[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by abtech

Since this thread is in the politics forum, heated debate is nothing out of the ordinary. I think the name calling is over the top and would be better left to another website.

Lets try to be civil in these discussions.

and FYI, several Congressman's sons have fought and died in every conflict the US has fought during the past century. I served with the grandson of a former president while in the service. No special consideration was ever afforded to him either . . .

Oh and admit he got first pick of the donuts every morning

[CBRVFR]

Originally Posted by robinski

No i wont be calling on the US then the **** goes down. Due to their inefficient ways they will have already consumed all their food, destroyed all their crop lands and be in worst **** than many other places. If you look at history it has been the US who has had support from Australia in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan & Iraq not the other way around. Although we only contribute a small force to these battles relative to the US, we put in our highly trained fighters rather than using it as a method to get rid of the underprivalaged unemployed. England even sent Prince Edward to war in the Falkland Islands. You cant see congressmen sending their sons to war.

You're a total, media spoon-fed, uneducated ignoramus. If tens of thousands of American servicemen hadn't stepped up to protect Austraila and the South Pacific Islands in WWII, you'd have been totally ****ed.

And as far as calling on us when the **** hits the fan, you'll be eating US wheat this year, due to the failure of your crop. We have more tillable land and food production capacity than you by far.

The discussion about the degree of the possible and preventable deliterious human effect on the environment is too important to be left to self serving liars like presidential politicians or brain-dead parrots like yourself. Butt out.

[ConqSoft]

aussie_929?

[CBRVFR]

Cowboy1600?

[abtech]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Oh and admit he got first pick of the donuts every morning

Well I did have to call him sir, but then I had to do that to all of the senior officers . . .

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by robinski

The EPA / California is interested in the imediate surrounding air relating to smog and direct affects on humans, not indirect affects due to impacts no global climatic cycles.

like you said in another post, you gotta start out somewhere. better off curbing the smog now then wait 20 years to where there's nothing you can do about it.



the planet is dying, there's nothing we can do about it.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by robinski

...
No i wont be calling on the US then the **** goes down. Due to their inefficient ways they will have already consumed all their food, destroyed all their crop lands and be in worst **** than many other places. If you look at history it has been the US who has had support from Australia in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan & Iraq not the other way around. Although we only contribute a small force to these battles relative to the US, we put in our highly trained fighters rather than using it as a method to get rid of the under privileged unemployed. England even sent Prince Edward to war in the Falkland Islands. You cant see congressmen sending their sons to war.

I myself considered joining (with hindsight I wish I had) Also I know and work with many service members. If you think they are ignorant you have either only met the 0.5% that are or have not met any. The folks that join our military are hard working, dedicated and yes smart. Yes some come from humble houses and some of them even join to promote their status in life. That said if they apply themselves it WORKS and they succeed in life. Also we get the middle class and wealthy that volunteer. Watch less CNN (Communist News Network) and read from many sources and you will be better informed and less prone to spouting cliches'

[seamus]

Originally Posted by robinski

...Note the use of WE and US, because i am as at fault as anyone else in a developed nation which continues to pollute after knowing the potential implications.

No i wont be calling on the US then the **** goes down. Due to their inefficient ways they will have already consumed all their food, destroyed all their crop lands and be in worst **** than many other places. If you look at history it has been the US who has had support from Australia in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan & Iraq not the other way around. Although we only contribute a small force to these battles relative to the US, we put in our highly trained fighters rather than using it as a method to get rid of the underprivalaged unemployed. England even sent Prince Edward to war in the Falkland Islands. You cant see congressmen sending their sons to war.

Note the use of WE and US, then the use of I in the very next paragraph.

You've contradicted fact with every argument you posted.

First, almost half of America's harvest each year is EXPORTED to other countries for sale or as a donation to cover third world nations' inability to feed themselves. Our farmland, on top of being one of the largest fertile continuously farmed lands on the planet, also benefits from the technological advances in agriculture that are researched within the colleges and universities in the US. There is a large portion of land that is PURPOSEFULLY not utilized each year. Yet, America continues to INCREASE its output while maintaining the land's fertility. If we were to consume all of our food, all we have to do is decrease what is exported and we can continue to survive.

Second, the "underpriveleged, unemployed" you speak of is inherent in every military throughout history. Your own military is made up of the same as ours. You think Prince Anyone would join the military if it wasn't "tradition" and expected? Every military in history was made up of "peons" led by aristocrats. The difference with the US military is that this military provides more oppportunities for higher education for more people than any other "job" on the planet. The fact that many take up the offer, complete their college degree and then RETURN to military service is a testament to the educated leadership available to new, junior enlisted soldiers. Those college educated leaders then generally continue to complete masters degrees while continuing to serve. While doing so, they also happen to serve as responsible mentors for those entering the military, many of which come from "underpriveleged" households. Those you call underpriveleged and unemployed, when they do leave the military, generally leave with enough of life's lessons to be more responsible and better trained to handle life.

It seems the real "inconvenient truth" in this thread is that your arguments are based on others' opinions and hyperbole. That really has to hurt.

As for the original topic of this thread, I can't watch the movie until Christmas Day. I can say that I have heard arguments on both side of "Global Warming". My unprofessional opinion, until I can find evidence otherwise, is twofold:

1: An event as cataclysmic as what killed off the dinosaurs is not shrugged off as quickly as we would like to believe. In this case, Earth is still returning to it's pre-event state; that of a hot, steamy marshland complete with no polar ice caps.

2: The Earth does not rotate "perfectly" around the Sun. As such, things which seem like anomalies to us in our relatively short time on the planet and even shorter time of being able to record and interpret them are merely normal events in Earth's ongoing trip through the universe.

Even with those two ideas, it is still important to be good stewards of the planet that we have. It's just that some things may kill us off quicker. Earth will simply shrug off whatever we do and continue with or without us.

[robinski]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

You're a total, media spoon-fed, uneducated ignoramus. If tens of thousands of American servicemen hadn't stepped up to protect Austraila and the South Pacific Islands in WWII, you'd have been totally ****ed.

And as far as calling on us when the **** hits the fan, you'll be eating US wheat this year, due to the failure of your crop. We have more tillable land and food production capacity than you by far.

The discussion about the degree of the possible and preventable deliterious human effect on the environment is too important to be left to self serving liars like presidential politicians or brain-dead parrots like yourself. Butt out.

If you had jumped into the war early enough there wouldnt have been a war in the pacific. No you had to wait till the rest of the world was bankrupt and you were forced into it before you got involved. How convinient that you bounced back after the war better than other countries. Maybe this was because you didnt expend all of your wealth on the war but instead waited till everyone else had.

[robinski]

Originally Posted by seamus

Note the use of WE and US, then the use of I in the very next paragraph.

You've contradicted fact with every argument you posted.

First, almost half of America's harvest each year is EXPORTED to other countries for sale or as a donation to cover third world nations' inability to feed themselves. Our farmland, on top of being one of the largest fertile continuously farmed lands on the planet, also benefits from the technological advances in agriculture that are researched within the colleges and universities in the US. There is a large portion of land that is PURPOSEFULLY not utilized each year. Yet, America continues to INCREASE its output while maintaining the land's fertility. If we were to consume all of our food, all we have to do is decrease what is exported and we can continue to survive.

Second, the "underpriveleged, unemployed" you speak of is inherent in every military throughout history. Your own military is made up of the same as ours. You think Prince Anyone would join the military if it wasn't "tradition" and expected? Every military in history was made up of "peons" led by aristocrats. The difference with the US military is that this military provides more oppportunities for higher education for more people than any other "job" on the planet. The fact that many take up the offer, complete their college degree and then RETURN to military service is a testament to the educated leadership available to new, junior enlisted soldiers. Those college educated leaders then generally continue to complete masters degrees while continuing to serve. While doing so, they also happen to serve as responsible mentors for those entering the military, many of which come from "underpriveleged" households. Those you call underpriveleged and unemployed, when they do leave the military, generally leave with enough of life's lessons to be more responsible and better trained to handle life.

It seems the real "inconvenient truth" in this thread is that your arguments are based on others' opinions and hyperbole. That really has to hurt.

As for the original topic of this thread, I can't watch the movie until Christmas Day. I can say that I have heard arguments on both side of "Global Warming". My unprofessional opinion, until I can find evidence otherwise, is twofold:

1: An event as cataclysmic as what killed off the dinosaurs is not shrugged off as quickly as we would like to believe. In this case, Earth is still returning to it's pre-event state; that of a hot, steamy marshland complete with no polar ice caps.

2: The Earth does not rotate "perfectly" around the Sun. As such, things which seem like anomalies to us in our relatively short time on the planet and even shorter time of being able to record and interpret them are merely normal events in Earth's ongoing trip through the universe.

Even with those two ideas, it is still important to be good stewards of the planet that we have. It's just that some things may kill us off quicker. Earth will simply shrug off whatever we do and continue with or without us.

Stirring up Americans is like shooting fish in a barrel ..... with an AK47 . You take everying so personally. Maybe thats why terrorists attack civilians, because they get pissed off with the were the best crap you all spin.

You have such a sence that your country is the best and how dare anyone ever question that. I like Australia too, but i do recongnise its faults. It seems you too are willing to state that America does have some faults, but when ever anyone wishes to critisize, you come back with the how dare you we are the best crap.

Your soils are not as fertile as you think once all the phosphorous reserves run out. You have depleated the natural nutirent retaining capacity. You are a huge virtual water importer.

Lets have this conversation again in 10 years and see what your opinion is then.

The natural environment is a very resiliant thing, but you can only push it so far before it switches to another steady state.

Ice cores go back hundreds of thousands of years and what we are doing now is nothing like what has happened in the past. Also, in the past things happened slowly allowing species to adapt to the changes. This is happening too quickly.

Not saying the underpriveleged dont do well out of the military, if they dont get shot first. My mistake about the congressmen's sons serving, didnt realise the were on the front line. Have any died yet.

[robinski]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

I myself considered joining (with hindsight I wish I had) Also I know and work with many service members. If you think they are ignorant you have either only met the 0.5% that are or have not met any. The folks that join our military are hard working, dedicated and yes smart. Yes some come from humble houses and some of them even join to promote their status in life. That said if they apply themselves it WORKS and they succeed in life. Also we get the middle class and wealthy that volunteer. Watch less CNN (Communist News Network) and read from many sources and you will be better informed and less prone to spouting cliches'

Not saying all service men are ignorant, far from it. My brother was in the Navy for quite some time. It just seems that there has been a shift in the recruitment drive's target audience recently.

WRT CNN, dont watch the crap. I read heaps of sources which are more likely to provide an independent view of what is happening in the world than the generic media in the US. Not saying you guys have no access to independent news, you just have to proactively seek it out more. We have to more than we did 10 years ago.

[robinski]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

You're a total, media spoon-fed, uneducated ignoramus.

Next to your name it states: "None of us is as dumb as all of us."

Are you refering to your family, town or country

[robinski]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

The discussion about the degree of the possible and preventable deliterious human effect on the environment is too important to be left to self serving liars like presidential politicians or brain-dead parrots like yourself.

Oh lets leave it to the Americans to sort out. Im sure they will do a great job of fixing it seeings that they are still in denial about the problem even existing in the first place.

[Baketech]

In the bottom of each post there is an icon that allows you to use the "Multi-Quote" feature. It's a good way of handling multiple replies and keeps the page clean....

[Proto]

This is great. Just like the good old days. Isn't it about now that BDA pops up and spouts something like "It's all Bush's fault".

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by robinski

Not saying all service men are ignorant, far from it. My brother was in the Navy for quite some time. It just seems that there has been a shift in the recruitment drive's target audience recently.

WRT CNN, dont watch the crap. I read heaps of sources which are more likely to provide an independent view of what is happening in the world than the generic media in the US. Not saying you guys have no access to independent news, you just have to proactively seek it out more. We have to more than we did 10 years ago.

Sorry that is what you said, check the bold typing I highlighted in your post. When you imply they are the lower classes that cannot find any other job you may as well call them ignorant. The US is a society based on ability and hard work not classes. While wealthy parents can help get you ahead easier there is many that squander the legup, likewise starting poor does not mean you are subjugated to the ghetto as in some countries. I believe Australia is very similar to us in that respect.

I would recommend you quit making these bigotted sweeping generalizations about people unless you mean them. If you mean them then stand by it when challenged with FACTS or rethink your position.

[Proto]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

The US is a society based on ability and hard work not classes. While wealthy parents can help get you ahead easier there is many that squander the legup, likewise starting poor does not mean you are subjugated to the ghetto as in some countries. I believe Australia is very similar to us in that respect.

Sheepster, if you do a bit of research I think you'll find that social mobility in the US is not quite as you might believe. In the US (and most other places too) if you're born poor, there's a very high probability that you will stay that way.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by Proto

Sheepster, if you do a bit of research I think you'll find that social mobility in the US is not quite as you might believe. In the US (and most other places too) if you're born poor, there's a very high probability that you will stay that way.

I think you will find that statistically this is less likely in the US than most other places. Many of the largest industrial, educational, entertainment and technical empires in the US were built by either someone who started out poor or was second or third generation of extremely poor ancestry.

[bwhip]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

Cowboy1600?

That's exactly what I was thinking!

[Proto]

Originally Posted by abtech

I think you will find that statistically this is less likely in the US than most other places. Many of the largest industrial, educational, entertainment and technical empires in the US were built by either someone who started out poor or was second or third generation of extremely poor ancestry.

Abtech, I know what you say is true but you are talking of a tiny, tiny minority. The papers I have looked at suggest that both the US and the UK have less social mobility than Cananda and the Nordic countries. I'll find you some links when I've got some free time, supposed to be working right now.