[sinfuldragon]

Indiana is the place to be. someone comes in my house I can drop them where they stand no questions asked (well some questions but not many)

[Italgirl1971]

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

Indiana is the place to be. someone comes in my house I can drop them where they stand no questions asked (well some questions but not many)

I was always told to just make sure they are all the way in your house when you shoot them. If they are climbing in the window and you shoot them, just drag the body into the house before you call 911.

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by Italgirl1971

Perhaps it's just me, but I like to believe that we got the best of all worlds when we got the Constitution and its amendments in its ratified form.

I am sure it is not just you, but it certainly is not me. I think the language is too vague, can be interpreted too many "exclusive" or "inclusive" ways depending on the political and social perspectives of the given advocate/critic, and ought to be clarified in absolute layman's terms. I love a paraphrase from a part of Sir Thomas More's Utopia which in essence claims that any legal system or statutory/common system of law that is too complex or complicated for the average person to grasp intuitively, understand, or explain, is, by its very nature, unjust.

I see that with an examination of the text of the Constitution, and the tens of thousands of pages of statutory law that has followed...

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by Italgirl1971

I was always told to just make sure they are all the way in your house when you shoot them. If they are climbing in the window and you shoot them, just drag the body into the house before you call 911.

Woah, Counselor!!!!

[Italgirl1971]

Originally Posted by analogbear

Woah, Counselor!!!!

I never said it was a PROFESSIONAL opinion. Just what I've heard.

[Italgirl1971]

Originally Posted by analogbear

I am sure it is not just you, but it certainly is not me. I think the language is too vague, can be interpreted too many "exclusive" or "inclusive" ways depending on the political and social perspectives of the given advocate/critic, and ought to be clarified in absolute layman's terms. I love a paraphrase from a part of Sir Thomas More's Utopia which in essence claims that any legal system or statutory/common system of law that is too complex or complicated for the average person to grasp intuitively, understand, or explain, is, by its very nature, unjust.

I see that with an examination of the text of the Constitution, and the tens of thousands of pages of statutory law that has followed...

Did you ever consider the possibility that perhaps, as a species, we are getting dumber??

I think it was intended to be open to interpretation - thus allowing for review and modification as our society went forward. Would you like to be living in today's age stifled by 225 year old beliefs that existed in a time when people still used corn cobs to wipe their bums? (yes, I was actually taught that in college LOL... to this day i keep hoping the prof got it wrong and it was actually the husk, not the cob but )

[Jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Italgirl1971

Did you ever consider the possibility that perhaps, as a species, we are getting dumber??

Youve hit the nail on the head!

There's a theory that a society peaks about 200 years after it is established!

Ill use Australia in an example as it has not long past this point:

Ok when when we were first colonised it was manly convicts and people looking to build a new life (farmers, trades people, labourers etc) Everyone had a use and there was no place for anyone that was useless as condition were tuff, food was scarce etc etc and there was no social security to fall back on! The first 50 years-150 years everyone had to work hard or basically perish, as everything was being developed from scratch (building, bridges, roads, rail lines, industry etc etc) everyone is quite usefull to some extent!

once society becomes established and a social welfare system developed the rot starts to set in, those that dont want to have a go can sit back and smoke weed all day (or other drug of choice) and the government will pick up the tab.

These useless people then hang out with other useless people and unfortunately tend to breed (as sadly we are not allowed to sterilize people who have been on welfare for more than 6 months )

Ive noticed that this lower class of society also start breeding at a younger age (16-17 quite often) and tend to have more kids than there more well educated counter parts)

Mean while the more educated/inteligent (not always the same) members of society and those with a stronger work ethic tend to actually plan when they have children and these days seem to be delaying it for longer and longer as they try to get themselves finacially set up so they can give there children a better future before the actually stard breeding!

So what we have these days is the more "inteligent" members of society delaying parenthood and having less children, 1-3 (not a rule just a generalisation) and at the other end of the spectrum the no good for nothing pot smoking, alcohol swilling, gambling (insert other dependency/social issue here...) members of soceity getting a head start and having half a dozen kids all with different fathers...

So the longer this continues the more the ratio of "inteligent" to stupid people gets out of kilter! I hate to think what society will be like in another 100 years! It will be like 1 "smart" person to 10-15 dumbasses....

I know I have used lots of generalisations and sterotypes to get my point accross but I dont really care much for political correctness as thats another one of societies major problems these days and one of the big reasons many of todays problems are able to get so out of hand because we are'nt able to call a spade a spade! (to solve problems first you have to be able to aknowledge them)

[Italgirl1971]

Originally Posted by Jungleboy

Youve hit the nail on the head!

There's a theory that a society peaks about 200 years after it is established!

I know I have used lots of generalisations and sterotypes to get my point accross but I dont really care much for political correctness as thats another one of societies major problems these days and one of the big reasons many of todays problems are able to get so out of hand because we are'nt able to call a spade a spade! (to solve problems first you have to be able to aknowledge them)

You might be on to something here! I've been saying for a while that we're all just too hypersensitive about everything anymore - race, religion, gender, sexuality, whatever your issue du jour is. Everyone just needs to put their "big girl panties" on and deal with it, IMHO.

But I think we ought to make sure we don't give the "10-15 dumbasses" you mention the right to own firearms

[sinfuldragon]

Originally Posted by Italgirl1971

You might be on to something here! I've been saying for a while that we're all just too hypersensitive about everything anymore - race, religion, gender, sexuality, whatever your issue du jour is. Everyone just needs to put their "big girl panties" on and deal with it, IMHO.

But I think we ought to make sure we don't give the "10-15 dumbasses" you mention the right to own firearms

Hear that Jeff, you can finally wear those "big girl panties" that you have been stealing from your dates

[Italgirl1971]

you're stalking me, aren't you Sinful?

[sinfuldragon]

If you'll look the only conversation that you are in that I wasn't in long before you is the one that you started... oh yeah and you wish (such a classic comeback)

[Italgirl1971]

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

If you'll look the only conversation that you are in that I wasn't in long before you is the one that you started... oh yeah and you wish (such a classic comeback)

I think you might be one of the 10-15 Jungleboy was referring to. Time to relinquish your firearms.

[sinfuldragon]

never claimed to be the sharpest spoon in the cabinet

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by Jungleboy

I hate to think what society will be like in another 100 years! It will be like 1 "smart" person to 10-15 dumbasses....

I know I have used lots of generalisations and sterotypes to get my point accross but I dont really care much for political correctness as thats another one of societies major problems these days and one of the big reasons many of todays problems are able to get so out of hand because we are'nt able to call a spade a spade! (to solve problems first you have to be able to aknowledge them)

I think two things not mentioned in your diatribe were that the lower classes die much younger and at higher rates from easily controlled diseases, so the impact of greater breeding rates is lessened; also, the same lower classes have little impact on broad social/political policy...No political candidate ever referred to the folks living in gov't housing projects as his or her power-base...

I also hate political correctness, false modesty, stupidity, etc...I certainly don't think we are getting stupider, but I just wanted to mention that I have problems with a complicated legal system used as a weapon against the poor, uneducated, and uninitiated.

[Proto]

There is another reason why Jungleboy is possibly/partially correct. As a society stagnates the individuals who have a bit more "get up and go" tend to do just that -up sticks and move to somewhere where there is work opportunity, a chance for a better life. Economic migrants. The stale society tends to be left with the dead wood.

In the past the destinations of choice (and still are bya nd large) the USA, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. Western Europe and the UK in particular, can now be added to the list.

All evidence suggests, that if economic migration is a good thing, everyone a winner, provided the level of immigration does not overwhelm the host nation.

[CBR929RE]

"of course its clear. every American has the right to hang a pair of bear arms on their wall. how can that possibly be misconstrued?"

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

"of course its clear. every American has the right to hang a pair of bear arms on their wall. how can that possibly be misconstrued?"

[steingar]

You dudes shoud see Idiocracy. The scary thing is that after seeing it I saw a lot of things in real life that looked quite reminiscent.

And you gun owners are still far more likely to shoot yourselves or your loved ones than a member of the forces of evil coming through your door. So enjoy your guns!

[slickwill]

And you gun owners are still far more likely to shoot yourselves or your loved ones than a member of the forces of evil coming through your door. So enjoy your guns!

Not even remotely true. There are a great deal more homes successfully defended each year than there are home gun accidents.

[Cowboy1600]

Originally Posted by Jungleboy

Youve hit the nail on the head!

There's a theory that a society peaks about 200 years after it is established!

Ill use Australia in an example as it has not long past this point:

Ok when when we were first colonised it was manly convicts and people looking to build a new life (farmers, trades people, labourers etc) Everyone had a use and there was no place for anyone that was useless as condition were tuff, food was scarce etc etc and there was no social security to fall back on! The first 50 years-150 years everyone had to work hard or basically perish, as everything was being developed from scratch (building, bridges, roads, rail lines, industry etc etc) everyone is quite usefull to some extent!

once society becomes established and a social welfare system developed the rot starts to set in, those that dont want to have a go can sit back and smoke weed all day (or other drug of choice) and the government will pick up the tab.

These useless people then hang out with other useless people and unfortunately tend to breed (as sadly we are not allowed to sterilize people who have been on welfare for more than 6 months )

Wow JB, you have no idea when it comes to Australian history. Social Security was implemented post-WWII with the idea of keeping people out of the gutter should ill's befall them (eg. the Great Depression - saw hundreds of thousands of people unable to get a job or provide for their family thanks to a global economic crisis [something way out of the hands of the individual citizen]). This idea of Social Security was based on compassion and you would have been hard pressed to find someone who was against it at the time. Even the well to do sections of Australian society were strongly supportive of a welfare state.

As for the "work or perish" point, as you so simply put it, you are obviously unaware of the caliber of person that inhabited the majority of the ships that sailed here in the first few years of settlement. Many English capitalists, sensing an opportunity to invest in a new nation, came here, as well as very, very wealthy pastoralists keen to exploit a fertile and fairly restriction free budding nation. I can tell you now many of their families never lifted a single finger to help grow this nation. They generally employed ex-convicts and enslaved indigenous Australians. Being born into money, many of the kin of these people neither worked nor perished. It was generally only the working class that perished, often for reasons beyond their control.

I fear you may have spent far too much time perving on Anna Coren and Naomi Watts (who could blame you tho) and the crap that they spew forth on their shows has begun to sink in. I spent 10 years living in a depressed rural community in NSW. It is a haven for unemployed, drug addicts and the like as the cost of living is relatively affordable. I also spent a good many months on welfare as work was extremely hard to come by. From my experience with the people you are so quick to vilify, there aren't many of the typified bludgers actually existent in our society. Most of it is a beat up by (mainly conservative) media in the hope of gaining a reaction just as you have displayed.

And as for your editorial on babies, I believe our wonderful (sic) treasure, the Honorable Member for Higgins stated just a few years ago, "have one for father, one for mother and one for the nation". He then bribed people to have babies by providing a $4000 "baby bonus". What the **** kinda message does that send people?

[Cowboy1600]

Originally Posted by slickwill

Not even remotely true. There are a great deal more homes successfully defended each year than there are home gun accidents.

This goes for you and to the post you were responding too:

Care to provide some evidence?

[Jungleboy]

Originally Posted by Cowboy1600

Wow JB, you have no idea when it comes to Australian history. .

Once again Cowboy! You completely miss the point of the thread, it wasnt intended to be an indepth biograpy of Australian History, more a loose template to describe a phenomena that is taking place in many developed countries...

Originally Posted by Cowboy1600

As for the "work or perish" point, as you so simply put it, you are obviously unaware of the caliber of person that inhabited the majority of the ships that sailed here in the first few years of settlement. Many English capitalists, sensing an opportunity to invest in a new nation, came here, as well as very, very wealthy pastoralists keen to exploit a fertile and fairly restriction free budding nation. I can tell you now many of their families never lifted a single finger to help grow this nation. They generally employed ex-convicts and enslaved indigenous Australians.

If that was the case there were still a lot more hard working productive people than "bludgers" sitting back with there feet up! and that doesnt neccessarily make these capatilist's "stupid" as per the point of the whole thread (Immoral and opportunistic maybe).

Originally Posted by Cowboy1600

I spent 10 years living in a depressed rural community in NSW.

Are they still depressed now that you've left??

Originally Posted by Cowboy1600

It is a haven for unemployed, drug addicts and the like as the cost of living is relatively affordable. I also spent a good many months on welfare as work was extremely hard to come by. From my experience with the people you are so quick to vilify, there aren't many of the typified bludgers actually existent in our society.

Wow nice contradiction there Cowboy! If you think there are'nt many of the bludgers that I "typified" in our society, you do absoulutely have rocks in your head! You even supplied a prime example in the first sentance of the above paragraph, also the type of person who moves to an area you refer to as a "Haven for the unemployed" because its more affordable obviously plans on staying unemployed! Most intelligent people would move to an area that has more employment!

Also I was raised in a rural community on a dairy farm and now live in the heart of Sydney and I can tell you right now that an alarming amount of "Typified Bludgers" actually do exist in our society...

There is nothing wrong with having a welfare system, its there for a reason!

In my 20 year working history (yes I started working part time when I was 12) I have spent 4 weeks on unemployment benifits when I moved from NSW to Queensland and was between jobs. And 3 months on Sickness benifits when I severely herniated the S6 and L1 discs in my lower back (Besides rehabilitation I spent this time retraining so I had an alternative career that didnt involve physical activity in case my rehabilitation wasnt complete).

Thats what the social security system is for to support citizens in times of hardship as opposed to uselessness!

In my opinion if your on welfare for much more than 6 months your not really having a go!

Originally Posted by Cowboy1600

Most of it is a beat up by (mainly conservative) media in the hope of gaining a reaction just as you have displayed.

Oh your one of "those" get off your political high horse, not everything in the universe is the product of a political conspiracy! Quick reach for the tinfoil helmet...

Originally Posted by Cowboy1600

And as for your editorial on babies, I believe our wonderful (sic) treasure, the Honorable Member for Higgins stated just a few years ago, "have one for father, one for mother and one for the nation". He then bribed people to have babies by providing a $4000 "baby bonus". What the **** kinda message does that send people?

I actually agree with you on this one and was going to include it in my rant but was trying not to go too far off topic..

A couple who have set themselves up financially to provide a decent life for their children before actually getting knocked up would be very unlikely to be swayed by a $4000 grant.. On the other hand I can bet that Shazza and Billy BongHead would be more than willing to pump out a sixth child at the thought of getting $4k in cold hard cash (most of which would not actually be used to benifit the child).

Finally Cowboy, release the poison! every debate you enter into seems to be in a condecending, belittling, know it all mannor.. Maybe you were'nt hugged enough as a child?? No need to take it out on us!