[jaim]

Course correction? White House*tosses Iraq mantra - CNN.com

WTF?!! Are you Bush supporters going to sit there and take this crap? I thought you all worship...liked Bush because he was "The Decider" and he didn't deviate from "the course." I guess James Baker is getting through the fog that is Bush's mind.

[luvtolean]

Jaim...why are you throwing stones, you got what you wanted right?

I see it as democracy working, the pressure on the admin that they were taking the wrong direction was real, and they realized, the republicans were marching to slaughter.

It's probably a bit late for this election, but it will be helpful in two years.

I REALLY do not want to see another damn Clinton in the White House.

[MisterMohawk]

Politics are hilarious.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by MisterMohawk

Politics are hilarious.

I'm not laughing yet, when does it get funny?

[luvtolean]

No ****.

[MisterMohawk]

Originally Posted by abtech

I'm not laughing yet, when does it get funny?

I meant 'depressing.'

[jaim]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Jaim...why are you throwing stones, you got what you wanted right?

Hmmm, I seem to remember taking a lot of **** form folks on this forum about my views regarding Bush and his cronies. Taking a stand and pointing out the problems with our governments and our leaders is not throwing stones. It is being an American.

I have not gotten what I wanted. GW is a free man still making stupid and illegal decisions and not suffering any of the consequences for his actions.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I see it as democracy working, the pressure on the admin that they were taking the wrong direction was real, and they realized, the republicans were marching to slaughter.

It's probably a bit late for this election, but it will be helpful in two years.

I REALLY do not want to see another damn Clinton in the White House.

Sorry but this is way beyond forgive and forget. How many soldiers have died because of the "wrong direction" and "staying the course?" And for what? Political gain? Oil profits? Corporate interests? What has been done by the Bush administration since 9/11 has not done a thing towards fighting terrorism. It has only made it worse. I don't see it as a democracy working. I see it as a large number of rats realizing the ship is sinking and trying to get away from the ship as fast as possible. The rats are looking out for themselves, that's what rats do. A congress is supposed to look out for the American populace, the democracy they represent. And during the last 6 years we have had rats controlling congress and not allowing the representatives to serve the people of the democracy. Pointing out that a leader can't lead only helps a democracy.

I am not sure what your reasons are for hating Clinton so much. He was not one of my favorite presidents but you have to at least acknowledge that while he was in office the world was a much safer place and the U.S. has some significant clout around the world.

[luvtolean]

Jaim, Clinton is VERY responsible for the current state of affairs in the world. Why do you think he reacted so violently when it was suggested Bin Laden was partly his problem?

He knows that is true, and doesn't want that little fact gaining traction and marring his legacy of wonderful things like lying under oath befitting of the common criminal he is.

Bush sucks. I don't feel the need to elaborate on him. I knew he sucked when elected. What I am less sure of now, though I believed at the time of both elections, is he was better than the alternative.

Throwing stones was referring to your post here on him changing the course. No more, no less.

As far as your persecution complex regarding the Pres, you have taken, and will continue to take ****, not for your viewpoint so much, but how you express it, and the basis for it.

[ND4SPD]

Originally Posted by jaim

Hmmm, I seem to remember taking a lot of **** form folks on this forum about my views regarding Bush and his cronies. Taking a stand and pointing out the problems with our governments and our leaders is not throwing stones. It is being an American.

I have not gotten what I wanted. GW is a free man still making stupid and illegal decisions and not suffering any of the consequences for his actions.



Sorry but this is way beyond forgive and forget. How many soldiers have died because of the "wrong direction" and "staying the course?" And for what? Political gain? Oil profits? Corporate interests? What has been done by the Bush administration since 9/11 has not done a thing towards fighting terrorism. It has only made it worse. I don't see it as a democracy working. I see it as a large number of rats realizing the ship is sinking and trying to get away from the ship as fast as possible. The rats are looking out for themselves, that's what rats do. A congress is supposed to look out for the American populace, the democracy they represent. And during the last 6 years we have had rats controlling congress and not allowing the representatives to serve the people of the democracy. Pointing out that a leader can't lead only helps a democracy.

I am not sure what your reasons are for hating Clinton so much. He was not one of my favorite presidents but you have to at least acknowledge that while he was in office the world was a much safer place and the U.S. has some significant clout around the world.

How many people - civilian and military, died because of Klinton? How many of the deaths in Iraq could have been prevented had he done his job as CIC?

[Mojave954]

Jaim, you sound like the typical misinformed citizen. While I won't rule out that OIL thing completely this is more about fighting this HERE or fighting it THERE. Now, How many Americans died during the WTC? OH, guess that is okay to you and we should just "understand" them? I don't think so. OH, what about our embassies in Africa, the COLE, what about the first attack on the WTC, the tunnels in NYC? Have you forgotten about these events. How many innocent Americans died out there for what? Doing their jobs and some protecting the very freedoms you enjoy today. NOT A ONE OF THOSE FREEDOMS CAME FREE. Someone paid the ultimate price back in the revolutionary war so you could sit there in your comfy chair in the greatest democracy in the world and bad mouth your gov't.

BOTTOM LINE, we are in this situation cause the previous administration failed to act in the appropiate manner. That was evident by the man himself during the interview. DOn't blame BUsh cause of where we are today. Put it where it belongs, the previous administration. We either fight this there or here. So tell us, you want this in your backyard???? Come on man, speak up.

Next time you see a Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airmen, you should buy his lunch/dinner or a drink for him and thank them . His sacrifice allows you the very freedom you enjoy. (FIne, the Coast Guard too). If it wasn't for these brave men and women you would be huddled in your house right now, AFRAID and you damn site wouldn't be on the internet wankin' about the gov't.

Can always move to France.

[Mojave954]

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

How many people - civilian and military, died because of Klinton? How many of the deaths in Iraq could have been prevented had he done his job as CIC?

In coming REP!

[navydevildoc]

Originally Posted by Mojave954

OH, what about our embassies in Africa, the Stark, what about the first attack on the WTC, the tunnels in NYC? Have you forgotten about these events.

No to be picky here sailor boy, but it was the USS Cole.

[jaim]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

As far as your persecution complex regarding the Pres, you have taken, and will continue to take ****, not for your viewpoint so much, but how you express it, and the basis for it.

The basis for my opinion about Bush has always been sound. And if my delivery is off putting well to those who don't like. I don't post to be popular.

[ND4SPD]

Originally Posted by jaim

The basis for my opinion about Bush has always been sound. And if my delivery is off putting well to those who don't like. I don't post to be popular.

The problem is, your opinion about Bush totally ignores the fact that a lot of the problems he is stuck dealing with were caused by the previous administration.

[navydevildoc]

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

How many people - civilian and military, died because of Klinton? How many of the deaths in Iraq could have been prevented had he done his job as CIC?

While I don't completely exonorate Clinton for all of his actions in office, but he was going after Bin Laden back in the day when there were very few people in this country knew who he was. He even tried to pass legislation to increase government powers in terrorism surveillance.

But guess what? The republican controlled congress said he was being "to obsessive" with Bin Laden, and refused to pass the bill.

I think Clinton did what he does best, use charm and picked his battles. While he was in office, 3 Major military campaings come to mind:

1) Somalia
2) Bosnia
3) Kosovo

In Somalia, which was inherited from George H. W. Bush, the politicians got involved with Military decisionmaking, and people got killed. The good news was we pulled the hell out of there. We might still be in an Iraq type conflict had we "stayed the course".

In Bosnia, the Srebrenica massacre incident finally caused Clinton to act against popular opinion. NATO's Operation Deliberate Force brought the warring factions out to Dayton, where a peace accord was forged that still stands today. Richard Holbrooke and General Wesley Clark were the two primary US delegates. There were zero military casualties

In Kosovo, the politicians gave General Clark (who was now NATO's Supreme Allied Commander) free rein to get into theater and put in a peacekeeping force. There were zero casualties in this war as well.

Both Bosnia-Herzegovina and Kosovo are well on the way to recovery. Both of those conflicts were Muslim vs. Christian based. We had a post-invasion plan going in, and it worked.

I have seen none of this as President Bush has conducted the Military's affairs.

[navydevildoc]

Originally Posted by Mojave954

Jaim, you sound like the typical misinformed citizen. While I won't rule out that OIL thing completely this is more about fighting this HERE or fighting it THERE. Now, How many Americans died during the WTC? OH, guess that is okay to you and we should just "understand" them? I don't think so. OH, what about our embassies in Africa, the Stark, what about the first attack on the WTC, the tunnels in NYC? Have you forgotten about these events. How many innocent Americans died out there for what? Doing their jobs and some protecting the very freedoms you enjoy today. NOT A ONE OF THOSE FREEDOMS CAME FREE. Someone paid the ultimate price back in the revolutionary war so you could sit there in your comfy chair in the greatest democracy in the world and bad mouth your gov't.

BOTTOM LINE, we are in this situation cause the previous administration failed to act in the appropiate manner. That was evident by the man himself during the interview. DOn't blame BUsh cause of where we are today. Put it where it belongs, the previous administration. We either fight this there or here. So tell us, you want this in your backyard???? Come on man, speak up.

Next time you see a Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airmen, you should buy his lunch/dinner or a drink for him and thank them . His sacrifice allows you the very freedom you enjoy. (FIne, the Coast Guard too). If it wasn't for these brave men and women you would be huddled in your house right now, AFRAID and you damn site wouldn't be on the internet wankin' about the gov't.

Can always move to France.

Also Mojave... you are basing all of this as if Iraq had something to do with 9/11. They did not. Even President Bush has admitted they didn't.

I think that is the key differentiator. You notice there is not much desent among the populace about the war in Afghanistan? People understand the link they had to 9/11.

Oh, and yeah... free beer for servicemen!

[jaim]

Originally Posted by Mojave954

Jaim, you sound like the typical misinformed citizen. While I won't rule out that OIL thing completely this is more about fighting this HERE or fighting it THERE. Now, How many Americans died during the WTC? OH, guess that is okay to you and we should just "understand" them? I don't think so. OH, what about our embassies in Africa, the Stark, what about the first attack on the WTC, the tunnels in NYC? Have you forgotten about these events. How many innocent Americans died out there for what? Doing their jobs and some protecting the very freedoms you enjoy today. NOT A ONE OF THOSE FREEDOMS CAME FREE. Someone paid the ultimate price back in the revolutionary war so you could sit there in your comfy chair in the greatest democracy in the world and bad mouth your gov't.

BOTTOM LINE, we are in this situation cause the previous administration failed to act in the appropiate manner. That was evident by the man himself during the interview. DOn't blame BUsh cause of where we are today. Put it where it belongs, the previous administration. We either fight this there or here. So tell us, you want this in your backyard???? Come on man, speak up.

Next time you see a Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airmen, you should buy his lunch/dinner or a drink for him and thank them . His sacrifice allows you the very freedom you enjoy. (FIne, the Coast Guard too). If it wasn't for these brave men and women you would be huddled in your house right now, AFRAID and you damn site wouldn't be on the internet wankin' about the gov't.

Can always move to France.

Your kidding right? What freedoms am I enjoying because of people dying in terrorist attacks. Last I checked I have less freedoms today that I did 6 years ago. And yes some folks did rise against their government and threw out the despots some 200+ years ago so I could sit in my not so comfy chair and complain about the government. That is the point. That is why they did it. Not to be heros, not to be martyrs but so every citizen could be free to express their opinions and beliefs without persecution. And the sooner you and those like you realize that the better off this country will be.

I have purchased many meals for folks in the military. How do you I'm not in the military.

This blaming the previous administration seems to be a last ditch effort to off load the blame from Bush. And this is definitely not the military way. 9/11 happened on Bush's watch. He is to blame, plain and simple. Katrina happened on Bush's watch, he is to blame for the response. Iraq and Afghanastan battle fronts and associated mess happened on Bush's watch, and was even initiated by Bush himself. Bush's fault. Blaming the previous president is a petty and childish diversion from the real problem...Bush and his administration.

France isn't too bad but I would rather move to Spain.

[luvtolean]

You blame Bush for Katrina? I suppose you'd have voted for Nagin again too right?

Clinton's own staffers have written books about why Clinton's dealings in the middle east gave Bush a serious problem that he was going to have to solve...

Clinton is responsible for things happening in the middle east. And Clinton can look back at Bush Sr. (who is doubly responsible as the previous head spook)

[navydevildoc]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

You blame Bush for Katrina? I suppose you'd have voted for Nagin again too right?

Clinton's own staffers have written books about why Clinton's dealings in the middle east gave Bush a serious problem that he was going to have to solve...

Clinton is responsible for things happening in the middle east. And Clinton can look back at Bush Sr. (who is doubly responsible as the previous head spook)

Sorry man, but I gotta disagree with you on this one. We marched to war with Iraq. Had we not done that, we would probably still be at status quo with on-again off-again weapons inspections. Clinton did not hand him this war.

Now, are there other problems in the Middle East? Of course. Many of which are due to Clinton's policies. But the war in Iraq is not one of them.

[leelover]

Interesting post NDD. #15, btw.
I would point out that Bosnia-Herzegovina and Kosovo, even though hosting a Muslim vs. Christian conflict are not Arabic countries. Nor do they support terrorism, as it is used in the middle east.

[leelover]

[quote=jaim;538601] Last I checked I have less freedoms today that I did 6 years ago.
What freedoms did you lose?