[Mo Noyz]

This was posted at the Jazz BBS I frequent earlier this morning. Though some here would find it interesting.





During WW II, the Japanese were searching for a way to demoralize the American forces that they faced. Their psychological warfare experts came up with a message that they thought would work well.

They gave the script to their famous broadcaster, "Tokyo Rose," and every day she would broadcast this same message packaged in various ways, hoping to have an impact on American GI morale. What was the message?
It had three main points:
1. Your president is lying to you.
2. This war is illegal.
3. You cannot win the war.

Sound familiar? the Democratic Party has picked up the same message and is broadcasting it to civilians domestic and abroad, and to our troops and our enemies. The only difference is that they claim to support our troops before they demoralize them.

Come to think of it, Tokyo Rose used to tell the troops that she was on their side.

I am often struck by how similar the rhetoric from the left is to the rhetoric from our enemies. Consider this transcript of a taped al qaeda message:

http://memritv.org/Transcript.asp?P1=802 (thank you so much memri.org for keeping transcripts of all the terrorist rants aired on arab networks).

Quote:
Oh people of the West, don’t be fooled by the lies of Blair and Bush that you are free nations, for the only freedom that you have is the freedom to be slaves of your whims and desires. Your children are free to be deprived of their childhood and their innocence. Your women are free to be used as tools of business and entertainment, and all of you as a whole are the slaves of con men and women who rule you. They are your real enemies. If you only knew – they are the ones who drag your countries to the pit of America’s group of scavengers, who seek to ravage the entire globe for the interests of a handful of gangsters and corporate companies. Democracy, human rights, and freedom are all but hollow illusions, with which they tranquilize inhabitants of the human farms which they control. The Muslim world is not your backyard. The Muslim world is not Germany, Japan, or South America. The honorable sons and daughters of Islam will not sit down, watching you spread your evil and immorality and infidelity to our land. The honorable sons of Islam will not just let you kill our families in Palestine, Afghanistan, Kashmir, the Balkans, Indonesia, the Caucuses, and elsewhere. It is time for us to be equals – as you kill us, you will be killed, as you bomb us, you will be bombed.

Come on. This islamist guy with an RPG launcher on his shoulder articulates perfectly the position of the far left.

[jaim]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

This was posted at the Jazz BBS I frequent earlier this morning. Though some here would find it interesting.


During WW II, the Japanese were searching for a way to demoralize the American forces that they faced. Their psychological warfare experts came up with a message that they thought would work well.

They gave the script to their famous broadcaster, "Tokyo Rose," and every day she would broadcast this same message packaged in various ways, hoping to have an impact on American GI morale. What was the message?
It had three main points:
1. Your president is lying to you.
2. This war is illegal.
3. You cannot win the war.

There is a difference to the talk of today to stuff Tokyo Rose was saying.

1. Your president is lying to you.

2. We are not at war. Congress never declared war. The war on terror is just a phrase and even though what GW authorized wasn't illegal it wasn't the right thing to do in Iraq.

3. We have already won. We have defeated those we fought against.
Unfortunately GW's administration doesn't seem to understand you can't use military force to win a battle of ideas.

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by jaim

2. We are not at war.

So what is Iraq?

[Heavy-Dee]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

So what is Iraq?

a " peace keeping mission", or a "conflict".

duh!

[Mo Noyz]

I thought of it more as a company picnic.

[johnnycrash]

So in the last few days I've learned that:

a) the Democratic party = radical Islamic extremists
b) Bush = Einstein.

Yep - makes perfect sense to me.

[Mo Noyz]

I see.

I'm not sure where you learned those things, but let's start off nice and slow, shall we Mr. Crash?


Do you believe these three things:

1. Your president is lying to you.
2. This war is illegal.
3. You cannot win the war.

[davef]

I just don't get people who can't understand that this is WWIII and we have to win. Just look at the Muslim reaction to a silly little cartoon in a Danish newspaper. 95% death threats to Europeans and 5% boycott threats. The religion teaches to respond first with violence and second with diplomacy (only to rest so that they can rebuild thier forces.)

Mo Noyz is absolutely correct; the democrats response to this war is the same as the terrorists' and Tokyo Rose's, in her time. In fact, I feel that they are actively trying to demoralize the troops in particular and the US population in general. Too bad the present crop of liberals wasn't around during WWII to help us lose that "conflict".

[jaim]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

I thought of it more as a company picnic.

A Haliburton company picnic.

[DUX]

Originally Posted by jaim

There is a difference to the talk of today to stuff Tokyo Rose was saying.

1. Your president is lying to you.

2. We are not at war. Congress never declared war. The war on terror is just a phrase and even though what GW authorized wasn't illegal it wasn't the right thing to do in Iraq.

3. We have already won. We have defeated those we fought against.
Unfortunately GW's administration doesn't seem to understand you can't use military force to win a battle of ideas.

The one thing you have left out that I am very thankful for is that you didn't say "I support the troops."

While I encourage and fight for everyone's freedom of speech, I don't want anyone hiding behind "supporting" me when they work to tear down our country over political lines.

It is interesting that you use the phrase "your president is lying to you." Do you not consider GWB our President? Regardless of personal opinion, this country thrives on competition and co-operation. You still live here and I assume that you vote. Therefore you must agree that no matter who wins, that person is THE President until popular opinion decides otherwise in the next election.

BTW: You couldn't be more wrong about point #3. It's easy to airmchair-quarterback the situation without knowing the complete situation and what is being done that CNN doesn't know about or care to report.

In addition, if I don't respond to any replies tomorrow it isn't b/c I'm not interested in the topic anymore. It's b/c I have to go in on a Sunday and ensure my squadron is set to defend your right to keep posting here.

[kinkeringkong]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

Come to think of it, Tokyo Rose used to tell the troops that she was on their side.

She was on the side of the U.S. I saw a documentary about her on the History Channel. She would read the script given to her, but it would be in a sarcastic way so no one would take the message seriously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Rose

[jaim]

Originally Posted by DUX

The one thing you have left out that I am very thankful for is that you didn't say "I support the troops."

While I encourage and fight for everyone's freedom of speech, I don't want anyone hiding behind "supporting" me when they work to tear down our country over political lines.

It is interesting that you use the phrase "your president is lying to you." Do you not consider GWB our President? Regardless of personal opinion, this country thrives on competition and co-operation. You still live here and I assume that you vote. Therefore you must agree that no matter who wins, that person is THE President until popular opinion decides otherwise in the next election.

BTW: You couldn't be more wrong about point #3. It's easy to airmchair-quarterback the situation without knowing the complete situation and what is being done that CNN doesn't know about or care to report.

In addition, if I don't respond to any replies tomorrow it isn't b/c I'm not interested in the topic anymore. It's b/c I have to go in on a Sunday and ensure my squadron is set to defend your right to keep posting here.

The troops fighting in Iraq or in Afghanistan in no way ensure my rights in this country. Actually I am not sure what is being fought for in those countries. We have been lied to so many times as to why we are sending our troops to fight I am not sure of the reason. If you have a justification that works for you then great. Maybe you can enlighten the rest of us.

If you really are in the military and are actually in combat then take care and keep your head down. I support your rights to join the military and go fight where ever our government tells you. But I do not support our government in their current decision to send and keep you folks to fighting in Iraq.

GW is not my president. I did not vote for him and I do not believe he deserved to be president in 2000. But that is old news and we have to deal with the here and now. GW is the president of this country and I am a citizen of this country. So technically he is my president. But I have the right to disagree with him and have the right to actually say it. As for our country being torn down you can thank our current administration for that. They hold the majory in both houses, have the white house and the supreme court. If you should blame anyone for the state of the union you have to blame the president.

[synergy]

Concerning our system, the USA, I would have to say that with any amount of hard work, anyone can live comfortably and choose their occupation or life's work without interference. How can you fault a system that produces these kinds of results? The only thing our system needs to work on is training people in authoritztive positions (managers) on how to make their employees feel happy and empowered.

[DUX]

Originally Posted by jaim

The troops fighting in Iraq or in Afghanistan in no way ensure my rights in this country. Actually I am not sure what is being fought for in those countries. We have been lied to so many times as to why we are sending our troops to fight I am not sure of the reason. If you have a justification that works for you then great. Maybe you can enlighten the rest of us.

If you really are in the military and are actually in combat then take care and keep your head down. I support your rights to join the military and go fight where ever our government tells you. But I do not support our government in their current decision to send and keep you folks to fighting in Iraq.

GW is not my president. I did not vote for him and I do not believe he deserved to be president in 2000. But that is old news and we have to deal with the here and now. GW is the president of this country and I am a citizen of this country. So technically he is my president. But I have the right to disagree with him and have the right to actually say it. As for our country being torn down you can thank our current administration for that. They hold the majory in both houses, have the white house and the supreme court. If you should blame anyone for the state of the union you have to blame the president.

Jaim,

We've established in other discussions that we probably won't ever agree.

I support and encourage others opinions, including yours. All I ask is that you see the big picture and get the facts. It just seems that you attack this administration simply b/c it is Republican.

GWB is our president just like Clinton was before him. The house is Republican for a reason. The people voted them into office. Partisan politics has been around since the very beginning and in some ways it's healthy. In other ways it can be very destructive. There are ways to oppose without stooping to some of the levels that have been reached recently.

Take Cindy Sheehan's recent stunt. Do you really think that the Congressperson who gave her the ticket cared as much about Cindy and her pain as she did the embarassment that interrupting the State of the Union would cause the President? She has been shamelessly played by the Dems on multiple occasions.

I support what we're doing and the majority of our nations current policies. That support comes about from staying informed, listening, and forming my own opinions. I don't blindly follow b/c of what party I support.

Good health to ya. Being able to have this kind of discussion is something that a lot of people take for granted.

Lunch is over...back to work.

[jaim]

Originally Posted by DUX

Jaim,

We've established in other discussions that we probably won't ever agree.

I support and encourage others opinions, including yours. All I ask is that you see the big picture and get the facts. It just seems that you attack this administration simply b/c it is Republican.

If you think that then you haven't been reading my posts. I speak out against the current administration because they are the most corrupt administration I can remember and seem to be the worst in history. Cronyism runs rampent. There is very little effort to do the right thing only to do things to make the opposing party look bad and instead of helping the citizens of this country they seem more interested in helping their corporate buddies. I would speak out against Democrats too if/when they pull the same crap. Clinton was no buddy of mine.

Originally Posted by DUX

GWB is our president just like Clinton was before him. The house is Republican for a reason. The people voted them into office. Partisan politics has been around since the very beginning and in some ways it's healthy. In other ways it can be very destructive. There are ways to oppose without stooping to some of the levels that have been reached recently.

Which ways are those? Just sitting back and hoping things get better isn't the way. Standing up and saying something is. In fact that IS the American way.

Originally Posted by DUX

Take Cindy Sheehan's recent stunt. Do you really think that the Congressperson who gave her the ticket cared as much about Cindy and her pain as she did the embarassment that interrupting the State of the Union would cause the President? She has been shamelessly played by the Dems on multiple occasions.

If the president can't take the fact that the emperor has no clothes then he should change his tailor. Not take away the people who point it out.

Originally Posted by DUX

I support what we're doing and the majority of our nations current policies. That support comes about from staying informed, listening, and forming my own opinions. I don't blindly follow b/c of what party I support.

Good health to ya. Being able to have this kind of discussion is something that a lot of people take for granted.

Lunch is over...back to work.

You are right, we will probably never agree. But take care and hope to arque with you in the near future.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

Do you believe these three things:

1. Your president is lying to you.
2. This war is illegal.
3. You cannot win the war.

1. Yes
2. No, but it did set a new precedent for the country.
3. Define a "win". Bush has never defined what a win is. Calling this the "war on terror" is pretty ambiguous.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by synergy

The only thing our system needs to work on is training people in authoritztive positions (managers) on how to make their employees feel happy and empowered.

I have this REM song in my head...."Happy shiny people holding hands..." (or however the lyrics go)

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

1. Yes
2. No, but it did set a new precedent for the country.
3. Define a "win". Bush has never defined what a win is. Calling this the "war on terror" is pretty ambiguous.

1. Fair enough. He actually has bent the truth in the past. But I don't think he was lying about anything that led up to the war in Iraq. It comes back to faulty intel. The real question is whether the intel was faulty when it was gathered, reported, or presented to Congress.

Depending on how the dreaded "phase II" proceeds, we may one day know the answer to that question.


2. How so?


3. An outstanding point. No, Bush has never defined the parameters of what a "win" would be. And I don't think that this can truly be considered part of the war on terror. Indirectly, possibly.

I believe that it already has been won, for the most part. Hussein has been removed from power, and they have had free elections where the Kurds, Shia, AND Sunni all showed up in force at the ballot box.

There is still work to be done, especially concerning infrastructure. Plus, there is still a lot of shooting going on as well in four of the 18 provinces. Properly training and arming the local military and law enforcement is a must. A must that is oddly running way behind.

Of course, I'm here, and Iraq is over there. So I can only give you a shallow response based upon what horribly little knowledge any of us have about how things are going over there.

[jaim]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

3. An outstanding point. No, Bush has never defined the parameters of what a "win" would be.

I think he has
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/....accomplished/