[navydevildoc]

http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_d...ing_flags.html

Right on brotha.

[Scout]

I think he got his point across.

[Custom900]

I could care less to read Dilbert again after that. Not that I cared for the little cartoon before, but now I have a reason to hate it. That guy is an idiot.


How many people have died for that flag?

That flag is a representation of freedom in itself.

That flag stands for the honor and integrity of this Country.

The flag of the United States of America should not be burned in protest. That is showing hatred and disrespect to a Country that has allowed you the freedom to have "Free Speach" and the "Freedom to Protest" in the first place.

[navydevildoc]

I can't disagree more. The right to assemble and the right of free speech is something I have sworn to protect with my life if necessary, and I am 100% for people burning the flag if they really feel the need to get their point across.

Criticizing the government does not make you un-patriotic. In fact, I think you could argue that challenging the government is one of the more patriotic things you can do. I am not talking about armed rebellion or anything, but holding leaders accountable for their actions.

[Custom900]

This is going to be another endless debate.
I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you Doc. There are other ways of getting your point across without lighting the flag that so many of our brothers and sisters have died for.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by Custom900

How many people have died for that flag?

None. They died for the Soldier in the foxhole next to him. Don't confuse the two.

Originally Posted by Custom900

That flag is a representation of freedom in itself.

That flag stands for the honor and integrity of this Country.

The flag of the United States of America should not be burned in protest. That is showing hatred and disrespect to a Country that has allowed you the freedom to have "Free Speach" and the "Freedom to Protest" in the first place.

The flag does represent this country, it should not be burned in protest, and it does show hatred and disrespect. But it is a symbol that is held in your own heart and mind. It represents freedom, it isn't freedom in and of itself. But, hey, on the other hand, it didn't always represent freedom for all people. There are those who fought under the flag during the Civil War, WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and Vietnam who weren't free. What about them?

Crap like banning flag burning happens in countries that we impose "regime change" in. Yet again, our forked tongued colleagues in Congress speak one thing and do another. And yet again, they convince us that it's "important". Forget about the war, forget that people are hungry, forget that our kids are functionally illiterate, forget that we're trillions of dollars in debt and don't have a functional budget. Let's focus on the important stuff. Let's attach riders to the budget that will further put America in debt and require more tax money to be spent on **** that we can do without for a couple years.

Yeah, let's worry about a small segment of the population that has no respect for themselves or anyone else around them. That'll fix all our problems.

[Custom900]

Somehow though it seems that the small segment of people are those that have the loudest voice at times.

I don't disagree with all that has been said by those that have posted thus far, but I do disagree with burning my Country's flag. To me, if you are you are going to publically set your Country's flag on fire you have just disregarded all that your Country stands for. To me - my opinion here; That is boarder-line treason.

If you don't like where you live do something to help see changes come about or move. It's that simple. In other words, get up and get involved.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by Custom900

Somehow though it seems that the small segment of people are those that have the loudest voice at times.

I don't disagree with all that has been said by those that have posted thus far, but I do disagree with burning my Country's flag. To me, if you are you are going to publically set your Country's flag on fire you have just disregarded all that your Country stands for. To me - my opinion here; That is boarder-line treason.

If you don't like where you live do something to help see changes come about or move. It's that simple. In other words, get up and get involved.

Right, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease." The other three wheels may have problems, but because they don't stand out and make themselves known, they suffer in silence. When only 30% of a population gets out and votes, they will be the people that are heard.

[dattaway]

What happens after its against the law to critisize your own country? Get a ticket for saying something bad about your city? Getting cited for complaining about the water department? The flag is a symbol of freedom. Don't take the freedom away from the flag by outlawing what it represents. Like freedom itself, it can be freely burned. Ironic, isn't it? That's the beauty of freedom.

[nhfirefighter13]

Custom, I'm just curious. Should, and I refrain from using the word "peaceful", non-violent protests/marches/ or rallies by the KKK be illegal? Should Jehova Witnesses be arrested for knocking on doors? Should Pro-Life demonstrators outside an abortion clinic be prosecuted? Should the entire State of NH be ridiculed for calling MLK Day "Civil Right's Day"? Should Gay/Lesbian rights marches/rallies be banned? Do I need to go on? As with burning the US Flag, I don't agree with any of the previous acts or organizations but I do believe in their rights to say what they will. In order to still agree that burning the flag should be illegal, you have to agree that all of my examples should also be made illegal. That's not what this Country is about. I served my Country and while I certainly did not die in the process believe that a tiny part of that Flag is mine. The soldiers are not fighting for the flag, they're fighting for the Country and the people who live in it.
Oh yeah,

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. (5) You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me

[esoteric]

Originally Posted by Custom900

That flag is a representation of freedom in itself.

But what if you feel THAT flag no longer represents freedom, like it ideally does? Our country exists with many freedoms, but not all.

Originally Posted by Custom900

That flag stands for the honor and integrity of this Country.

But what if THAT flag stands for a country that lacks honor or integrity?

Originally Posted by Custom900

The flag of the United States of America should not be burned in protest. That is showing hatred and disrespect to a Country that has allowed you the freedom to have "Free Speach" and the "Freedom to Protest" in the first place.

But what if that country THAT flag is standing for is failing you in freedom of speech and freedom of protest? What if that flag stands for a country that hates and disrespects its citizens, after hundreds of years of hundreds of thousands of people fighting for it?

Originally Posted by Custom900

There are other ways of getting your point across without lighting the flag that so many of our brothers and sisters have died for.

If burning the flag is so offensive, so polarizing, so wrong, what other expression can communicate the exact same matter and feeling, invoke the same matter and feeling in an audience? Like profanity in oral discourse, there is no equivalence in normal action or normal language.

Even with the state of the country/world/theocracy as it is, things are going fairly well at the moment and NOT burning the flag seems appropriate. However, when the day comes when the country fails and the leadership takes the republic down yet another rabbit hole, the day where making that statement is of utmost importance, utmost significance, and is a NECESSITY of communicating this condition, it is that day where the importance of that action, alone, will render citizens speaking truth as criminals. Criminals under a country, at that time, that is already failing its citizens in freedom and respect.

Nations are fabrications of and by men. No nation is perfect, and no nation is forever.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by nhfirefighter13

Should the entire State of NH be ridiculed for calling MLK Day "Civil Right's Day"?

Yes.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by navydevildoc

Criticizing the government does not make you un-patriotic. In fact, I think you could argue that challenging the government is one of the more patriotic things you can do.

This seems self evident. Kind of like telling us the sky is blue. Does it really need to be repeated...

Originally Posted by navydevildoc

I am not talking about armed rebellion or anything, but holding leaders accountable for their actions.

Now I'll bite...just how does burning one's own flag constitute "holding leaders accountable"....

[nhfirefighter13]

Originally Posted by seamus

Yes.

Ahhh! Your opinion is valid (and mine is the same as yours, btw) But should it be illegal? Should the Federal govt. step in and force NH to change the name of a holiday?

[seamus]

Since it's a federal holiday, what gives NH the right to change it in the first place? You either acknowledge the day or you don't. The day was not set aside to celebrate civil rights, it was to celebrate a great American much like Washington and Lincoln's holidays.

I don't like the federal government's idea of what they have authority over but for a state to arbitrarily change something that doesn't belong to them is just as ridiculous.

[DJChyk]

The sight of my flag, the flag of the United States of America, scorched and burning is horrific, heartbreaking, nausea-inducing and absolutely positively the last thing I would ever consider or encourage anyone else to do. I feel sorry for those who have reached that point of desperation, where they feel their voice cannot be heard any other way. Their passion (misguided or not) has pushed them to the brink. That is very sad, to say the least.

But don't ever take away my RIGHT to burn that same flag, to express myself, my thoughts, my freedom of speech, writings, freedom to criticize those who make the rules (like we all do). It is my right, I choose not to exercise that right, but I make that decision, not anyone else. That, my friends, is slippery slope.

[nhfirefighter13]

Originally Posted by seamus

...for a state to arbitrarily change something that doesn't belong to them is just as ridiculous.

http://www.afsc.org/newengland/nh/backgrounder.pdf

[BDA116]

Utah used to call it Civil rights day as well - which is what it should be named. The Feds changed Washington's and Lincoln's Birthday holidays to be consolidated into one called President's day for that. Those two did FAR more for this country and its people than did MLK. The Holiday SHOULD be named Civil Rights Day, period.
Utah was harassed by the NAACP mob and the Feds until they changed the name.
Stupid.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Those two did FAR more for this country and its people than did MLK. The Holiday SHOULD be named Civil Rights Day, period.

BDA, I usually agree with you, but don't you think your above statement depends on who you are, so to speak?


Oh, and I have to give you hell for winning that damn contest!

[BDA116]

Depends on your version of history. Lincoln and other Republicans did far more for the black community. You do know that they had full and equal rights until the dems took over power and repealed all the laws that were put in place, right? Jim Crow laws and the Southern Manifesto just to name two of the dastardly deeds. Had it not been for the dems, MLK never would have needed to go on his rampage.
And at the risk of making certain people cry, MLK was one of the most racist people to live in the last century. He was very anti-white. Yes, he was a very good leader in the charge to make things right again, but in the process he was very racist.

The day should be celebrated, but it should be celebrated for what it accomplished - Civil Rights for all, not for some single person.
There are many other people in history worthy of their own holiday, but how many of them have one?

And yeah, I wasted some time to win that, but hey - free money, right?

[Scout]

I agree with your perspective, now you've explined it, and I can agree with an equal billing - sometimes the ends justify the means.


The reason I state equal, in my own opinion, is I believe it is much harder to overturn the status quo than to establish it.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by Scout

I agree with your perspective, now you've explined it, and I can agree with an equal billing - sometimes the ends justify the means.


The reason I state equal, in my own opinion, is I believe it is much harder to overturn the status quo