[Repeater]

Who the hell cares. let people be free and stop being such anti american. I am so sick of freedom talk when we don't back it up. I'm a service memeber and am apalled at my (i hate admitting this) commander and chief being a bigot.

why not let homo's be as miserble as the rest of you married people. it would create more income for the republcan trickle down . more devorce lawyers would get paid.

I wish we could face are problems instead of the issues that divide us. wave to a harley rider and be a good american.

Doesn't it just seem wrong to make these type of laws and try to soil our constitution with appaling amendments that have hate written all over the font. Yes i know it didn't pass but it should have never come to a vote. at least a few law makers were thinking. mind you just a few.

I hate every group of people regardless of race creed or sex. damit i am american and thats my ****en right!

[HondaGalToo]

Gay marriage, just another diversion from the real issues.

[Repeater]

not an issue but a right! even more then a right really it is just comman american decencey. think about it people we are not allowed by our values to descriminate. just think! please.

[HondaGalToo]

Agreed.

[gthotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Repeater

Who the hell cares. let people be free and stop being such anti american. I am so sick of freedom talk when we don't back it up. I'm a service memeber and am apalled at my (i hate admitting this) commander and chief being a bigot.

why not let homo's be as miserble as the rest of you married people. it would create more income for the republcan trickle down . more devorce lawyers would get paid.

I wish we could face are problems instead of the issues that divide us. wave to a harley rider and be a good american.

Doesn't it just seem wrong to make these type of laws and try to soil our constitution with appaling amendments that have hate written all over the font. Yes i know it didn't pass but it should have never come to a vote. at least a few law makers were thinking. mind you just a few.

I hate every group of people regardless of race creed or sex. damit i am american and thats my ****en right!

Why the hell does it bother so many ppl????

[Scout]

Originally Posted by Repeater

I wish we could face are problems instead of the issues that divide us. wave to a harley rider and be a good american.

I always wave to Harley riders. Most wave back, the others it just pisses off. Purpose served either way.

[Heavy-Dee]

[mathyoomay]

[Custom900]

I guess I will be the first to step in and say that Marriage is and should be between a man and a woman. Gay marriage is demoralizing to the Country.

Notice I said "De-moral-izing". Where have the morals of this Country gone?

I think it's sick personally.

I know that this isn't a religious topic, but there is only one time within the Bible that we are told a sin is an abonination. If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed an abomination.
Lev 20:13 (HCSB)


Do not profane the name of your God; I am the Lord. 22 You are not to sleep with a man as with a woman; it is detestable. 23 You are not to have sexual intercourse with any animal, defiling yourself with it; a woman is not to present herself to an animal to mate with it; it is a perversion.“Do not defile yourselves by any of these [practices] , for the nations I am driving out before you have defiled themselves by all these things. 25 The land has become defiled, so I am punishing it for its sin, and the land will vomit out its inhabitants.[/font]
Lev 18:21-25 (HCSB)

[esoteric]

Originally Posted by Custom900

I guess I will be the first to step in and say that Marriage is and should be between a man and a woman. Gay marriage is demoralizing to the Country.
Notice I said "De-moral-izing". Where have the morals of this Country gone?
I think it's sick personally.
I know that this isn't a religious topic, but there is only one time within the Bible that we are told a sin is an abonination.

If marriage were exclusively a mechanism by and of your religious community then I wouldn't have a probelem with your religous community being as bigoted as it wanted to be within its own group. Unfortuantely, marriage is a device that's internationally and federally recognized and state legislated.
Once a religion manages to have one of its devices incorporated into the laws of the country it must lose its attachment to that faith, whether the faith maintains its attachment to the mechanism or not. Because it's incorporated, that device must obey the same discriminatory tests as any other rule, regulation, or law. If there was any legislation to occur regarding marriage federally, I'd suggest it relates to anti-descrimination in order that couples married in a state with disparate laws are at least guaranteed the rights of marriage endowed by their home state when travelling.
The moral values and the "demoralizing" you tout are just part of your faith and its dark-age (and pre-dark-age) interests. Once you start quoting your Bible, as far as I'm concerned, you've stopped talking about law (and morality). Is it inappropriate for gays to transfer property from one another? That's the original intent of marriage and in a lot of cases still a strong intent now. There's numerous laws that layer on top of marriage to further emphasize that transfer of property, provide tax benefits for couples, and also provide rights for directing proper care for individuals for dedicated pairs. Whether you want to associate morality with yoru religion and make a blanket judgement on a lifestyle and a condition that you don't understand, it should be clear that (moral or not) it's unethical to operate the federal government in a socially exclusionary manner. If you (and your religion) took some steps into the modern world and understood homosexuality from the psychological and biological point of view, it would be clear that this is not a moral issue and what your religion touts as "morality" isn't necessarily so.
I expect the majority of the interest in gay marriage has to do with the more interesting laws pertaining to transfer of property, rights of care, and tax benefits. Basically, all the original intentions of marriage without all the cloudy pretentious stuff that has been slathered all over it.

[jaim]

esoteric.

[Scout]

Esoteric-

See, and here's the crux:

I'm personally against gay marriage, as I wouldn't teach it as a feasible alternative to my children. But, I don't care if it's legalized.

The same with abortion. I'm anti-abortion, yet I don't care if women have the right to choose. Literally, I believe they do.

You see, I have my beliefs, Christianity, and choose to try to live my life by Jesus teachings (and fail miserably, often I might add), which have a deep moral meaning to me. So I don't believe we give up morality when we speak of these things. I don't believe it's necessary that I impose my will on others, though. Thus, I won't vote on these type issues.

Personally, I do understand homosexuality from a psychological and biological view. I also believe not everyone is effected by these issues - as in genetic make-up or deep psychological motivators.

Again, Jesus taught those with an ear to listen and understand. He didn't say under any interpretation I'm aware of that we were to force a conversion to his teachings.

I don't make blanket statements concerning politics or religion simply because no one knows the heart of man, and though I can judge, I am not judgemental. Christ has taught me this.

Man will do what man will do. None of us are infallible. If the law passes for gay marriage, so be it. Give unto Caesar what is Caesars. It doesn't effect me.

[Jungleboy]

Im not at all bothered by gay couples living there lives together and can understand why they would wish to be married for many reasons (legal, finacial, property etc etc and just to be legaly recognised in society as a couple).

But the one thing that does bother me is that If gay couples were to be legally married they would therefore theoretically able to adopt.

Now I know that this will open up a whole different can of worms and many will argue that many gay couples would be able do a lot better job of raising children than a lot of heterosexual couples out there! (and this would most likely be true). But I really think that a child that may already have many issues to deal with as the result of being adopted shouldnt be burdened with any other socially complex issues such as also having to deal with being raised by homesexual parents. ( I dont doubt that many gay people have the ability to be good parents) I just think that it is in the best interests of any child to have a roll model of each gender during their development from which to model their own behaviour, Granted that these days there are nearly as many broken families in society as "normal" families, but I just think where we do have a hand in the matter we should endevour to give these children the best start possible..

[seamus]

Originally Posted by Repeater

I hate every group of people regardless of race creed or sex. damit i am american and thats my ****en right!

That's discrimination. You should hate each person on their own individual merits.

[gthotchkiss]

Originally Posted by Jungleboy

But the one thing that does bother me is that If gay couples were to be legally married they would therefore theoretically able to adopt.

People can adopt when they're single, you already have gay couples raising children, why does it hurt that they do it married? Thats just hooking them up with the financial benifits...

Don't get me wrong, I think that a child's life could be extremelly akward growing up with gay parents... "Hey everyone, Johnny's got two daddys..." But I still don't see how we could take away their rights to have children!

As far as gay marriage goes, who cares? I think marriage should be a right everyone should be able to enjoy... Its not going to hurt me personally if they're allowed to marry!

Scout -- gotta respect your stance on this!

[Scout]

Originally Posted by gthotchkiss

Scout -- gotta respect your stance on this!

Thanks, for even recognizing it's a stance. Some would call it waffling.

[schnogg]

Well, I'm certainly not going to have a gay marriage. No, sir. No gay marriage for me.

[esoteric]

Originally Posted by Scout

If the law passes for gay marriage, so be it. Give unto Caesar what is Caesars. It doesn't effect me.

It sounds like you've overly separated your religous life from your political life. I don't see any crux except for your last statement. If there is discrimination legislated, it effects you whether it be directly or not or it will. It's been true in other countries, there's no sense that it isn't true here. It's your country (I'm making an assumption here). Whenever descrimination is determined and legally overturned, it's the majority groups that recompense for it. When congress finally takes action on this and/or the Supreme Court rules against the various restrictive state laws when a viable lawsuit finds its way up the chain, I can see some sort of economic apology/incentive/affirmative action being made for these pairs. Since laws are a redistribution of rights (civil or monetary) and I'm not making an advance in my status in this case, it's costing me something tax-dollar-wise by the legislation even being addressed. I expect yourself as well.

[phobiaphobe]

Nothing against gay marriage but a little concerned about the precedent it sets. What if I want to marry a goat?

[onevcs]

Originally Posted by esoteric

If marriage were exclusively a mechanism by and of your religious community then I wouldn't have a probelem with your religous community being as bigoted as it wanted to be within its own group. Unfortuantely, marriage is a device that's internationally and federally recognized and state legislated.
Once a religion manages to have one of its devices incorporated into the laws of the country it must lose its attachment to that faith, whether the faith maintains its attachment to the mechanism or not. Because it's incorporated, that device must obey the same discriminatory tests as any other rule, regulation, or law. If there was any legislation to occur regarding marriage federally, I'd suggest it relates to anti-descrimination in order that couples married in a state with disparate laws are at least guaranteed the rights of marriage endowed by their home state when travelling.
The moral values and the "demoralizing" you tout are just part of your faith and its dark-age (and pre-dark-age) interests. Once you start quoting your Bible, as far as I'm concerned, you've stopped talking about law (and morality). Is it inappropriate for gays to transfer property from one another? That's the original intent of marriage and in a lot of cases still a strong intent now. There's numerous laws that layer on top of marriage to further emphasize that transfer of property, provide tax benefits for couples, and also provide rights for directing proper care for individuals for dedicated pairs. Whether you want to associate morality with yoru religion and make a blanket judgement on a lifestyle and a condition that you don't understand, it should be clear that (moral or not) it's unethical to operate the federal government in a socially exclusionary manner. If you (and your religion) took some steps into the modern world and understood homosexuality from the psychological and biological point of view, it would be clear that this is not a moral issue and what your religion touts as "morality" isn't necessarily so.
I expect the majority of the interest in gay marriage has to do with the more interesting laws pertaining to transfer of property, rights of care, and tax benefits. Basically, all the original intentions of marriage without all the cloudy pretentious stuff that has been slathered all over it.

Literally, I could not have said better myself.

[schnogg]

Goats aren't constitutionally protected, but people are.

[esoteric]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Nothing against gay marriage but a little concerned about the precedent it sets. What if I want to marry a goat?

Well, you could marry Sheep at least... in Kentucky you can probably marry a goat.