[navydevildoc]

Wouldn't you know it, as if the immigration debate wasn't enough to get voters worked up, the tried-and-true standby of Gay Marriage is being brought out and paraded around.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/....ap/index.html

How convienient that here in California we have our Primary Election on Tuesday.

[luvtolean]

Every other year this suddenly becomes the most important thing in the world.

Nukes in Iran, a monster deficit at home, energy prices out of control, a progressive loss of privacy rights...and we get sidetracked by the "gay issue".

Politicians must love it, easy, familiar questions with wrote answers.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by navydevildoc

Wouldn't you know it, as if the immigration debate wasn't enough to get voters worked up, the tried-and-true standby of Gay Marriage is being brought out and paraded around.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/06/....ap/index.html

How convienient that here in California we have our Primary Election on Tuesday.

He is dragging it up because he is in disagreement with most conservatives on immigration with his support for amnesty (or bananas). This is a rather ham handed attempt which will backfire.

[seamus]

It's funny but you can't just blame the politicians. If Americans really wanted to hear problems and potential solutions to them, they'd force the issue at all of these debates.

We, as a nation, don't really want to hear about all the bad things that happen in our country and around the world. Until the problem lands within our borders.

Besides, what ever happened to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

He is dragging it up because he is in disagreement with most conservatives on immigration with his support for amnesty (or bananas). This is a rather ham handed attempt which will backfire.

Of course it will.

What I really don't understand is, why would he dust this off?

Does Bush believe the majority of conservatives support this outrageous idea?

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by seamus

It's funny but you can't just blame the politicians. If Americans really wanted to hear problems and potential solutions to them, they'd force the issue at all of these debates.

We, as a nation, don't really want to hear about all the bad things that happen in our country and around the world. Until the problem lands within our borders.

Well said.

[navydevildoc]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Does Bush believe the majority of conservatives support this outrageous idea?

In a short word, yes.

[luvtolean]

Intuitively maybe...or maybe it's smoke and mirrors.

Last time this came up to give everyone something to talk about on the news, I'd say there were less problems in the country.

We were at war, but the economy was doing better than it is now, which makes most people more passive.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Of course it will.

What I really don't understand is, why would he dust this off?

Does Bush believe the majority of conservatives support this outrageous idea?

Yes, however I think he grossly over estimates the priority they assign. He is desperate because he, the Republican Senate and to a lesser extent the Republican House have been dumping on their base. They are spending like fools and for 2 of 3 taking a position on immigration opposed by most of those that put them in office. Rather than change course they are trying BS to mask the problem

[luvtolean]

Yep, I just read that allegedly the Republicans believe they could lose the house.

To be honest, I very much hope they do. They absolutely deserve the punishment...hopefully it will serve as a wakeup call.

[CBRVFR]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Every other year this suddenly becomes the most important thing in the world.

Nukes in Iran, a monster deficit at home, energy prices out of control, a progressive loss of privacy rights...and we get sidetracked by the "gay issue".

Politicians must love it, easy, familiar questions with wrote answers.

Not quite. Politicians, politicized religious "leaders," and advocacy groups, love this issue because it is a visceral, proven money-raiser. Period.

Want campaign finance control that passes the first amendment smell test?

Don't give any political party or PAC any more money, ever again. Starve the sons of bitches. ALL of 'em, from the NRA to the ACLU the Sierra Club to the AARP and especially the DNC and the RNC not to mention ANYBODY on any side of the abortion issue. Pass it on.

If you believe in a particular candidate, contribute to that person's campaign directly. But all of those other groups regularly, intentionally, and cynically use lies and fear against other American citizens to raise money, regardless of the damage it does to our society. Don't think you need them to sustain your rights. That's OUR job.

[luvtolean]

I don't belong anymore, mainly because they mock Californians more than they help, but without the NRA...there would be practically nobody defending the second amendment.

If the ACLU were to be in favor of protecting the second amendment...I'd be a seriously proud card carrying member. But since they are basically opposed to it judging by past actions, they don't get my money either.

[sheepofblue]

Lobbyists are just groups of citizens The real issue is that politicains have figured out they can buy votes with your money and citizens have figured out that they can vote themselves a raise. Unfortunately a lot of people in both groups are so morally corrupt that they are acting on the knowledge

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Lobbyists are just groups of citizens The real issue is that politicains have figured out they can buy votes with your money and citizens have figured out that they can vote themselves a raise.

You mean like lowering taxes as you increase spending and are at war?

[Heavy-Dee]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Nukes in Iran, a monster deficit at home, energy prices out of control, a progressive loss of privacy rights...and we get sidetracked by the "gay issue".

I would have said gay "issue". MEaning I can't believe people waste brain power on this.

HD

[Heavy-Dee]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Lobbyists are just groups of citizens

Groups or singular individuals that make a living out of "working" a cause. Is it okay to sell your soul?

I'm in class w/ a lobyist. Nice guy; smart. Sounds like he has a very interesting job. I can't speak to how he picks and chooses what clients he takes on or not, but I know that *I* would be pretty picky.

HD

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

You mean like lowering taxes as you increase spending and are at war?

lowering taxes INCREASED revenue. The issue is out of control spending not taxation. Now the war is some of the increase but check the increase in non-DoD spending and you will gag. A good example was the highway bacon bill with the bridge to nowhere and MANY other projects that were as worthless. Or look into the give aways that happened after New Orleans (granted some of the spending was totally correct).

[luvtolean]

So say you. I've also seen people say revenue increased simply because the economy grew. (here comes the, "it grew because taxes dropped" guys)

Lowering taxes during a time of war, while increasing spending at home is plain stupid. Yes, I've looked at both Sheep.

I don't care if the spending is worthless. Nor do I argue that.

I don't want to hear about taxes dropping unless spending is dropping. It is simple vote buying when the government does this.

No politician should be able to drop taxes without cutting spending, nor increase handouts (like perscription pills) without increasing taxes. Both are vote buying ploys that the future generations will pay for.

[sheepofblue]

Actually I want spending cuts AND tax cuts before I call it acceptable. One of the more interesting proposals is to have all departments sunset in 5 years that way they must be reauthorized rather than canceled.

[luvtolean]

Sure. Me too.

But I want spending cuts first, not tax cuts.

If you lose your job, what do you do, keep blowing money on your platinum card, or quit spending money?