[esoteric]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13105209/from/RS.3/
"
“We are not trying to do anything bad,” said Sergio Guitierrez, 35, an illegal immigrant from Mexico who sells IDs. “Immigrants just need to work.”
“This is the government’s fault,” said Maria Zuniga, 55, an illegal immigrant from Honduras who sells and transports documents. “They won’t even give us a number to work or a driver’s license.”
"
Blaming the system for their own crimes... get rid of them.

[navydevildoc]

Ummm.... this is fine with me. They are going to get taxes witheld, but they will never be able to file for a return. This means we get it all.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by navydevildoc

Ummm.... this is fine with me. They are going to get taxes witheld, but they will never be able to file for a return. This means we get it all.

Until they get amnesty. Then they can get on the dole and earn more with no work. Oh and bring relatives to do the same.

And again I will mention that you think it good to deny someone thier rights so you can prosper Send them home, bring limited workers in on legal work visas while applying pressure to governments to change their corrupt ways (Mexico). In the long run we will wind up with a better neighborhood and everyone (here and there) will be better off.

[tuffy6969]

You can't talk like that Sheep...unless you are from a border state. You have no idea of the political and economical destruction these people are doing to the border states. Emergency rooms are PACKED with illegals. They are required by law to treat them while AMERICANS with INSURANCE sit in the waiting room. Lupe and her illegal parents are there for a skinned knee. Illegals are clogging our prisons, our schools, and our ER's. They cost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS a year. And for what????.....cheap labor??? We can use prisoners! Force them to work for a lighter sentence.

I have NOTHING against good, hard-working Mexicans. Many of my closest friends are hispanic. HOWEVER - they are LEGAL and they pay their taxes. The speak English and they ask for NOTHING.

Just wait - you Southerners are getting ready to taste it too. They're heading your way - you'll soon find out and your tune will change.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by tuffy6969

You can't talk like that Sheep...unless you are from a border state. You have no idea of the political and economical destruction these people are doing to the border states. Emergency rooms are PACKED with illegals. They are required by law to treat them while AMERICANS with INSURANCE sit in the waiting room. Lupe and her illegal parents are there for a skinned knee. Illegals are clogging our prisons, our schools, and our ER's. They cost HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS a year. And for what????.....cheap labor??? We can use prisoners! Force them to work for a lighter sentence.

I have NOTHING against good, hard-working Mexicans. Many of my closest friends are hispanic. HOWEVER - they are LEGAL and they pay their taxes. The speak English and they ask for NOTHING.

Just wait - you Southerners are getting ready to taste it too. They're heading your way - you'll soon find out and your tune will change.

I am pro wall and want illegal entry to be a felony (2nd attempt). I think employers should have a way to verify status and then be punished if they fail to do so. I think the government should be using discrepancies in SS# to go get and deport people. I think proof of legal status should be required for attendance of school. I think hospitals should treat illegals then be required report them for deportation.

My comment on exploitation is simply that some folks that are for leaving things alone just want the cheap slave labor. They are not a lot different in principal than the slave owners of the south were. The greed and disrespect for others will yield similar damage in the long run.

[tuffy6969]

Agreed......well....mostly! I like your deportation idea.

[Hammer]

I used to live and work in the south, this is not a new problem at all. I was working in Conroe Tx. and had to start a new operation up there (about 30 man apperation), where do you get the people. This was back around 95 or 96 if memory serves me right. I looked and could not find american workers that wanted to work at all. The mexicans I ended up hiring were good workers, was early to show up for work and was already trained in the industry. Sheep there is a program already in place to try and keep illeagals out, as an employeer you have to fill out an I-9 form which the potential employee has to provide atleast 2 forms of identification. The I-9's are sent in to the government and they are supposed to double check the records. I once was filling out an I-9 form and asked him for his Green Card he pulled out his wallet and held out 8 Green Cardsand his responce was "Pick One". The mexicans have been forging documents for years. How is an employeer to be certial that an Immigrant is totally legal, we have no access to the goverment data or nothing else at our disposal for verification purposes. An immigrant hands you documentation and have no way to verify if it is ligit or not.

Tuffy I understand you part about border towns, Americans are the minority there. And even up here in Indiana it is getting worse.

[CBRVFR]

Correction, Hammer:

The government requires the employer to file the I-9's, they don't want to see them until they come in to inspect to see if you've got them. And if you don't, the big badass feds will fine you $ 100 per day per employee, because it's much easier to hassle employers than to secure the ******* borders, which is one of the few things they're SUPPOSED to do.

[nedro]

Hammer, where did you look for employees? Your limiting yourself when all you do is pull up to a Home Depot and unhitch the tail gate.

[tuffy6969]

Tuffy I understand you part about border towns, Americans are the minority there. And even up here in Indiana it is getting worse.[/quote]


Well....we are getting sick and tired of these absolute LEACHES on society. They're frauding every government agency across the board. These agencies (i.e. welfare, social services, county hospitals, etc..) were designed for AMERICANS that need assistance to get back on their feet. I understand that there are peopl of ALL races that cheat the system...however, it makes me MORE angry that illegal immigrants are doing it. They are NOT the immigrants of the past (i.e. Europe, Asia) that came here, learned the language, busted their asses, and made our country great. They (illegals from Mexico and Central America) are here to suck off the system, grab anything they can get for free, commit crimes and other illegal acts. Not all of them...but 75% of them.

Those borders HAVE GOT TO CLOSE.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by nedro

Hammer, where did you look for employees? Your limiting yourself when all you do is pull up to a Home Depot and unhitch the tail gate.

Nedro, you have no clue as to the industry I am in. Just for your information, at that time I was a General Foreman for a line clearance company, clearing the vegitation from the power lines.

Where do you get I go to Home depot to get employees?

I used the local paper, unemployent office, word of mouth, etc ...with no results. Have you ever tried to hire an american in a laborer position? Probably not buy your responce.

I ended up stealing 18 mexicans from the competition that were working on a neighboring utility system.

Since you have all the answers, tell us "Great One", How should we be hiring employees to get the job done?

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by tuffy6969

Tuffy I understand you part about border towns, Americans are the minority there. And even up here in Indiana it is getting worse.

Well....we are getting sick and tired of these absolute LEACHES on society. They're frauding every government agency across the board. These agencies (i.e. welfare, social services, county hospitals, etc..) were designed for AMERICANS that need assistance to get back on their feet. I understand that there are peopl of ALL races that cheat the system...however, it makes me MORE angry that illegal immigrants are doing it. They are NOT the immigrants of the past (i.e. Europe, Asia) that came here, learned the language, busted their asses, and made our country great. They (illegals from Mexico and Central America) are here to suck off the system, grab anything they can get for free, commit crimes and other illegal acts. Not all of them...but 75% of them.

Those borders HAVE GOT TO CLOSE. [/quote]

I could not agree with you more, but where do you think they learned to F*** the system? It is our own doings that teach them how to slide by. Not to say that "You personally" taught them how, but the slackers and dodgers that are americans have alot to do with the fall of out welfare/SS/medical system and are passing the information on. Monkey see, Monkey do.

I think that the military should start shooting illegals that try to cross over. It would not take long before the word got out that they are not welcome here unless they go through the proper channels.

[tuffy6969]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Well....we are getting sick and tired of these absolute LEACHES on society. They're defrauding every government agency across the board. These agencies (i.e. welfare, social services, county hospitals, etc..) were designed for AMERICANS that need assistance to get back on their feet. I understand that there are people of ALL races that cheat the system...however, it makes me MORE angry that illegal immigrants are doing it. They are NOT the immigrants of the past (i.e. Europe, Asia) that came here, learned the language, busted their asses, and made our country great. They (illegals from Mexico and Central America) are here to suck off the system, grab anything they can get for free, commit crimes and other illegal acts. Not all of them...but 75% of them.

Those borders HAVE GOT TO CLOSE.

I think that the military should start shooting illegals that try to cross over. It would not take long before the word got out that they are not welcome here unless they go through the proper channels.[/quote]

I agree with you Hammer! Unfortunately we need to do what Germany use to do....they had guards shoot or severely injure "immigrants". After a while - they stopped trying.

You are also right that they learned from lazy Americans. HOWEVER - the lazy American is an AMERICAN. If illegal immigrants want to "cheat the system" - they need to cheat their OWN system. This is NOT their country and they have ZERO, NADA coming to them. NOTHING. We owe that 3rd world country NOTHING. They owe everything to US. We stand by while MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars are illegally funneled to Mexico's economy by illegal aliens. It's bull sh** and I am speaking for 80% of America.

There's going to come a day when the Americans are going to get fed up....and then we're going to have civil war. All because our great elected officials on BOTH sides refuse to enforce the law. What part of ILLEGAL do they AND the immigrants not understand? I learned that word in 2nd grade.

fu**!!!!

[CBRVFR]

Originally Posted by tuffy6969

IUnfortunately we need to do what Germany use to do....they had guards shoot or severely injure "immigrants". After a while - they stopped trying.

You are also right that they learned from lazy Americans. HOWEVER - the lazy American is an AMERICAN. If illegal immigrants want to "cheat the system" - they need to cheat their OWN system. This is NOT their country and they have ZERO, NADA coming to them. NOTHING. We owe that 3rd world country NOTHING. They owe everything to US. We stand by while MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of dollars are illegally funneled to Mexico's economy by illegal aliens. It's bull sh** and I am speaking for 80% of America.

No doubt the situation needs to be fixed and that the border states cannot afford to care for these people that the federal government is failing to keep out. That doesn't mean the majority of these people are lazy, or criminals, or trying to get anything but an opportunity to earn a living for their families.

In what way is a lazy, welfare cheating AMERICAN superior to a Latin American who risks his life to get here, takes as many jobs ( that the aforementioned lazyass AMERICAN will not take under any circumstances) as he can sustain, and lives underground,\ in fear so he can send a few bucks back home?

The "MILLIONS AND MILLIONS" of dollars these people are "funneling" to their relatives is a ****ing pittance compared to the BILLIONS of dollars being spent by AMERICANS on illegal drugs to the same countries.

If you ever catch yourself saying that this country ought to do ANYTHING that Germany does or did, it's time for you to chill out and do some reading.

Again, the problem does not lie with these people, it lies with your government.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by Hammer

I used to live and work in the south, this is not a new problem at all. I was working in Conroe Tx. and had to start a new operation up there (about 30 man apperation), where do you get the people. This was back around 95 or 96 if memory serves me right. I looked and could not find american workers that wanted to work at all. The mexicans I ended up hiring were good workers, was early to show up for work and was already trained in the industry. Sheep there is a program already in place to try and keep illeagals out, as an employeer you have to fill out an I-9 form which the potential employee has to provide atleast 2 forms of identification. The I-9's are sent in to the government and they are supposed to double check the records. I once was filling out an I-9 form and asked him for his Green Card he pulled out his wallet and held out 8 Green Cardsand his responce was "Pick One". The mexicans have been forging documents for years. How is an employeer to be certial that an Immigrant is totally legal, we have no access to the goverment data or nothing else at our disposal for verification purposes. An immigrant hands you documentation and have no way to verify if it is ligit or not.

Tuffy I understand you part about border towns, Americans are the minority there. And even up here in Indiana it is getting worse.

BZZZZZ when he held out 8 YOU were breaking the law by knowingly hiring an illegal. Of course I agree that in most OTHER cases the government is the problem not the employer. That is why I said they need to provide a method for the employers to check and verify. Also labor shortages lead to two things higher wages AND innovation. The cotton gin was invented to reduce the cost of human labor. This has occurred over and over to everyones benefit. When wages are low the need to innovate is also low. Of course as far as your laborer question, we are paying them to stay home on the dole. This exact same thing would happen with the hard working folks you mention if they are given legal residence

[CBRVFR]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

BZZZZZ when he held out 8 YOU were breaking the law by knowingly hiring an illegal. Of course I agree that in most OTHER cases the government is the problem not the employer. That is why I said they need to provide a method for the employers to check and verify. Also labor shortages lead to two things higher wages AND innovation. The cotton gin was invented to reduce the cost of human labor. This has occurred over and over to everyones benefit. When wages are low the need to innovate is also low. Of course as far as your laborer question, we are paying them to stay home on the dole. This exact same thing would happen with the hard working folks you mention if they are given legal residence

Sheep, sheep. You have to stop believing the theoretical dribblings of conservative economists and get out more. This is real life. Those answers only work on Jeopardy.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Sheep, sheep. You have to stop believing the theoretical dribblings of conservative economists and get out more. This is real life. Those answers only work on Jeopardy.

man I love this board. I have now been accused of being liberal and sheltered

What part do you disagree with? Certainly there is short term issues but in the long term the theory works. Also doing nothing makes the status stay the same or decline.

Are you saying that higher labor costs would not make you seek the means to reduce the number of employees through efficiencies and innovation?

[CBRVFR]

Arghhhhh. I'll sit down wiht you at Grattan after track hours with some bourbon on the rocks and we'll sort this out, OK?

In the meantime, think about the niche that these workers are filling in the economy. The Cotton Gin ( which tastes like ****, by the way ) was an effort to make a whole established regional agricultural industry viable again after the disappearance of slave labor. That's macro-industrial.

Hammer needed to get some people to clear some brush from some rural power lines. Nobody is going to revolutionize that, regardless of the fact that no one wants to do it, and the wages were probably decent. It's unskilled manual labor that's neither glamorous or easy. See the difference?

As a business owner, I always try to balance the cost of innovation/capital improvements and simple efficiencies. Labor shortages might create higher wages, but they might also create inflation, lack of competitiveness, and ultimate job loss.

Few Theoretical Economists (or politicians) have ever met a payroll, and they basically are less useful than weathermen.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Arghhhhh. I'll sit down wiht you at Grattan after track hours with some bourbon on the rocks and we'll sort this out, OK?

In the meantime, think about the niche that these workers are filling in the economy. The Cotton Gin ( which tastes like ****, by the way ) was an effort to make a whole established regional agricultural industry viable again after the disappearance of slave labor. That's macro-industrial.

Hammer needed to get some people to clear some brush from some rural power lines. Nobody is going to revolutionize that, regardless of the fact that no one wants to do it, and the wages were probably decent. It's unskilled manual labor that's neither glamorous or easy. See the difference?

As a business owner, I always try to balance the cost of innovation/capital improvements and simple efficiencies. Labor shortages might create higher wages, but they might also create inflation, lack of competitiveness, and ultimate job loss.

Few Theoretical Economists (or politicians) have ever met a payroll, and they basically are less useful than weathermen.

Alcohol .... do you really think that a good idea

and no I do not. Drive a garbage truck... sexy work? Yet BFI has enough drivers. As far as innovation... bush hogs power mowers gas powered weed eaters chain saws Nope clearing brush will never be improved

Now back to the job americans won't take (mowing lawn)