[.OrgOwner]

Ask not what you can do.....

[Fishboy]

WORST PRESIDENT EVER!!!

[dicknose]

I dont remember voting for him?
Maybe he is just the leader of a country - not the free world (and if he had his way the world wouldnt be very free!)

[.OrgOwner]

Most people don't remember voting for him ....

[dicknose]

I did vote for the Queen!!

We had a referendum to decide if we wanted to change from a constitutional monarchy to a republic I voted against the republic, yes I voted to keep Queen Liz (of Australia)

[Surffrog]

Sad day for America when he got 'voted' in. Even more so the second time. Surely Baby Bush is proof-positive that it's not what you know it's who you know...
Fairplay Dicknose, I think you're the first Ozzie I've come across that actually voted for the old girl. All the one's I've spoken to over here not only voted the other way, but were extremely scathing about her, too. So, if you don't mind me asking, what were your reasons for voting her in?

[dicknose]

Well since the referendum failed we did have a lot vote against it - although Id say that many of those voted it down because of the method of choosing the president rather than a desire to keep the queen.

Me - I like the idea of having a queen. And I think we get it good in that we dont have to pay to keep her (but conversely dont get tourists coming to see Buk palace)
I also think Liz is a pretty good queen. Id imagine a republic vote would be vastly different if Charles was in charge (hey sounds like a good name for a tv show)

[clive crompton]

Originally Posted by Fishboy

WORST PRESIDENT EVER!!!

Where;s is DOG..........

[.OrgOwner]

So does anyone know who has bought the next US election? Is the bidding still open?

[steven0367]

pepsi or the golden arches?

[Surffrog]

Both, it's a joint venture. That's capitalism for you!

[denzee]

George W may not be the best speaker at times but I'd take him over 10 Hillary's or Obama's or any other Dem. for that matter. Just ask yourself who the terrorsts would rather have in power. At least the US has not had another terrorist event since 911. That's not by chance. This should spark some replies!

[.OrgOwner]

It's always good to get another take on things, I mean someone must have voted for him right?

[denzee]

Thanks for being open Orgowner. I wasn't able to vote because I'm a Canadian but thankfully enough did. I'll tell you something, you guys vote in a bunch of Liberals, it won't be long before you wish you had W back. He doesn't stand down, sticks to his principles and the terrorists hate it. If you know anything about them, it's they thrive on weakness. It's already bad enough that the US is so divided. That energizes them to push ahead with their agenda. Yes it's painful being there but the alternative is unimaginable. In their eyes we are all infidels and must all die. It doesn't matter to them what side of the fence you're on. The sooner the US puts politics aside, works together, the better off you'll be. Unfortunately that won't happen anytime soon. Aside from all that, I love my cbr 1000rr.

[slickwill]

Originally Posted by denzee

Thanks for being open Orgowner. I wasn't able to vote because I'm a Canadian but thankfully enough did. I'll tell you something, you guys vote in a bunch of Liberals, it won't be long before you wish you had W back. He doesn't stand down, sticks to his principles and the terrorists hate it. If you know anything about them, it's they thrive on weakness. It's already bad enough that the US is so divided. That energizes them to push ahead with their agenda. Yes it's painful being there but the alternative is unimaginable. In their eyes we are all infidels and must all die. It doesn't matter to them what side of the fence you're on. The sooner the US puts politics aside, works together, the better off you'll be. Unfortunately that won't happen anytime soon. Aside from all that, I love my cbr 1000rr.

Exactly, x3.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by denzee

Thanks for being open Orgowner. I wasn't able to vote because I'm a Canadian but thankfully enough did. I'll tell you something, you guys vote in a bunch of Liberals, it won't be long before you wish you had W back. He doesn't stand down, sticks to his principles and the terrorists hate it. If you know anything about them, it's they thrive on weakness. It's already bad enough that the US is so divided. That energizes them to push ahead with their agenda. Yes it's painful being there but the alternative is unimaginable. In their eyes we are all infidels and must all die. It doesn't matter to them what side of the fence you're on. The sooner the US puts politics aside, works together, the better off you'll be. Unfortunately that won't happen anytime soon. Aside from all that, I love my cbr 1000rr.

I truly cannot see how on earth anyone can think this of Bush except Bush himself. I'm sorry to say this but he is an idiot. He is inarticulate, uneducated in world geography (although he's had a crash course on that subject now) and suffers greatly by allowing others to control his emotions. He couldn't even run his businesses successfully let alone America. Please don't think that I'm saying this just to get on the anti-American popular vote. I'm not. I have quite a few American friends who also feel the same way about him.
In addtion, your implied view that there's a bunch of terrorists all hundled over a campfire scratching their heads wondering why the hell Bush isn't running scared, is laughable. They want, and always knew this would be, a war of attrition. The US will withdraw at some time, it's just a matter of when. So they will continue to hit America financially. How? Simply by continuing to fight. The American war-machine, while devastating to its opponents, is extemely costly. Theirs isn't even a drop in the ocean by comparision.

[denzee]

Originally Posted by Surffrog

I truly cannot see how on earth anyone can think this of Bush except Bush himself. I'm sorry to say this but he is an idiot. He is inarticulate, uneducated in world geography (although he's had a crash course on that subject now) and suffers greatly by allowing others to control his emotions. He couldn't even run his businesses successfully let alone America. Please don't think that I'm saying this just to get on the anti-American popular vote. I'm not. I have quite a few American friends who also feel the same way about him.
In addtion, your implied view that there's a bunch of terrorists all hundled over a campfire scratching their heads wondering why the hell Bush isn't running scared, is laughable. They want, and always knew this would be, a war of attrition. The US will withdraw at some time, it's just a matter of when. So they will continue to hit America financially. How? Simply by continuing to fight. The American war-machine, while devastating to its opponents, is extemely costly. Theirs isn't even a drop in the ocean by comparision.

Sorry Surffrog but I think you have been hanging around the water cooler too long. I'm certainly not going to change your views nor you mine but I have read and seen many interviews of people that surround the President and they say incredible things about him. When you take compilations of his speaking screw ups and put them all together, yeh it's funny. Meanwhile he has made likely hundreds of speeches over the last 7 years and for the great majority they are excellent but you probably haven't taken the time to listen to any except youtube. Do you think Tony Blair is an idiot too? How about John Howard? This war is not good but it is necessary to finish what was started. After the US pull out, they and every other Country will continue to fight this war. I get tired of other Countries sitting back while America does all the dirty work and just constantly get criticized for it and sadly by many of their own. If America is hated around the world like many suggest, it's because of one thing. Jelousy! America is far from perfect and so is Canada and England but it's far better than the mess they live in, in the Middle East and other places around the world. Please go to this link to hear Byron McGregor speak about the Americans. This was made locally here where I live. It was done in 1973 and I find it amazing how it still applies today more than ever.
LiveLeak.com - The Americans - by Gordon Sinclair

Sorry for being long winded on this one

[babisgr]

i know one thing......you americans are going to destroy to world.

[.OrgOwner]

Originally Posted by babisgr

i know one thing......you americans are going to destroy to world.

Amazing how people like to point the finger at the US, the UK, Canada and even Australia while at the same time half the world is trying to get IN to these places to live. I think it was Blair who said "the measure of a countries success is how many people want in and how many people want out". When your country and it's people are letter perfect then you can start to throw stones. Western lifestyle culture spreads because the rest of the world wants a slice of it right or wrong. Show me a better model.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by denzee

Sorry Surffrog but I think you have been hanging around the water cooler too long. I'm certainly not going to change your views nor you mine but I have read and seen many interviews of people that surround the President and they say incredible things about him. When you take compilations of his speaking screw ups and put them all together, yeh it's funny. Meanwhile he has made likely hundreds of speeches over the last 7 years and for the great majority they are excellent but you probably haven't taken the time to listen to any except youtube. Do you think Tony Blair is an idiot too? How about John Howard? This war is not good but it is necessary to finish what was started. After the US pull out, they and every other Country will continue to fight this war. I get tired of other Countries sitting back while America does all the dirty work and just constantly get criticized for it and sadly by many of their own. If America is hated around the world like many suggest, it's because of one thing. Jelousy! America is far from perfect and so is Canada and England but it's far better than the mess they live in, in the Middle East and other places around the world. Please go to this link to hear Byron McGregor speak about the Americans. This was made locally here where I live. It was done in 1973 and I find it amazing how it still applies today more than ever.
LiveLeak.com - The Americans - by Gordon Sinclair

Sorry for being long winded on this one

Hey Denzee,
First, I did say, or at the very least imply, that I wasn't anti-American. America will always have its critics, partly for the reasons you stated but also because you can't please all the people all the time. And America is, unfortunately, damned if it does and damned if it doesn't. Everybody gets annoyed when the US gets involved with other countries political disputes, but equally so when it doesn't.
In reference to my knowledge source; on the contrary, I spend a lot of time watching and reading the news from many different media sources and countries. I'm nowhere near a water cooler and I draw my own conclusions.
While you may well be right that Bush has made may speeches that were articulate, these are not what mark the man who has made so many mistakes. There have been one hell of a lot of other presidents that haven't made anywhere near as many. Not even close. period.
If you want the outside world to respect the country, the leader must be both articulate and charismatic. While I dislike Blair and disagree with him on so many things I won't bother to list them, those outside the UK seem to love him. Why? Because he is articulate and charismatic. The US was experiencing it's greatest popularity (from the outside) when Clinton was in the hot seat. Why? I think you know already.
The first indications that Bush knew little of the outside world (other than the fact that he had no foreign policy) was in an interview with the BBC. They asked (pre 9/11) what was the name of the president of Pakistan. Bush said, "the general."
BBC reporter: "Yes, he is, but what is his name?"
Bush: "I just call him the general."
In addition, he later referred to Pakistanis using what they consider to be a deeply offensive term. 'Pakies.' Major fights used to break out over the use of that word in the UK
Where Blair is concerned, I consider him an articulate and charismatic lap dog to Bush. He has only ever considered his own position. How many other leaders have gone on a 'goodbye tour' around the world on tax-payers money. None that I recall, ever. He's got a nice job now I see and is getting paid $500,000 for a 20 minute speech in China. The sponsor for the event even paid Blair's tax for him. Just to put a bench mark on that, Clinton at the same event just a couple of years ago was paid a mere $260,000 and he paid his own tax.
Blair's gone now, so is Howard. Bush next. However, we will continue to live with their legacy for many, many years to come.

[babisgr]

Originally Posted by .OrgOwner

Amazing how people like to point the finger at the US, the UK, Canada and even Australia while at the same time half the world is trying to get IN to these places to live. I think it was Blair who said "the measure of a countries success is how many people want in and how many people want out". When your country and it's people are letter perfect then you can start to throw stones. Western lifestyle culture spreads because the rest of the world wants a slice of it right or wrong. Show me a better model.

you must know it better than me.....Hollywood and the whole movies industries had something to do with it.....
y country certenly isnt perfect,not even close,but we are not responsible fot the death of thousand of innocent people in the other side of the globe.
You want a better model.....CUBA...its right next to you...

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by babisgr

you must know it better than me.....Hollywood and the whole movies industries had something to do with it.....
y country certenly isnt perfect,not even close,but we are not responsible fot the death of thousand of innocent people in the other side of the globe.
You want a better model.....CUBA...its right next to you...

Babisgr. Other than philosophy, the olympic games and certain aspects of mathematics, the only things the Greeks have given the world are beards and buggery!

If you want to continue a sensible debate on this matter, I'm all for it. But I strongly suggest you take time out to consider how your highly-regarded ancestors might approach this subject. You say, "I know... you Americans are going to destroy the world." Well, if that's the case, please enlighten us as to who your sources are, as they must truly be all-knowing, if they can see into the future.

For your information, there are only two things worth mentioning about Cuba, and they hardly constitute a model country (though they would certainly help): Cigars and women!

[dattaway]

Bush cannot ride a motorcycle. Bush cannot lead a country.

[babisgr]

who talked about greece?i just said that its far far from ideal...
Usa has the more nuclear power on the planet...and they dont have it for defencing reasons.I just holpe the history repeats its self..(look at the roman empire).As far as cuba...its a hell of a model country to you considering the health system etc...look how catrina and other dissaster affected the usa and how cuba...they evacuated millions of people without bleeding a nose.
And given the embargo,propaganda from the usa,you mast admit they have ideals other than the $.
Anyway,dont try to convince us that the whole world wants to be a citizen of usa and uk....you are talking about third world countrys that your goverment exploits its wealth (oil) and are kept without education...
About my "highly regarded ancestors"....i wouldnt think that you had any kind of apreciaton for them...after all you just a couple 100 years old country...who slottered their real native americans...
forgive my bad english...some times i cant express my self in english as i would like.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by babisgr

who talked about greece?i just said that its far far from ideal...
Usa has the more nuclear power on the planet...and they dont have it for defencing reasons.I just holpe the history repeats its self..(look at the roman empire).As far as cuba...its a hell of a model country to you considering the health system etc...look how catrina and other dissaster affected the usa and how cuba...they evacuated millions of people without bleeding a nose.
And given the embargo,propaganda from the usa,you mast admit they have ideals other than the $.
Anyway,dont try to convince us that the whole world wants to be a citizen of usa and uk....you are talking about third world countrys that your goverment exploits its wealth (oil) and are kept without education...
About my "highly regarded ancestors"....i wouldnt think that you had any kind of apreciaton for them...after all you just a couple 100 years old country...who slottered their real native americans...
forgive my bad english...some times i cant express my self in english as i would like.

Ok, Babisgr I'll try and cover the points you raised:
1. America certainly does have more nuclear capability than any other country. Their arsenal began its build-up during the cold-war era with Russia, when Russia was at its most threating toward them. Russia had nukes and was up-scaling its operations. So the US did, too. I, personally would call that defensive reasoning. As for whether there has been further nuclear weapons build-up, I'm not qualified to say, but I'm fairly sure someone on this site would be able to field that question for you.
2. Only the future will show if history will repeat itself, but I would hope that we all learn from its lessons and not make the same mistakes. Why? Because the stakes being played today would make the collapse of the Roman Empire look like nothing more than a school yard bully getting his comeuppance.
3. As for health care, I think it was the British who started the national health care system, which was great at the time but sadly flawed, as it did not take in to consideration the growth of a population. It's on its knees now and I believe its death has only been prolonged because so many in the UK decided to go private, which took a lot of pressure off it. I think you need to reassess the health care standards in Cuba, I don't believe they're as healthy as you think.
4. Unfortunately, those in power in communist countries would have you believe that they are following a higher goal than just money. However, the reality is often very different. The leaders of communist countries (Cuba included) are usually very wealthy, they just hide it from the people, who really don't have any money.
5. Babisgr, I haven't tried to convince anybody that the whole world wants to live in the UK or US. Nevertheless, a lot of people do wish to. I can't speak for the US but in Britain, it's not surprising. Our government has for many years offered free housing plus benefits (cash and incentives) to those from other countries. If you're an English man hard-up on your luck, perhaps devorced or made unemployed, you're stuffed. No free housing and very little by way of assistance until you get back on your feet. I have no wish to claim Britain as great anymore, because it isn't. Please note, I no longer live there.
6. Actually, I have a great regard for your ancestors. Some of the greatest thinkers in the known-world came from Greece, which is why I mentioned them. In addition, Britain is quite a bit older than just a few hundred years. You need to read up a bit more on your history. And, by the way, Britain, while having committed many atrocities during its existence, didn't kill the native American Indian, the Americans did. So you'll need to address one of them on that issue.
And please don't worry about your bad English. You're expressing yourself far better in English than I could ever hope to in Greek.
Regards
Surffrog

[babisgr]

"Britain is quite a bit older than just a few hundred years. You need to read up a bit more on your history"