But making false and demeaning allegations and false police reports are all worthy of jail time, period.

I hear worse **** out of Limbaugh, Jesse Jackson and Michael Moore's mouths every time they speak.

They didn't name officers or anything like that. There's no libel here.

[BDA116]

There are no unprecedented powers in that clause. It has been there since 1978, and the local authorities have had access longer. That's all I'm arguing on the P.A. - there is some serious amount of false information going around about it. In fact, the P.A. adds Congressional oversight to that part of the 1978 FISA law.
Yeah there are some things that could be re-examined, I'm all for that, but this inane "library clause" crap is fear mongering.

And he did file false police reports, which is a crime.

[luvtolean]

Then why do you care if it expires? No need for 2 laws on the same subject.


By the way, since the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, a republican, is calling for hearings, a judge from FISA has resigned over allegations current activities are illegal (reported a rare occurence in the media), and many more in the know questioning the legality of many of the recent spy activities, I think it's hardly clear to laymen like you and I what is or isn't legal under either bill.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by BDA116

And he did file false police reports, which is a crime.

He filed a false police report? I don't think so. I think he made a false report of a police action in the media. Much different.

[Scout]

I think LTL's name should be Blue, and BDA's name red, you know, to keep the comments and colors consistant.


Threadjack over, GAME ON!

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Scout

I think LTL's name should be Blue, and BDA's name red, you know, to keep the comments and colors consistant.


Threadjack over, GAME ON!

Naw, I need the color for libertarian. On this issue, for whatever reason, more blues just happen to be against the government spying on it's people than reds.

It could be just because they're trying to piss off the reds, but I don't care.

"The ends justify the means."

[Scout]

[luvtolean]

I might come out of the deal with fleas though.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Then why do you care if it expires? No need for 2 laws on the same subject.

I really don't care, to be honest. I was just pointing out that fact, as I didn't know anything about it until hearing all the gnashing of teeth and looked into it.
There aren't two laws about it, as the P.A. clause just changed the language in the FISA law to include the oversight.
I also don't see any reason that the FBI shouldn't be allowed access to the same records as local authorities - with the prescribed court orders.
As for the sunset part, from what I can gather is that the author(s) and Congress decided (I'm sure after learning of this law for the first time for many of them) that this was one thing to re-examine in the future.
Again, I'm all for the re-examination of parts of the P.A. (including clauses that just revisited other legislation) to determine if they are a) necessary and b) Constitutional.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

He filed a false police report? I don't think so. I think he made a false report of a police action in the media. Much different.

That article specifically stated as such. I'm sure it can be found again if one really wanted to read it.

[phobiaphobe]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Naw, I need the color for libertarian....

The guy that supports government regulation of energy prices calls himself Libertarian? Who is John Galt?

[luvtolean]

The government should be in charge of infrastructure in my opinion. I happen to consider energy infrastructure.

Most energy prices are already regulated. But gasoline isn't.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

By the way, since the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman, a republican, is calling for hearings, a judge from FISA has resigned over allegations current activities are illegal (reported a rare occurence in the media), and many more in the know questioning the legality of many of the recent spy activities, I think it's hardly clear to laymen like you and I what is or isn't legal under either bill.

This is a completely different subject. Do some research on the history of that judge and decide for yourself his motivation.
He specifically agreed during the prior administration that these things were valid when klinton spied on American businesses for economic data.
The wiretap situation will be talked about for years with legal experts on both sides saying they're right. Fact is, it happened under each administration since Carter. Only now is it being made an issue.

But sure, if the Senate feels they need to have an investigation go for it.
It will just be a circus like all other Senate investigations turn out to be.

[phobiaphobe]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

The government should be in charge of infrastructure in my opinion. I happen to consider energy infrastructure.

....

You're entitled to your opinion, but you're a long way from Libertarian. I'd say more like "centre-right"

[luvtolean]

Funny, there've been a couple of "political" tests on the site over the years, and always center left.

Over the years here, I've been accused of a raging liberal, and a raging conservative.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Naw, I need the color for libertarian. On this issue, for whatever reason, more blues just happen to be against the government spying on it's people than reds.

It could be just because they're trying to piss off the reds, but I don't care.

"The ends justify the means."

You know very well that my views are Libertarian. Just as with any party there are more liberal and more conservative Libertarians.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by BDA116

This is a completely different subject. Do some research on the history of that judge and decide for yourself his motivation.

No need, the media actually managed to report this pretty well I think. It was written several times this judge is liberal.

Anyway, back to the Patriot Act. DIE!!!

[Mo Noyz]

Libertarian?

The fine folks that brought you Ruby Ridge were libertarians.

Then again, so was Jim Jones.

Count me out.

I don't see much libertarian aspirations in LTL's political comments. I find him to be as much centre-left as I am centre-right.

Or, to put it in even simpler terms, I think that we are both as anti-partyline as it gets. And as he has already stated, that tends to get you labeled to the opposite extreme of whomever you happen to be arguing with at the time. That simply happens because most people can't stand to have their ideas challenged intellectually(not to be confused with jaim who is intellectually challenged )and believe that anyone who does so is a sworn enemy from the other side.

It's rather unfortunate that political discourse in America has come to that, but it has.