[Scout]

Discuss.

[Getsome]

ummm,

[sheepofblue]

3 == number
yea == slang for yes
? == question mark punctuation
WTF == short for What The F***

[Getsome]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

3 == number
yea == slang for yes
? == question mark punctuation
WTF == short for What The F***

guess that would be end of discussion then....

[Scout]

My fault for watching early morning CNN.

Vote on "Immediate withdrawal of troops from Iraq"- sponsored measure by the Republicans yesterday. 3 Dem's voted "Yea" and the rest voted "Nay". What I gathered was the Reps said "put your money where your mouth is" (letting FOX News tell it).

Struck me as stranger than fiction.

I guess the SSS (Secret Society of Sheep) or some other entity is already suppressing this issue that may give us a Congressional black eye.


Don't call me "Deepthroat".

[Mojave954]

They can vote all they want. It AIN"T gonna happen. We leave and the insurgents will be back stronger than ever. Next time this will be worse, much worse than it is now.

My thoughts, "ELECTION YEAR". This way they can tell the constituents, "hey we wanted to bring them home but, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

[sheepofblue]

Umm only 3 voted yes.

Also they are not insurgents, they are terrorists. If you notice the majority are not Iraqi. And even less of the leadership is Iraqi.

[Mo Noyz]

Gradual withdrawal will likely start after the elections in December.

IMO, that';s exactly the way it should be.

[seamus]

It was brought to a vote to get the presidential detractors put up or shut up.

[jaim]

A couple of points here.

1. The insergents are mostly Iraqis fighting to get the occupying U.S. forces to leave.

2. If we left now, France, Germany, and other countries who were against the war to begin with would get their oil contracts back and Bush's oil buddies would not get their hands on them.

3. If we left now, would it really be any worse than it was before we went in?
You can't liberate a people who will not stand up and fight for themselves in the first place.

An orderly withdrawl would be good and to start that now would be even better. If the withdrawl is not started soon the midtem elections next year
will be a slaughter for the republicans. Which isn't a bad thing in itself. But from a political standpoint not doing anything to get the troops out of Iraq asap is political suicide. Siding with the president over this is also political suicide. His pole numbers are the lowest ever and him buddying up with Asia really isn't making any friends here. Especially since so many of our jobs have gone over to that part of the world.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by jaim

A couple of points here.

1. The insergents are mostly Iraqis fighting to get the occupying U.S. forces to leave.

2. If we left now, France, Germany, and other countries who were against the war to begin with would get their oil contracts back and Bush's oil buddies would not get their hands on them.

3. If we left now, would it really be any worse than it was before we went in?
You can't liberate a people who will not stand up and fight for themselves in the first place.

An orderly withdrawl would be good and to start that now would be even better. If the withdrawl is not started soon the midtem elections next year
will be a slaughter for the republicans. Which isn't a bad thing in itself. But from a political standpoint not doing anything to get the troops out of Iraq asap is political suicide. Siding with the president over this is also political suicide. His pole numbers are the lowest ever and him buddying up with Asia really isn't making any friends here. Especially since so many of our jobs have gone over to that part of the world.

1) No and they are led by a Jordanian who kills his own people, the insurgents are.... oh wait you are talking about those ten guys in Takrit, not the terrorists
2) his oil buddies just made MORE money which congress is getting ready to punish them for
3) YES if we leave now it is likely to start a civil war with a side of terrorists involved hoping to create a new Afganistan. Things are better there now, are they perfect no. But compare the troops killed (may they rest in peace) to the murders in LA, CA in the same time period, should we abandon LA, CA. Also the sacrifice and hard work of those troops has resulted in Syria and Jordan moderating (although Syria is beginning to believe we WILL back slide) Further in Iraq while people are dying you here about it, before they just got fed into a wood chipper and anyone complaining followed (and relatives lived in fear they were next). Before women were routinely raped my Saddam's sons at a whim, now they hold office in the government. Sorry but

Oh and as far as the presidents opinion poles a LEADER leads rather than blowing with the wind of the moment. Don't misunderstand I don't care for Bush on MANY issues (guns, campaign first amendment violation, lack of defending the borders from illegal aliens, spending like a drunken fool, prescription medicine program, etc)

[Mojave954]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Umm only 3 voted yes.

Also they are not insurgents, they are terrorists. If you notice the majority are not Iraqi. And even less of the leadership is Iraqi.

I hear ya sheep. "Insurgent" was coined by the media, as to not "upset" the general public. Evidently the word terrorist, scares people.

[DUX]

Originally Posted by jaim

A couple of points here.

1. The insergents are mostly Iraqis fighting to get the occupying U.S. forces to leave. Not true. Stoping insurgents from flowing across the borders that want to come in and fight is a big part of what we're doing over thre.

2. If we left now, France, Germany, and other countries who were against the war to begin with would get their oil contracts back and Bush's oil buddies would not get their hands on them. This is a little far-fetched/conspirarcy based. Have you parked your gas using machines in protest yet?

3. If we left now, would it really be any worse than it was before we went in? Absolutely. Iran would become a big factor in Iraq. What people don't see is the bigger picture. We're also stabilizing the region. This is in our best interest.
You can't liberate a people who will not stand up and fight for themselves in the first place. That's insulting to the hundred of Iraqis who have already died attempting to bring about change in their own country.

An orderly withdrawl would be good and to start that now would be even better. If the withdrawl is not started soon the midtem elections next year
will be a slaughter for the republicans. Which isn't a bad thing in itself. But from a political standpoint not doing anything to get the troops out of Iraq asap is political suicide. Siding with the president over this is also political suicide. His pole numbers are the lowest ever and him buddying up with Asia really isn't making any friends here. Especially since so many of our jobs have gone over to that part of the world. It's too early in the morning for me to touch this one.

What it boils down to is that you can repeat the sound bites that liberals provide to stir up attention no matter what it does to our country or you can become educated and draw your own conclusions.

I'm not slamming you here Jaim, just asking that you do a little more research and be a little more open-minded. There's a lot more going on than CNN is reporting.

[Mojave954]

Originally Posted by jaim

A couple of points here.

1. The insergents are mostly Iraqis fighting to get the occupying U.S. forces to leave.

2. If we left now, France, Germany, and other countries who were against the war to begin with would get their oil contracts back and Bush's oil buddies would not get their hands on them.

3. If we left now, would it really be any worse than it was before we went in?
You can't liberate a people who will not stand up and fight for themselves in the first place.

An orderly withdrawl would be good and to start that now would be even better. If the withdrawl is not started soon the midtem elections next year
will be a slaughter for the republicans. Which isn't a bad thing in itself. But from a political standpoint not doing anything to get the troops out of Iraq asap is political suicide. Siding with the president over this is also political suicide. His pole numbers are the lowest ever and him buddying up with Asia really isn't making any friends here. Especially since so many of our jobs have gone over to that part of the world.

1. They are not Iraqi people fighting to get us to leave. That is just abdsurd. Stop watching the WE channel.

2. F#ck France, bunch of pansies. And they can keep Depp too.

3. It would be worse, a lot worse. Let us not forget when the Iyotollah (sic) over threw the Shaw and put Iran back in the stone age and all the chaos he caused.

4. About the only thing I agree with here. It is an election yr as I already stated.

[sheepofblue]

Oh and as far as France they can't stop a riot in their own country for weeks so Yep I will wait on them to get something done.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by jaim

A couple of points here.

1. The insergents are mostly Iraqis fighting to get the occupying U.S. forces to leave.

Nope.

2. If we left now, France, Germany, and other countries who were against the war to begin with would get their oil contracts back and Bush's oil buddies would not get their hands on them.

You must be referring to the illegal arms contracts that Saddam was paying in oil. That's not more corrupt than Bush? Your Kung-Fu is weak.

3. If we left now, would it really be any worse than it was before we went in?
You can't liberate a people who will not stand up and fight for themselves in the first place.

The US has a bad reputation for going in, starting a war, using our massively lethal toys, and bailing when it gets tough. We better not do that here.

An orderly withdrawl would be good and to start that now would be even better. If the withdrawl is not started soon the midtem elections next year
will be a slaughter for the republicans. Which isn't a bad thing in itself. But from a political standpoint not doing anything to get the troops out of Iraq asap is political suicide. Siding with the president over this is also political suicide. His pole numbers are the lowest ever and him buddying up with Asia really isn't making any friends here. Especially since so many of our jobs have gone over to that part of the world.

I think the repubs could take a bit of an ass kicking. They deserve it, and I promise I will help them. I'm sick of the nonsensical Patriot Act. I'm sick of a group that has made our country live in fear. BUT, if Hillary runs....no way in HELL I'll vote for that sad case. I'd love to vote for McCain, and know lots of democrats who say the same thing.

[jaim]

Show me credible evidence that the majority of what the Bush adminstration calls insurgents are really from outside of Iraq. And you can't use the bush administration propoganda. It has to come from a different trusted source without an axe to grind. Here is a piece of evidence that backs my assertion that the insurgents are mostly Iraqi.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/xml/xht...cles/2901.html

I don't watch CNN or Fox or MSNBC or any of those crappy so called news channels. I get most of my news from the voices in my head.

My point #2 was just a piece of a much bigger problem with pulling out of Iraq. Not only will the U.S. based oil companies not get to keep those contracts, but they also won't get to keep all those juicy no-bid contracts they were awarded by the DOD. Remember it costs 1.5 Billion a week for the U.S. to occupy Iraq. The payroll for the troops there per week is like 100 Million. Where is the rest of the money being spent? Sure there are hardware maintenance costs and the like but again it wouldn't reach 1.5 Billion a week. I find it odd that the people serving the meals to the troops are making a lot more than the troops they are feeding. And if you didn't know Haliburton is the company feeding the troops.

As far as Iraq being worse if we leave. Who cares if it is. Why should we send our soldiers there to die to help people who can't and won't help themselves.

And yes Hillary running for president is a really really bad idea. The more I hear McCaine speak the less I like the guy. He is a polical animal just like most any other current congressman or senator. When he was investigating the Tom Delay ethics violations he dug up the link with Abramoff and at that point was told to stop the investigation and he did. That is just gutless and does not serve the best interest of the American people. It serves a political agenda that is self serving and that is something that needs to change throughout the polical fabric in this country.

[BDA116]

Wait.......you demand credible evidence, not "Bush administration propoganda", then you post a link to what again?
Oh yeah, a complete B.S. fact-twisting propoganda site.
What's the point in showing actual fact to an Air America listener?

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by jaim

Show me credible evidence that the majority of what the Bush adminstration calls insurgents are really from outside of Iraq.

Show me credible evidence that they are mostly Iraqis.

[jaim]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Wait.......you demand credible evidence, not "Bush administration propoganda", then you post a link to what again?
Oh yeah, a complete B.S. fact-twisting propoganda site.
What's the point in showing actual fact to an Air America listener?

I always find it amusing when folks see facts and assume they are propoganda. Some folks are just wound a bit too tight.
You need something to relax you. Here you go.

[jaim]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

Show me credible evidence that they are mostly Iraqis.

You first.