No More Military Funeral Protests

seamus · 05-31-2006, 12:25 AM

It's a start.

Quote:

Bush Signs Measure To Prevent Protests At Military Funerals

Violators could face jail time

By Nedra Pickler, Associated Press
ARLINGTON, Va. -- President Bush passed a startling sign on his Memorial Day drive into the burial grounds for thousands of military dead -- ``Thank God for dead soldiers," it read. Bush took action yesterday in hopes that no more families see similar sentiments when they bury loved ones who died in the war.
Bush signed the Respect for America's Fallen Heroes Act, which was passed by Congress in response to the activities of a Kansas church group that has staged protests at military funerals around the country. The group said the deaths symbolized God's anger at US tolerance of homosexuals, and their actions sparked outrage among grieving families and lawmakers.
The new law bars protests within 300 feet of the entrance of a national cemetery and within 150 feet of a road into the cemetery. This restriction applies an hour before until an hour after a funeral. Those violating the act would face up to a $100,000 fine and up to a year in prison.
After signing the bill, Bush headed to Arlington National Cemetery for a ceremony to honor war dead. Since it was not a funeral, the protesters were free to speak their minds and did so -- a small group held antigay signs near the entrance as Bush's motorcade drove by.
Across the street, a few people from the Washington, D.C., chapter of FreeRepublic.com, a self-styled grass-roots conservative group, held signs supporting US troops. A large sign held by several people read , ``God bless our troops, defenders of freedom, American heroes."
Their message fit the theme of the day, as Bush set a large wreath in front of the Tomb of the Unknowns and then said the nation must continue fighting the war on terrorism in the name of those have already given their life in the cause.
``The best way to pay respect is to value why a sacrifice was made," Bush said, quoting from a letter Lieutenant Mark H. Dooley wrote to his parents before being killed in September in the Iraqi city of Ramadi.
Noting that some 270 fighting men and women of the nearly 2,500 who have fallen since the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, are buried at Arlington National Cemetery, Bush said, ``We have seen the costs in the war on terror that we fight today."
``I am in awe of the men and women who sacrifice for the freedom of the United States of America," the president declared, drawing a long standing ovation from the troops, families of the fallen, and others gathered at the cemetery's 5,000-seat white marble amphitheater.
The nation can best honor the dead by ``defeating the terrorists.. . . and by laying the foundation for a generation of peace," Bush said.

BDA116 · 05-31-2006, 12:29 AM

How about amnesty for private citizens that help enforce this law?

navydevildoc · 05-31-2006, 12:33 AM

I am really torn up about this... I am a very loud proponent of the First Ammendment, so that side of me would like to have the protesters saying what they want where they want.

But, the side of me that is a CAR wearing veteran that has had friends die in combat would LOVE to see thoses assholes show up at a funeral I was at.

The cost of freedom of speech is that you have to put up with the morons speaking.

In this particular case however, I think I would let the 1st ammendment take a seat.

sheepofblue · 05-31-2006, 12:35 AM

Regardless of your beliefs those people are an abomination. To actually say that the death of someones child/husband/wife/parent/friend was a good thing is the height of callousness (and ignorance in this case). To use a families moment of grief and reflection to your own advantage is an act of opportunism that is below others. I believe that when the day comes judgement for these slime it will be far worse than the judgements they have made. For even a merciful judgement would be bad.

G-Force Junkie · 05-31-2006, 12:41 AM

And a little more of our freedoms are chipped away.

Moving to Politics...

sheepofblue · 05-31-2006, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Force Junkie

And a little more of our freedoms are chipped away.

Moving to Politics...

You can't yell fire in a theater either. This is very similar. The maggots can still protest just not in a way that harms others. Like someone yell fire in a theater (falsely) the goal here is to harm the families and thus get attention.

BDA116 · 05-31-2006, 1:22 AM

This isn't anywhere NEAR the attack on the First that the abomination called McCain-Feingold is. That is a whole load of bullshit that Congress wrote up, passed and the President signed.
Complete and total gagging of the freedom of speech.
This is merely a protection of respect for those that earned it for a very brief period of time.

G-Force Junkie · 05-31-2006, 1:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

You can't yell fire in a theater either. This is very similar. The maggots can still protest just not in a way that harms others. Like someone yell fire in a theater (falsely) the goal here is to harm the families and thus get attention.

Apples and oranges. One can cause imediate physical harm and death to occupants. The other can only hurt feelings. I weap for this country if you think a sign that says "You suck" is the same as instigating a mass stamped resulting in deaths.

phobiaphobe · 05-31-2006, 1:44 AM

So the deceased and their families are only protected if they were a soldier?

I see that as a gateway law... making room for worse.

Mattress · 05-31-2006, 1:52 AM

They should be allowed to protest, but there should be a law allowing people to kick their asses too

jaim · 05-31-2006, 5:30 AM

Interesting. Bush championed and signed a law that adversely effects the idiots who voted for him. In the 2004 presidential campaign Bush used gay marriage and other gay issues as a scare tactic to garner votes for himself. Yet here he is dissing the very people he was campaigning to. Bush is a douch bag. And doubly so for chipping away at our constitutional rights. What's next? No protestors or egg throwing along the route taken by a newly elected president to his/her inauguration.

Baketech · 05-31-2006, 8:12 AM

Before jaim drags this thread off topic, let's give it a shot at staying on track...

I'll wager that the majority of the "voting" public does not see the Fred Phelps protest as even being a free speech issue. I'll further wager that they see they do not see the Fallen Heroe's Act as either an erosion of rights or even a gateway to same.

I'm guessing the opinion of the voting public is that it is an appropriate countermeasure to Mr. Phelp's tactics...

gthotchkiss · 05-31-2006, 8:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

Before jaim drags this thread off topic, let's give it a shot at staying on track...

I'll wager that the majority of the "voting" public does not see the Fred Phelps protest as even being a free speech issue. I'll further wager that they see they do not see the Fallen Heroe's Act as either an erosion of rights or even a gateway to same.

I'm guessing the opinion of the voting public is that it is an appropriate countermeasure to Mr. Phelp's tactics...

I dont see it as a free speech issue, and it is an apporopriate countermeasure... enought to get the point across, but definate limitations just to provide respect to our military's families!

Mojave954 · 05-31-2006, 8:24 AM

[quote=navydevildoc]I am really torn up about this... I am a very loud proponent of the First Ammendment, so that side of me would like to have the protesters saying what they want where they want. [quote]

Not being repressed IMO, just take it somewhere else.

This is a good thing.

Baketech · 05-31-2006, 8:35 AM

Just out of curiosity, how many have seen a Fred Phelps protest....or even a video of one...

Mojave954 · 05-31-2006, 8:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

Just out of curiosity, how many have seen a Fred Phelps protest....or even a video of one...

Just on TV, which we know would never sensationalize or over state the truth. And there was that dumbass bitch from his "flock" on fox.

Edit: too me the issue isn't just about military funerals but, any funeral. Things are bad enough for the survivors they don't need this madman's brainwashed flock, or others like them, bringing this type of crap to their world at this time.

sheepofblue · 05-31-2006, 9:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

Before jaim drags this thread off topic, let's give it a shot at staying on track...

I'll wager that the majority of the "voting" public does not see the Fred Phelps protest as even being a free speech issue. I'll further wager that they see they do not see the Fallen Heroe's Act as either an erosion of rights or even a gateway to same.

I'm guessing the opinion of the voting public is that it is an appropriate countermeasure to Mr. Phelp's tactics...

sheepofblue · 05-31-2006, 9:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

Just out of curiosity, how many have seen a Fred Phelps protest....or even a video of one...

Listened to the radio with him and a retired military member on the show once. He sounded as bad as I expected (really impressed by the other fellow though, his class and restraint deserves praise)

luvtolean · 05-31-2006, 9:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

Before jaim drags this thread off topic, let's give it a shot at staying on track...

I'll wager that the majority of the "voting" public does not see the Fred Phelps protest as even being a free speech issue. I'll further wager that they see they do not see the Fallen Heroe's Act as either an erosion of rights or even a gateway to same.

I'm guessing the opinion of the voting public is that it is an appropriate countermeasure to Mr. Phelp's tactics...

But how much of the public complained about McCain-Feingold, the Patriot Act, etc etc.

Look how many people on this site say "I'm not important" when you point out very serious privacy issues.

A very small minority in this country even know their Constitutional rights, a smaller minority are vocal about protecting them...much less understanding the trampling Bush and his Congress have done to them.

I do however agree, it was Bush and a Republican party concerned about midterm elections pandering for votes.

I think Mattress had the best solution.

Baketech · 05-31-2006, 10:20 AM

Thank you...

So know the question really becomes this:

If the majority of the voting public feels that way, isn't the system working as designed? In other words, aren't they being represented according to their beliefs?

Purpdust · 05-31-2006, 12:40 PM

Double post.. oops

nhfirefighter13 · 05-31-2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

The group said the deaths symbolized God's anger at US...

Hmm, seems to me that all of the radical Muslim extremists use similar excuses to use terrorism and violence against the citizens of this Country.

Purpdust · 05-31-2006, 12:44 PM

There is a time and a place for protesting, The family should not have to hear this while they are morning.
I also like the new rule Canada has placed that does not allow Media to cover the arrival of fallen Soldiers. This way the Family can receive the body and not have to worry that there are 100 cameras watching them morn. BTW the media is allowed to oversee the Departure ceremony. I feel this is a great compromise

esoteric · 05-31-2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

So know the question really becomes this:
If the majority of the voting public feels that way, isn't the system working as designed? In other words, aren't they being represented according to their beliefs?

Mechanically yes, ideally no. While opinions on non-factual matters may never be right or wrong, I continue to maintain that an uninformed opinion is essentially valueless even if it happens to coincide with a highly informed opinion.

Baketech · 05-31-2006, 1:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esoteric

Mechanically yes, ideally no. While opinions on non-factual matters may never be right or wrong, I continue to maintain that an uninformed opinion is essentially valueless even if it happens to coincide with a highly informed opinion.

So their vote shouldn't count because you subjectively feel that your vote is more "informed"...

So in this idealistic situation, who decides what is "informed", and what isn't?

esoteric · 05-31-2006, 1:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

So their vote shouldn't count because you subjectively feel that your vote is more "informed"...

So in this idealistic situation, who decides what is "informed", and what isn't?

I never said my vote counted any differently, that my opinion was better, or that I was more informed

onevcs · 05-31-2006, 1:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-Force Junkie

Apples and oranges. One can cause imediate physical harm and death to occupants. The other can only hurt feelings. I weap for this country if you think a sign that says "You suck" is the same as instigating a mass stamped resulting in deaths.

I'm torn on this one

but a sign like that at that particular moment might cause something worst than an stampede from memeber of the affected family and friends.

I think there are compromises available that could be much more appropiate.

Like protesting out of sight of the family at all times.

onevcs · 05-31-2006, 1:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purpdust

There is a time and a place for protesting, The family should not have to hear this while they are morning.
I also like the new rule Canada has placed that does not allow Media to cover the arrival of fallen Soldiers. This way the Family can receive the body and not have to worry that there are 100 cameras watching them morn. BTW the media is allowed to oversee the Departure ceremony. I feel this is a great compromise

Baketech · 05-31-2006, 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by esoteric

I never said my vote counted any differently, that my opinion was better, or that I was more informed

Nor did I accuse you of saying that...I merely asked if you thought it should.

seamus · 05-31-2006, 2:28 PM

A sign that says Thank God for dead soldiers at a funeral is not a protest. It's harrassment. If I showed up at your child's funeral with a sign that said,

So what? G-Force Jr was a piece of **** and the world is better off without him.

What are you going to do? Are you going to say "Hey, it's free speech"? You can lie to yourself and say it's free speech.

We don't have that ability. The leaders that you elected (I didn't vote in 04) sent me somewhere I didn't want to be to do something I didn't want to do. Your harassment of me, a Soldier, is doing exactly what you want it to do. You harass me, you incite violence.

The protests at funerals are a coward's actions. It's choosing the easy wrong because the hard right is too hard.