[Baketech]

Hmmm....perhaps it's time for my particular brand of performance art as a subtle reminder....

[Proto]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

It seems to me that those who teach hatred as a nationalistic and religious tenet are at fault.

Would this be the peace loving family who are now sitting in a bombed out house, or the many thousands without electricity, or the fanatics who are actually doing the killing. All seem to be suffering right now.

Israel can continue indeffinitely as it is, at continual war with its immediate neighbours, if that is what it wants. With US support it will "win", but it's not much of a victory is it? Living in fear of suicide bombers and the occasional missile heading your way. And it's been going on for over 50 years.

So is there an alternative? Perhaps ruthlessly hunt down the perpetrators with all means available, but at the same time doing your very, very best to cause no loss of life or dignity to the innocents. It would be painful for Israel, and it's people will suffer but just maybe the hearts and minds (what a cliched expression that is becoming these days) of those that currently have little to lose by allowing terrorists to operate amongst them will be won over.

Dunno to be honest, but bombing the **** out of them hasn't worked so far. Can't see why it will.

And remember, you always reap what you sow.

[CBRVFR]

Originally Posted by Proto

So is there an alternative? Perhaps ruthlessly hunt down the perpetrators with all means available, but at the same time doing your very, very best to cause no loss of life or dignity to the innocents. It would be painful for Israel, and it's people will suffer but just maybe the hearts and minds (what a cliched expression that is becoming these days) of those that currently have little to lose by allowing terrorists to operate amongst them will be won over.

Dunno to be honest, but bombing the **** out of them hasn't worked so far. Can't see why it will.

They've employed that approach, and still use it. ask the last guy who was in charge of making bombs for Hamas. Oops, too late.

I suppose political and strategic exigencies drive their responses, which often seem disproportionate from this great distance. Bottom line, neither of us has the responsibility of keeping our citizens safe in that environment, so we can't really judge with accuracy.

Egypt is protecting its people by preventing terrorists to operate from within their country.. what a concept.

Again, Israel is by no means perfect, but has shown that it will not attack those nations around it that want peace and will prevent terrorists from operating from its territory. Or are even making an honest attempt.

The ugly-ass wall is preventing a lot of the suicide bombings, so Syria , over the head of the weakened Lebanese government, is allowing terrorists to attack with rockets. Kind of like London in WWII.. Which was followed by Dresden. Paybacks are a bitch, aren't they? Always have been.

Originally Posted by Proto

And remember, you always reap what you sow.

Well, we're all ****ed then.

[Proto]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Well, we're all ****ed then.

Of that, there is no doubt

... London in WWII.. Which was followed by Dresden. Paybacks are a bitch, aren't they? Always have been.

Interesting programme on the tele this week about the allied bombing of civilian targets in WW2. Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki being specifically discussed. Dresden had absolutely no military importance whatsoever but it was thought it would be good for the British morale and bad for the Germa morale. Good enough reason? Hindsight says no. Churchill thought it essential.

Note to self: must read Slaughterhouse 5 again.

[seamus]

This is exactly why it'll never end.

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Yeah, I was going to post up and ask if he just smoked pot all throughout his history classes myself.

I think the hippy needs to read his own bit about defeating their enemies and setting up their own country and then take a look at how Israel gained the West Bank and Gaza territories.
This thread is being covered fairly well otherwise, I just had to do a couple WTF double takes at the hippy-posts.

I didn't get my info from any history class (we didn't cover much from the 20th century in high school other than the WWs). My info came from Labanese people who grew up there, right near the border (they are my friends parents). I'm not saying they hate Israelis or anything like that, they just dislike who that country was formed into what it is today. And I certainly made no mention of territory they took after they became a recognized country. take away outside influence and who would be the majority there. maybe it would have still turned out to be Israeli, maybe not. probably still would have been even more fighting than there is now in the region.

I don't know if you guys think I disagree with what Israel is doing or not but I'll tell you I have no problem with them going in there. If its true that some of their soldiers were kidnapped I say blow the **** out of them (I know my friend would be pissed at me saying that because a lot of her family is probably going to be killed during this)

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Do you have ANY clue as to what you're talking about? Quick trivia, name the three countries with the most nuclear weapons in the world.

I never made any claim to knowing who has the most nuclear weapons but I'll take a guess, US, Iran and China. am I close?

[Custom900]

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

I never made any claim to knowing who has the most nuclear weapons but I'll take a guess, US, Iran and China. am I close?

You got one right.

Try U.S.A.
Russia
Israel

[seamus]

I'd be leery asking a Lebanese citizen who lived on the border of Israel who's to blame for this conflict.

It'd be like asking a Hatfield who started that little conflict. Not saying you wouldn't get the right answer, but you'd have to do a bunch more research to make sure the answer was right.

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by Custom900

You got one right.

Try U.S.A.
Russia
Israel

damn Russia was my number 4. I figured they'd gotten rid of most of it though so thats why I didn't say them. I would have never guessed Israel.

Originally Posted by seamus

I'd be leery asking a Lebanese citizen who lived on the border of Israel who's to blame for this conflict.

It'd be like asking a Hatfield who started that little conflict. Not saying you wouldn't get the right answer, but you'd have to do a bunch more research to make sure the answer was right.

are you talking the official reason or any of the many reasons they've hated each other for hundreds of years that isn't officially being said as the cause.

either way as long as they can get rid of Hezbollah and limit civilian casualties to a minimum I say let the **** fly. I do like how a lot of the other nations are staying out of it and letting them duke it out themselves (which is how I think it should have always been done there)

[seamus]

What's the official reason? They hated each other before Israel was a state.

I ended the conflict about 20 minutes ago. I turned off the news and am watching Comedy Central. I also covered my ears and am going LALALALALA.

I'm tired of this thread. Let 'em duke it out like you said. Call me when it's over. I'm going back to win a PS2.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

I didn't get my info from any history class (we didn't cover much from the 20th century in high school other than the WWs). My info came from Labanese people who grew up there, right near the border (they are my friends parents).

That's quite obvious. They are feeding you bullshit "tought" to them in school from a history and fact-deficient governmental viewpoint.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by BDA116

That's quite obvious. They are feeding you bullshit "tought" to them in school from a history and fact-deficient governmental viewpoint.

You say the same about American schools.

And it's taught.

[BDA116]

So I typoed. Oops.
And the information they are taught is very much controlled and single sided. Are you actually going to try and refute that?
Ours are slightly better in most cases, but quite obviously not in all.
The above mentioned point of view passed off as historical fact is so laughably false it is sad.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by BDA116

So I typoed. Oops.
And the information they are taught is very much controlled and single sided. Are you actually going to try and refute that?
Ours are slightly better in most cases, but quite obviously not in all.
The above mentioned point of view passed off as historical fact is so laughably false it is sad.

Is that better?

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by seamus

Is that better?

I'm trying to make you green, slow-mover jockey.

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by seamus

What's the official reason? They hated each other before Israel was a state.

I ended the conflict about 20 minutes ago. I turned off the news and am watching Comedy Central. I also covered my ears and am going LALALALALA.

I'm tired of this thread. Let 'em duke it out like you said. Call me when it's over. I'm going back to win a PS2.

well the official reason is Hezbollah kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers. but anyone who believes thats the only reason is just naive.

Originally Posted by BDA116

That's quite obvious. They are feeding you bullshit "tought" to them in school from a history and fact-deficient governmental viewpoint.

I have no clue when she gets home (her father, my friends grandfather is dying and she can't even get back there to see him) but if I remember I'll ask her if she learned it through school or her parents who actually lived through the wars in the 40/50s.

[Custom900]

Syria is now stepping out into the open as being involved. That means that it's only a short amount of time before Iran joins in.

The all out war that Hezbolla has declared is definitely affecting the oil prices as well as the Stock Market. The simple threat to the US economy makes me wonder just how long it will be before we get involved.

I say it will only be a matter of weeks and you will see US troups battling it out in another Mid East field.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by BDA116

I'm trying to make you green, slow-mover jockey.

It'll take a lot more than that to make me green. That's part of what makes me the best Apache pilot in the world. Total control over all of my emotions and the ability to fly with one eye.

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by seamus

It'll take a lot more than that to make me green. That's part of what makes me the best Apache pilot in the world. Total control over all of my emotions and the ability to fly with my one eyed monster.

damn thats pretty impressive albeit disturbing

[davef]

Originally Posted by Red Rider

On a side note...interesting read.

Why Arabs lose wars

Awesome read! Everyone should take the time to check it out.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by CBR929RE