Lebanon....

Baketech · 07-12-2006, 9:02 AM

Quote:

Israeli troops enter Lebanon

Israel launched airstrikes and sent troops into southern Lebanon today after Hezbollah said its guerrillas had abducted two Israeli soldiers. Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert described the Hezbollah attacks as an "act of war" and promised a "very painful and far-reaching" response, The Associated Press reported.

bwhip · 07-12-2006, 9:05 AM

...with a big thank-you to Syria and Iran.

Baketech · 07-12-2006, 9:07 AM

Someone is begging for a serious beatdown methinks...

ND4SPD · 07-12-2006, 9:15 AM

What are these guys thinking messing with Israel?

Zhart · 07-12-2006, 9:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

Here is another excuse to keep oil prices up

I hope our Jewish friends unleash an ass whoping on those stupid militant groups. When will it ever end?

sheepofblue · 07-12-2006, 9:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

What are these guys thinking messing with Israel?

They are thinking Isreal has gotten weak. The thugs in that region understand a beating far more than an olive branch. When Isreal withdrew the thugs sensed weakness and have escalated their efforts. This is further compounded by having a safe haven from which to operate and the Isreali leftists public self loathing.

oldfogey · 07-12-2006, 10:09 AM

Surely, just opening up a second front to help the Palestinians in Gaza? Classic tactics....

If the Israelis start a war for every two soldiers that are kidnapped, they'd better end some as well.

luvtolean · 07-12-2006, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldfogey

Surely, just opening up a second front to help the Palestinians in Gaza? Classic tactics....

Yep

Quote:

If the Israelis start a war for every two soldiers that are kidnapped, they'd better end some as well.

Unfortunately for Lebanon, Israel will have no problem kicking their ass thoroughly while also fighting in the region Palestianians claim is a country (but isn't).

kawboy69 · 07-12-2006, 10:51 AM

I say kill'em all and let god sort'em out!!!

Maybe oil prices will drop

....

CBRVFR · 07-12-2006, 11:11 AM

It's far more complicated than that. Among other things, Hezbollah and Hamas are competitors and would be at each other's throats if the opportunity presented itself.

The problem is that no one ever forgets anything over there... but no one ever learns.

Israel would as soon go back into Lebanon as we'd go back to 'Nam.

sheepofblue · 07-12-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

It's far more complicated than that. Among other things, Hezbollah and Hamas are competitors and would be at each other's throats if the opportunity presented itself.

The problem is that no one ever forgets anything over there... but no one ever learns.

Israel would as soon go back into Lebanon as we'd go back to 'Nam.

very true.

oldfogey · 07-12-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

It's far more complicated than that. Among other things, Hezbollah and Hamas are competitors and would be at each other's throats if the opportunity presented itself.

A bit like those husband and wife pairs who never stop arguing except when someone else starts up with one of them, when they'll fight together before resuming combat!

SuperDave · 07-12-2006, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

The problem is that no one ever forgets anything over there... but no one ever learns.

I watched that movie Munich, and although a Hollywood movie, it proves your point exactly. I am just amazed at the never ending saga that goes on in that region of the world. There is absolutely no logic to the centuries of feuding and retaliation (back and forth, back and forth). By the way, I liked that movie, a little long at times, but good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Israel would as soon go back into Lebanon as we'd go back to 'Nam.

Oops nevermind
11 April 1996
Israel begins a 17-day bombardment of Lebanon, codenamed "Operation Grapes of Wrath". Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas fire Katyusha rockets at populated areas of northern Israel. On 18 April Israel shells a UN base at Qana killing about one hundred of 800 civilians sheltering there. A later UN report implies the attack was intentional, though Israel denies this.
Violence ends with an unwritten agreement to avoid future civilian casualties but this is regularly broken by both sides.

sheepofblue · 07-12-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperDave

..
A later UN report implies the attack was intentional, though Israel denies this.
Violence ends with an unwritten agreement to avoid future civilian casualties but this is regularly broken by both sides.

The UN is so anti-Isreal that I would ignore anything they say. Further the Arabs typically attack from civilian locations using the civilians as a defense.

CBRVFR · 07-12-2006, 12:05 PM

Here's a (rare) relatively objective report.

1982 Lebanon War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon to rid both countries of the tens of thousands of PLO fighters and foreign mercenaries who were killing Israeli citizens with impunity on an almost daily basis. Israel wasn't to fully withdraw until 2000.

Israel was provoked beyond all booundaries, but one of the results was the 1982 massacre of civilians at the Sabra and Shatila camps by the Lebanese Druze while the Israeli army did nothing to stop it.

As the article says, it was a limited success from a military point of view, but a political and social disaster for the region.

ccwilli3 · 07-12-2006, 12:39 PM

when will it ever end? When one or the other has been completely eliminated from the planet... In other words, it won't...

Jews are born with the devine right and believe to their death that is their land. They are owed this, god has told them this...

Muslims believe that it's their land and anyone being there is a shot at their ENTIRE belief system... Infidels practicing something other than islam in the holy land...

seamus · 07-12-2006, 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

The problem is that no one ever forgets anything over there... but no one ever learns.

The bigger problem is with alliances there. An alliance is seen as a temporary thing that can be ended at will. Which is why Syria and Lebanon would be at each other's throats just a year ago with the assassination of the Lebanese president (or whatever they called him) and would now be fighting together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccwilli3

Muslims believe that it's their land and anyone being there is a shot at their ENTIRE belief system... Infidels practicing something other than islam in the holy land...

Islam actually teaches tolerance and up until Mohammed was sold out by the Jewish population of what is now Saudia Arabia, Jews, Christians, and Muslims lived in peace together. It isn't Muslims that perpetrate this madness, but extremists who have distorted the Koran. It's no different than any other religion anywhere else in the world. Unfortunately.

luvtolean · 07-12-2006, 6:59 PM

So...is the Koran...now a document by extremists?

I've read parts of it in a hotel room...and it's nowhere near a religion of tolerance.

According to a Christian friend from Syria...even the "normal" adherents of Islam believe leaving the religion should result in death...

tuffy6969 · 07-12-2006, 7:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

They are thinking Israel has gotten weak. The thugs in that region understand a beating far more than an olive branch. When Israel withdrew the thugs sensed weakness and have escalated their efforts. This is further compounded by having a safe haven from which to operate and the Israeli leftists public self loathing.

Let me jump in here - I know Ehud Olmert personally. My parents (who are heavily involved in Jewish politics) introduced me to him when he was the mayor of Jerusalem. I had a little talk with him as well as listened to his speech - BELIEVE ME - he is no Sharon. He is quite the hawk and he will level Lebanon if he has to. Israel finally has a REAL leader that will NOT give in to those terrorist SOB assholes. Just watch - in the words of Japanese admiral Yamamoto after the Pearl Harbor attack - "....we have woken a sleeping giant". God (or Allah in the terrorists case) help them.

seamus · 07-12-2006, 7:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

So...is the Koran...now a document by extremists?

I've read parts of it in a hotel room...and it's nowhere near a religion of tolerance.

According to a Christian friend from Syria...even the "normal" adherents of Islam believe leaving the religion should result in death...

No. But just as kings interpreted the Bible to claim their "rights" over middle eastern lands hundreds of years ago, Muslim extremists do the same now. After WWII, western countries siding with Jewish leadership established Israel, displacing people who already lived there to create a Jewish homeland.

You can flip pages in the Koran, just as you can in the Bible, and read conflicting advice and parables. Turn the other cheek v an eye for an eye. If you read the Koran and do some research, you'll see that Islam, for those that believe it, has the same main characters as the Bible and the Torah. It has many of the teachings and musings of the Bible. Just some different interpretations on some of the characters roles in history; God didn't speak to Moses is one that comes to mind off the top of my head. And the main difference between Islam, the one that creates the most angst and friction, is that Jesus is merely a prophet and not the Son of God.

I'm sure a Christian from Syria would have a different experience today than say, 1200 years ago. And leaving the religion would probably create some concern, as leaving a religion is a lot different than never having belonged to it in the first place.

According to the books I read, to include the Koran, prior to heading to Iraq a couple years ago (know thy enemy), people that lived in the region that is now the Arabian peninsula (Saudi, Iraq, parts of Iran) lived peacefully together despite the different religions that were flourishing there. Up until shortly after word of Mohammed's death due to his being ratted out by Jewish settlers.

luvtolean · 07-12-2006, 7:53 PM

Yeah, I've done some research on the period.

It seemed to me everyone was all right until the crusades started...I know less about the Jewish/Islam problems though, I need to shore up that hole.

Concern? Kids born a Muslim, MUST stay one, lest the community kill them. That is some serious stuff...

I think it's semantics to say what it used to be, I don't find Islam, as currently practiced in the Middle East, even by moderates, a religion of tolerance.