[luvtolean]

Here's the GE machine. I've been through one in SFO.

http://www.ge.com/stories/en/20216.h...ducts_Business

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

And I'll bet those that created our governmental system would agree with me.

Those same people wouldn't even recognize the modern world, so your point is, um, pointless.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

Those same people wouldn't even recognize the modern world, so your point is, um, pointless.

So I guess that means the documents they wrote, like the Constitution, are meaningless too? You know, since they weren't written for modern times.

We sure as hell act like it's meaningless nowadays.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Nope, the technology is not expensive. It's much cheaper than people. Did you know disability claims for airline screeners has gone up over 40% since federalization? Do you think that's cheap?

Fire those people. All it takes are a couple of people to watch you go through that, the metal detector and your bags through x-ray. Just like before, only one more step. That machine is fully automatic. You get in, close the door and it's a go/no go test. Far less training to operate than the x-ray.

We already are paying a "TSA tax" every time we fly. The money is there. Free it up by de-federalizing it and dumping these people who's job is meaningless.

And, in return, get something that actually works better from a enforcement standpoint.

Sounds simple...why isn't it being done already...

[luvtolean]

Because getting strip searched makes people think they're safe.

So many times I've heard, "Yeah, it's a pain, but we need it to be safe".

Are you ?

I do believe the TSA came into being out of popular demand. I just think most people don't have a clue when it comes to technology.

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

So I guess that means the documents they wrote, like the Constitution, are meaningless too? You know, since they weren't written for modern times.

Well, using your logic, I could say that had terrorists flown some planes into a couple of buildings in Philadelphia during the Constitutional Convention, our Constitution would likely be radically different than it is.

Wouldn't you agree?

[luvtolean]

Absolutely not!

Several of these men had been burying loved ones in a war to earn those rights. Terrorism wouldn't change the heart of such solid men.

[luvtolean]

Here's a list of quotes.

Originally Posted by John Quincy Adams

"Posterity - you will never know how much it has cost my generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it."

Originally Posted by Ronald Reagan

"Government can't solve the problem. Government is the problem."

An isolated case of terrorism wouldn't have changed a damn thing. It would've barely blipped up on the radar of revolutionary war era America.

[Mo Noyz]

How romantic.

As I said, the world was very different back then.

[luvtolean]

Tell me, how has the fundamental nature of man changed?

You don't think there was violence in revolutionary era America?

[phobiaphobe]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

...
You don't think there was violence in revolutionary era America?

THere was for a while until Mel Gibson single-handedly defeated the evil British empire.

[ccwilli3]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Bush is nowhere near a small government conservative. He's ballooned the size of the government, and increased spending enormously. EVEN OUTSIDE the war in Iraq/Afghanistan.

Yep. Yep. And Yep.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Because getting strip searched makes people think they're safe.

So many times I've heard, "Yeah, it's a pain, but we need it to be safe".

Are you ?

I do believe the TSA came into being out of popular demand. I just think most people don't have a clue when it comes to technology.

To those people:
"He who would trade liberty for security shall have neither"

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Tell me, how has the fundamental nature of man changed?

You're asking the wrong question here. The real question would be how has the fundamentals of warfare changed?

It's not so much that I have a problem with your originalist bent, but to refuse to acknowledge how much things have changed from those days seems rather shortsighted, IMO.

They wouldn't have fought terrorism very well lined up in a field with single shot muskets and cannonballs either.

The fundamental nature of man may not have changed very much, but the technology, power, and sophistication of delivery in warfare and/or terrorism is lightyears beyond anything they ever had to deal with.

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Here's the GE machine. I've been through one in SFO.

http://www.ge.com/stories/en/20216.h...ducts_Business

LTL, you are a moderator. Does not this qualify as hijack of BDA's thread.

I have worked for Argenbright Security at SFO prior to the TSA takeover after 9/11. Your frustration stems from the people that facilitate the screening of passengers. We've had searches then and we still have them now. The inefficiency of the current system pertains to the downfalls of the TSA setup and management of the TSA employees (quality of individuals, management of policies, etc...). Believe me, I've worked there, and I've seen it all. The people and the system hasn't really changed all that much, just more stringment and frustrating policies. I still have buddies that work there.

Each system has its shortcomings. The explosives detectors you have researched may certainly add to the current securities measures and perhaps replace the current baggage explosive detection scanners, but will not substitute searches upon detection of metal. The current explosive detectors require samples from your carry-on luggage and a slight miscalibration may set it off to require a search of your carry-on luggage. Proper management of the TSA may rectify your issues but to an extent.

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

Those same people wouldn't even recognize the modern world, so your point is, um, pointless.

I feel violated and used.

BTW, I love your avatar.

[cbr99xx]

LTL... Color me apprehensive...

Color me less than excited about our homeland security force.

Tell me that this won't happen again and I'll digress....

Tell me that whatever inconvenience you ( I say "you" because you travel way more than I) incur has any bearing on the possible loss of life saved. Hell, lay it out in mathematical terms, if you dare... .0001 life to ?

[DRider]

Originally Posted by cbr99xx

Tell me that this won't happen again and I'll digress....

Tell me that whatever inconvenience you ( I say "you" because you travel way more than I) incur has any bearing on the possible loss of life saved. Hell, lay it out in mathematical terms, if you dare... .0001 life to ?

If that ever happens again, it will be by entirely different -and an overlooked- means. Flight 93 proved that once we, as Americans, knew the motives of the terrorists, a couple of box -cutters proved hardly sufficient.

That's right, box cutters; not bombs, not guns, not a biological agent. $.99 home depot special, which in it's rectangular metal sheath probably looks just like a stick of doublemint gum to an xray machine. Those jerkoffs with fancy uniforms in front of the terminal gates didn't prevent flight 93 from being used as a guided missle, "we" did.

Even with today's heightened security, I get my 4" trimming scissors onboard; I assure you that a boxcutter would present even less of a challenge. However, do you think that would get me anywhere in a post 9/11 US? My point is that all this added security is lip service, the methods used in 9/11 will no longer work. If something similar happens, the means will be different.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by cbr99xx

LTL... Color me apprehensive...

Color me less than excited about our homeland security force.

Tell me that this won't happen again and I'll digress....

Tell me that whatever inconvenience you ( I say "you" because you travel way more than I) incur has any bearing on the possible loss of life saved. Hell, lay it out in mathematical terms, if you dare... .0001 life to ?

Man, I had a long response typed out to this and hit the stupid "back" button on the side of my mouse.

I put the TSA's chances of catching a trained terrorist at exactly 0%. But even if it's .0001%, I say that's a very poor use of resources. Better to put them to something else.

D-Rider has it spot on. Nobody is going to takeover a plane in the US and successfully use it as a weapon without killing everyone on board. Think about it, even if a guy stood up with an AK, do you think everyone would just sit there? I don't.

Planes are played out. They won. They succeeded in making Americans get on their knees, give up some of our freedoms willingly and cry in fear. They made our life more difficult. They succeeded where any superpower that has challenged us has failed. They broke a bit of our will. They coerced our government into making large changes in policy. And only because we let them.

No, next time it will be something else. Dirty bomb? Something in the water?

[luvtolean]

By the way, the TSA is only a small part of the odious (making the sounds of spitting) Patriot Act. There's plenty more to hate than just the TSA.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by DRider

If that ever happens again, it will be by entirely different -and an overlooked- means. Flight 93 proved that once we, as Americans, knew the motives of the terrorists, a couple of box -cutters proved hardly sufficient.

That's right, box cutters; not bombs, not guns, not a biological agent. $.99 home depot special, which in it's rectangular metal sheath probably looks just like a stick of doublemint gum to an xray machine. Those jerkoffs with fancy uniforms in front of the terminal gates didn't prevent flight 93 from being used as a guided missle, "we" did.

Even with today's heightened security, I get my 4" trimming scissors onboard; I assure you that a boxcutter would present even less of a challenge. However, do you think that would get me anywhere in a post 9/11 US? My point is that all this added security is lip service, the methods used in 9/11 will no longer work. If something similar happens, the means will be different.

Good post...

Personally, I think the next version will center around the ubiquitous water bottle. Just like the box cutters, they do not get even a second glance, and neither the metal detector or explosives sniffer will find them... you can walk on to a plane with as many of them as you would like...

[CBRVFR]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Good post...

Personally, I think the next version will center around the ubiquitous water bottle. Just like the box cutters, they do not get even a second glance, and neither the metal detector or explosives sniffer will find them... you can walk on to a plane with as many of them as you would like...

With a biological agent? Something flammable? I don't see how that would enable a hijack scenario..