[analogbear]

So, I was thinking today, that we (the USA) should recruit 150 of the best "real" special-ops guys from the Air Force, Army, and Navy (Read: Special Ops Tactical Wing, Space Command, Delta shooters, Special Forces Engineers and Medical sergeants, SeAL Team 6 Counter-Terror operators) with a host of language skills, and every ethnic-look represented, and just start killing the leaders of unfriendly nations, terrorist organizations, and the like. Enough is enough, and I am sick of reading about dead American boys and girls.

Diplomacy only works when there is a sense of equality, and there can't be equality in the war on terror with our current policy of not addressing the causes of anti-American fervor and the Terrorists' refusal to stop the killing...

[slickwill]

I've thought the same thing. I don't think it would take 150 even. 25-30 could probably get the job done.

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by slickwill

I've thought the same thing. I don't think it would take 150 even. 25-30 could probably get the job done.

Too few, methinks...There need to be armorers, facilities managers, etc...And, because of the breadth of cultures and languages necessary for the shooters to melt into/be fluent in, more folks would be necessary. Additionally, say 10-20 actively working in some role (even just as surveillance on a known dead-drop or something), the intensity of the mission(need to be flexible, fluid plans, lots of improvisation, very intense periods of training, etc, I think there will be a need for lots of down time in between deployments (which may or may not last too long, depending on the mission) and more likely than not a high attrition rate, and most significantly, there will probably be a high number of combat losses. I was thinking strength on the level of an Infantry company, plus.

[slickwill]

Okay, I see your point...I've spent to much time watching "The Unit"

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by slickwill

Okay, I see your point...I've spent to much time watching "The Unit"

I met CSM Haney, a plank-owner, the senior founding NCO of Delta, and a Tech Advisor to the show (and the author of the book on which they based the show, I think...Inside Delta Force, or something like that...) Scary dude. Delta started out on paper as 150 man unit, and ended up now over a thousand...And it almost got disbanded after the Desert One fiasco...

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by analogbear

So, I was thinking today, that we (the USA) should recruit 150 of the best "real" special-ops guys from the Air Force, Army, and Navy (Read: Special Ops Tactical Wing, Space Command, Delta shooters, Special Forces Engineers and Medical sergeants, SeAL Team 6 Counter-Terror operators) with a host of language skills, and every ethnic-look represented, and just start killing the leaders of unfriendly nations, terrorist organizations, and the like. Enough is enough, and I am sick of reading about dead American boys and girls.

Diplomacy only works when there is a sense of equality, and there can't be equality in the war on terror with our current policy of not addressing the causes of anti-American fervor and the Terrorists' refusal to stop the killing...

The hard work isn't carrying out the assasinations. The manpower intensive and extremely expensive tasks remain to be intelligence gathering. 150 of your best isn't going to be good enough to infiltrate, you need to incorporate local elements.

I doubt the Pentagon is actively applying diplomacy to their counter-terror agenda, but spying is definitely on the top of their list. Here's why: Bad Intel = Dead Americans. Good Intel = Surgical Precision Airstrike & Dead targets.

[slorider18]

Originally Posted by analogbear

So, I was thinking today, that we (the USA) should recruit 150 of the best "real" special-ops guys from the Air Force, Army, and Navy (Read: Special Ops Tactical Wing, Space Command, Delta shooters, Special Forces Engineers and Medical sergeants, SeAL Team 6 Counter-Terror operators) with a host of language skills, and every ethnic-look represented, and just start killing the leaders of unfriendly nations, terrorist organizations, and the like. Enough is enough, and I am sick of reading about dead American boys and girls.

Diplomacy only works when there is a sense of equality, and there can't be equality in the war on terror with our current policy of not addressing the causes of anti-American fervor and the Terrorists' refusal to stop the killing...

you think too much ...today i'm going out on the twisties, that way i don't have to think.

[slorider18]

good idea by the way.

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by FantasyGod

The hard work isn't carrying out the assasinations. The manpower intensive and extremely expensive tasks remain to be intelligence gathering. 150 of your best isn't going to be good enough to infiltrate, you need to incorporate local elements.

I doubt the Pentagon is actively applying diplomacy to their counter-terror agenda, but spying is definitely on the top of their list. Here's why: Bad Intel = Dead Americans. Good Intel = Surgical Precision Airstrike & Dead targets.

The most man-power and financially-costly aspects are, you are absolutely correct, infiltration, intelligence gathering, and the analysis of elint, humint, and history...

However, we are already doing that part (perhaps not well, but wouldn't that be another thread's topic?), and what we are not doing is carrying out illegal killings, and terrorist-style attacks on the terrorists (and other unfriendly nations), and that is what I was suggesting in a fit of macho-pique...

Obviously, it is all testosterone-driven fantasy, but I would really like to see greater operational use in a practical sense, of our elite forces...I have friend who is a Ranger (75th Reg- a real Ranger, not tab-only) and spends his deployment in Iraq teaching regular units to perform vehicle searches, and stuff, rather than conducting raids or other combat ops...I don't get it...

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by analogbear

and what we are not doing is carrying out illegal killings, and terrorist-style attacks on the terrorists (and other unfriendly nations)...

Who says we don't do this? National security is not public knowledge. A Ex-FSB operative doesn't just die of radiation posioning at random. CIA run similar operations without being sloppy all the time. Because they don't get caught very often doesn't mean the dirty work isn't carried out.

[fl-929]

Originally Posted by analogbear

So, I was thinking today, that we (the USA) should recruit 150 of the best "real" special-ops guys from the Air Force, Army, and Navy (Read: Special Ops Tactical Wing, Space Command, Delta shooters, Special Forces Engineers and Medical sergeants, SeAL Team 6 Counter-Terror operators) with a host of language skills, and every ethnic-look represented, and just start killing the leaders of unfriendly nations, terrorist organizations, and the like. Enough is enough, and I am sick of reading about dead American boys and girls.

Diplomacy only works when there is a sense of equality, and there can't be equality in the war on terror with our current policy of not addressing the causes of anti-American fervor and the Terrorists' refusal to stop the killing...

This type of group already exists

[jaim]

I think organizations like this do exist but unfortunately I think they infiltrate opposition groups and help them to destablize a country we want destablized. And for what purpose you might ask. Well to bolster the need for military appropriations, to damage trade agreements between countries the U.S. doesn't want trading with each other, to all corporations to get a foothold in a country they might not have been able to get into before, the list goes on and on.

Hatred towards the U.S. isn't some emotion developed overnight. There are usually some very deep and justifiable reasons people around the world hate the U.S. Sure there are fanatics but when leaders of countries who would benefit from being our allies hate us something more is going on.

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by fl-929

This type of group already exists

No, it does not. One of the first things they impress upon you when you test for Delta (I did not get selected) is that, contrary to popular opinion, NO secret unit in the military (and there are at least 3 that are not on the general accounting books at all) conducts actually-illegal operations, in direct contravention of the clauses of the Geneva Convention, treaties, and executive orders. That is why this was a fantasy. My former unit, (after I left) although having the somewhat dubious honor of rescuing jessica fisher, killed people as a primary job description. Not "trained to" but actually did the deed...And generally not during some large force-mobilization, either...But again, though we worked with everybody, nobody was doing what I advocate here.

Originally Posted by jaim

I think organizations like this do exist but unfortunately I think they infiltrate opposition groups and help them to destablize a country we want destablized. And for what purpose you might ask. Well to bolster the need for military appropriations, to damage trade agreements between countries the U.S. doesn't want trading with each other, to all corporations to get a foothold in a country they might not have been able to get into before, the list goes on and on.

Hatred towards the U.S. isn't some emotion developed overnight. There are usually some very deep and justifiable reasons people around the world hate the U.S. Sure there are fanatics but when leaders of countries who would benefit from being our allies hate us something more is going on.

Well, according to the Marshall Plan, we have been doing some of what you say for decades...But, these were not surgical strike assasination teams like I suggest, but more an inter disciplinary team sponsored by US intelligence directors to gain control or influence of a particular gov't/region/sphere of influence.

[FantasyGod]

I doubt Intelligence agencies follow the same conventions as the military. Just the about the only the CIA is limited from doing is domestic spying. Everything else is still on the table. That's not to say that CIA wouldn't request logistical support from the military.

[analogbear]

They are not allowed to assasinate of heads of state.

[SamoanzRR]

[FantasyGod]

Originally Posted by analogbear

They are not allowed to assasinate of heads of state.

I'm sure they would've nailed Saddam if they knew where he was.

[analogbear]

It was our guys who got him, and they didn't kill him when they had the chance...