[FB1000inPA]

The author's name that wrote that article is Fatimah Ali!!

Fatimah Ali: We need Obama, not 4 more years of George Bush | Philadelphia Daily News | 09/02/2008

Now please tell me who plays the race card???

[Surffrog]

I think that's the least of your worries. The US news teams today (Fox for example) are so concerned that people might actually believe the jokes coming from the Saturday night live comedians more than them that they're wasting air-time trying to counter what was said.

That's far more telling and damning than whether of not either of these idiots pull the race card. How the hell did you guys end up with such a p*ss poor choice for president again? It almost defies belief

[.OrgOwner]

Yes its amazing Surf, I look at the two guys running and I shake my head. How the hell? exactly.

[Surffrog]

The fact that it's those two standing for election makes me feel the cards were well and truly stacked unfairly. If that's true, it doesn't really matter who you vote for or why. The "real" boss is sitting quietly somewhere smoking a cigarette, stroking a white Persian cat, calling himself Ernst and saying, "Buzinezz as uzual, my Friendz!"

[dr256]

The only reference to race in that article is below:

"If McCain wins, look for a full-fledged race and class war, fueled by a deflated and depressed country, soaring crime, homelessness - and hopelessness!"

And in context, she is saying that if the wealthiest members of your nation keep up the current economic path to disaster the poorest members of your nation will become increasingly disenfranchised.

This is not a "race card" this is an article about the poor getting f**ked by the rich and the fact that, as she sees it, the republicans will do nothing to address the increasing divide between the rich and the poor.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by dr256

The only reference to race in that article is below:

"If McCain wins, look for a full-fledged race and class war, fueled by a deflated and depressed country, soaring crime, homelessness - and hopelessness!"

And in context, she is saying that if the wealthiest members of your nation keep up the current economic path to disaster the poorest members of your nation will become increasingly disenfranchised.

This is not a "race card" this is an article about the poor getting f**ked by the rich and the fact that, as she sees it, the republicans will do nothing to address the increasing divide between the rich and the poor.

What's the problem, Dr? The poor have been getting fu*ked since forever...
Maybe that's why there's so many of 'em

[dr256]

arf arf!!

[Surffrog]

Glad you liked it

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by dr256

This is not a "race card" this is an article about the poor getting f**ked by the rich and the fact that, as she sees it, the republicans will do nothing to address the increasing divide between the rich and the poor.

There's an answer. I could see this only happening once and then the poor learn how important the rich are. You elect your president and pay the taxes they set; others will vote for the other guy. At the end of four years, the poor will be worse off. Why is that. Because the rich didn't vote for the guy that promised visions of gander for the poor. The poor did and now he has no way to pay for the services the poor enjoy. No money from people that have no money means they get nothing.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

There's an answer. I could see this only happening once and then the poor learn how important the rich are. You elect your president and pay the taxes they set; others will vote for the other guy. At the end of four years, the poor will be worse off. Why is that. Because the rich didn't vote for the guy that promised visions of gander for the poor. The poor did and now he has no way to pay for the services the poor enjoy. No money from people that have no money means they get nothing.

That works both ways, Ian. Once in power, the guy that did promise to help spends the first 2-3 years meeting with lobbyists for the rich. There are no real lobbyists for the poor. Ergo, the poor get fu*k all all the time.

[steingar]

The Republicans won't be happy until the USA is Feudal

[DragonRider]

There is so much partial truths and spin from and about both of these candidates that you would need to have spent the last four years reading and studying all thier voting records and comments and then speaking about it in full truths with no bias to have it make sense to all, in essene dumbing it down to laymen terms for it to actually have any effect on the outcome of the Presidential voting. Even then, most Americans don't hear what they don't want to hear and only take the what they do want to hear to heart and stand behind it. There are two voters here, those whow vote for black or white and those that vote for experience and inexperience(fresh/new). This is not a hit for either candidate, just what I see as how Americans will vote. I am a veteran and believe in experience, it just sucks that here we are preparing a case for the lesser of two incorrect choices again when picking the leader of this Nation. God help us all, I think both have good qualities but at the same time disagree with some of each of their policies....ugh....there will be discontent with whoever wins, as usual.

[ozthis]

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

The author's name that wrote that article is Fatimah Ali!!

Fatimah Ali: We need Obama, not 4 more years of George Bush | Philadelphia Daily News | 09/02/2008

Now please tell me who plays the race card???

Dont know if you know this but not everything on the internet is true

[FB1000inPA]

Originally Posted by ozthis

Dont know if you know this but not everything on the internet is true

I absolutely agree with you.

[fastdreams]

The U.S. is not a socialist country. Why should the U.S. citizens stand for forced wealth redistribution? You are free to make as much money as you can. Performance pays. Is it any different in the UK? Are there not poor everywhere?

Poor becomes a state of mind. Education is the answer.

[DragonRider]

Originally Posted by fastdreams

The U.S. is not a socialist country. Why should the U.S. citizens stand for forced wealth redistribution? You are free to make as much money as you can. Performance pays. Is it any different in the UK? Are there not poor everywhere?

Poor becomes a state of mind. Education is the answer.

...I feel very fotunate to be not be in the poor class, having only a High School education even! I wonder if the roles were reversed though if I wouldn't be screaming from the mountain tops about my plight?

[fastdreams]

Originally Posted by DragonRider

...I feel very fotunate to be not be in the poor class, having only a High School education even! I wonder if the roles were reversed though if I wouldn't be screaming from the mountain tops about my plight?

Could well be. There are a lot of factors in the poor state of mind, as I see it.

Many environmental factors contribute to that from early on in your life. If you are born into what feels like a hopeless situation, it's very difficult to see the forest for the trees.

A poor culture perpetuates a poor culture (talking about localized cultures, say a particular neighborhood) where very few break out and see the world with open eyes. In some hoods, it is common to have a negative attitude towards do-gooders that are trying to succeed. As children we succumb to this peer pressure and only strive to achieve what others and we ourselves come to believe we are capable of achieving.

Gotta pop that bubble for as many youth as we can.

The right kind of education is the way to solve poverty. The last thing a poor state of mind driven group of people need is a pat on the back and fat check. They need to be believed in, they need to have high expectations for themselves and from others around them.

It sounds too simple, maybe I'm too idealistic <shrug>

[DragonRider]

Originally Posted by fastdreams

Could well be. There are a lot of factors in the poor state of mind, as I see it.

Many environmental factors contribute to that from early on in your life. If you are born into what feels like a hopeless situation, it's very difficult to see the forest for the trees.

A poor culture perpetuates a poor culture (talking about localized cultures, say a particular neighborhood) where very few break out and see the world with open eyes. In some hoods, it is common to have a negative attitude towards do-gooders that are trying to succeed. As children we succumb to this peer pressure and only strive to achieve what others and we ourselves come to believe we are capable of achieving.

Gotta pop that bubble for as many youth as we can.

The right kind of education is the way to solve poverty. The last thing a poor state of mind driven group of people need is a pat on the back and fat check. They need to be believed in, they need to have high expectations for themselves and from others around them.

It sounds too simple, maybe I'm too idealistic <shrug>

....no hand outs, everyone wants to feel like they have earned an honest days pay, pride seems to or should get in the way of a hand out. Hmm..how do we do what you say we should do, that should be the question we ask and hold Obama/McCain accountable for? Maybe better salaries for teachers, maybe a sliding scale for improvement and performance using a threshold of graduates and SAT scores...who knows. I think they tried something like that already with the MCASS testing in No Child Left behind, this will or did not work because of the lack of funding for the teachers, lack of motivation for the teachers, lack of support by the parents and relatives, lack of law enforcement to get the gangs out of the schools they were targeting, ad infinitum...

[nedro]

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

The author's name that wrote that article is Fatimah Ali!!

Fatimah Ali: We need Obama, not 4 more years of George Bush | Philadelphia Daily News | 09/02/2008

Now please tell me who plays the race card???

Well, earlier this year, Billery did. And now Impailin' Palen is. What's you point???

[FB1000inPA]

Originally Posted by nedro

Well, earlier this year, Billery did. And now Impailin' Palen is. What's you point???

You did read the article, didn't you?

[fastdreams]

Originally Posted by DragonRider

....no hand outs, everyone wants to feel like they have earned an honest days pay, pride seems to or should get in the way of a hand out. Hmm..how do we do what you say we should do, that should be the question we ask and hold Obama/McCain accountable for? Maybe better salaries for teachers, maybe a sliding scale for improvement and performance using a threshold of graduates and SAT scores...who knows. I think they tried something like that already with the MCASS testing in No Child Left behind, this will or did not work because of the lack of funding for the teachers, lack of motivation for the teachers, lack of support by the parents and relatives, lack of law enforcement to get the gangs out of the schools they were targeting, ad infinitum...

How-to...that IS the question.

Every gov't sponsored plan has been a failure in that regard. Even the best public schools are dumbed down for all, rather than prodding each individual to his or her own best. Not everyone is meant to be a student, not everyone is meant to be a scientist, not everyone is meant to be in the trades.

For the poorest schools, there really is not much you can do.
Standardized testing is useless, more pay for teachers will be a pebble in the ocean. The failure itself stems from the group affected by the failure. A grassroots effort might work, and in some hot spots, by a few hard workers, there is some of that working for a few. It's an uphill battle. Maybe strategically placed covert ops specialists could instigate the movement so that takes hold.

[lanbrown]

Originally Posted by Surffrog

That works both ways, Ian. Once in power, the guy that did promise to help spends the first 2-3 years meeting with lobbyists for the rich. There are no real lobbyists for the poor. Ergo, the poor get fu*k all all the time.

No they don't. if the rick had to pay taxes for their elected official only and the poor did the same; who gets fu*ked. The rich don't but the poor really do as all the free services they have now would no longer be available as there would be no money to pay for them. The rick are the ones that get fu*ked as they are paying for their share and the share of others while there are others that don't pay a dime and just take from the system.

In the US Fannie Mae and Freddy mac were giving loans to people who normally wouldn't be able to afford a house. Is that the fault of the rich that they normally wouldn't be able to afford a house but now they get a loan that they cannot repay?

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by DragonRider

Even then, most Americans don't hear what they don't want to hear and only take the what they do want to hear to heart and stand behind it.

Not just Americans, mate. Every nationality is like that. Some do try to read between the lines but, sadly, precious few.

Originally Posted by fastdreams

Could well be. There are a lot of factors in the poor state of mind, as I see it.

Many environmental factors contribute to that from early on in your life. If you are born into what feels like a hopeless situation, it's very difficult to see the forest for the trees.

A poor culture perpetuates a poor culture (talking about localized cultures, say a particular neighborhood) where very few break out and see the world with open eyes. In some hoods, it is common to have a negative attitude towards do-gooders that are trying to succeed. As children we succumb to this peer pressure and only strive to achieve what others and we ourselves come to believe we are capable of achieving.

Gotta pop that bubble for as many youth as we can.

The right kind of education is the way to solve poverty. The last thing a poor state of mind driven group of people need is a pat on the back and fat check. They need to be believed in, they need to have high expectations for themselves and from others around them.

Well said, and rep given

Originally Posted by lanbrown

No they don't. if the rick had to pay taxes for their elected official only and the poor did the same; who gets fu*ked. The rich don't but the poor really do as all the free services they have now would no longer be available as there would be no money to pay for them. The rick are the ones that get fu*ked as they are paying for their share and the share of others while there are others that don't pay a dime and just take from the system.

Sorry, Ian. My bad. We were talking at crossed purposes because I misunderstood you. I was also being too flippant about a serious issue.

To clarify:
When I say fu*cked (a word I don't often use and one I wish I hadn't here) I meant in overall terms - living in poor slum-like areas with very little in the way of support.

By support, I don't mean keep giving the poor free services and facilities, which robs them of dignity and any desire to fight their way out. I mean give training to those people who REALLY want out and SHOW them the way forward.

I personally believe that while taxation of the rich is not particularly fair, it doesn't actually fu*k them up. However, I accept that it may make things harder and most certainly creates further division (if that were possible) of animosity.

[ghbzorro]

Originally Posted by lanbrown

In the US Fannie Mae and Freddy mac were giving loans to people who normally wouldn't be able to afford a house. Is that the fault of the rich that they normally wouldn't be able to afford a house but now they get a loan that they cannot repay?

Not necessarily with Freddy mac and Fanny Mae, but IF my understanding is correct, millions in bonuses paid to senior bank executives because of all the mortgages that were sold that "would eventually" make big money for the lenders. And then the risky debts bundled nto a never-before-seen product and re-sold at a profit by hiding the level of risk with fancy names. Likewise, millions of bonuses paid to insurance company executives who were able to sell insurance to the banks agains the mortgages being defaulted Nice case flow until things start to go sour.

Maybe I have the wrong impression?

[bettingpython]

Originally Posted by DragonRider

...I feel very fotunate to be not be in the poor class, having only a High School education even! I wonder if the roles were reversed though if I wouldn't be screaming from the mountain tops about my plight?

I have been in the reversed position, difference is I feel now just as I felt then. I have always been rather conservative, I was smart enough to recognize that oppurtunities came becasue of the over all wealth and oppurtunities our nation provided, and that the only way the left would remain in power was by keeping poor people poor Never got a job from a poor man.

I have a HS education, tested for my GED in 2002, I dropped out of school in 1989. I don't have a degree but have taken some college classes that pertained to my specific field and am a systems administrator for IBM iSeries mini-computers and a mixed mode network environment including windows and linux servers. I'm always going to work for someone else because I don't have a degree, but I will always be in demand in a very narrow field that if it goes away will leave me in the poor house again.

[Stick]

My 2 cents is.... The race war is what the Obama campaign wants. Race SHOULD be a mute point,(and it is) I have made GRAVE mis-disicions in MY life. I do not and SHOULD NOT expect uncle sam to baby me out of my faults! I signed up for it, It is MINE ALONE to carry and get through. I would rather suffer my own hardships, and be more or less forced to put up or shut up, than be babied through life.

Leave me alone goverment.

[soupythemedic]

What ever happened to politicians and presidents like RONALD REAGAN?? Its a bunch of people just out for themselves, padding their resume's.

[SevenStar1000RR]

The fact is that America was and is a class system know your role B*****.
and the answer is not education. If everyone is educated then every one will have self asteem and there would be no porn stars well not as many and then where would we be with our high speed internet that EVERYBODY has. And by EVERYBODY I'm including the people that can't pay for food that are poor but can afford cable TV Internet and 16% intrest on a SUV.
Its called living within your means and Americans need to start doing it and being more responsible. ok I'm done

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by SevenStar1000RR

The fact is that America was and is a class system know your role B*****.
and the answer is not education. If everyone is educated then every one will have self asteem and there would be no porn stars well not as many and then where would we be with our high speed internet that EVERYBODY has. And by EVERYBODY I'm including the people that can't pay for food that are poor but can afford cable TV Internet and 16% intrest on a SUV.
Its called living within your means and Americans need to start doing it and being more responsible. ok I'm done

This is a pointless and meaningless rant. Offer something of value or don't bother contributing.

[MelScrilla]

Originally Posted by Stick

My 2 cents is.... The race war is what the Obama campaign wants. Race SHOULD be a mute point,(and it is) I have made GRAVE mis-disicions in MY life. I do not and SHOULD NOT expect uncle sam to baby me out of my faults! I signed up for it, It is MINE ALONE to carry and get through. I would rather suffer my own hardships, and be more or less forced to put up or shut up, than be babied through life.

Leave me alone goverment.

I'm glad you feel this way, but i just wish all the Corporations that vote Republican did also. Just like you they made huge mistakes but they dont feel they should suffer, they fell like WE should pay for their mistakes while they continue to collect multi million dollar bonuses. We currently have an idea that we should spend 10 billion a month in Iraq, 800 billion for a bailout, and 300 million more for banks in McCain is president. But who pays for this???? We are over a trillion dollars in debt but all americans say taxes.....oh no........no taxes. Where do you think this money is going to come from to pay back enormous debt. I have seen Republicans on TV say that they voted against hurrican katrina relief but they would vote to stay in Iraq, but yet they have the nerve to stand by a banner that says country first. When checked by independent orginizations Obama's tax plans does ALOT more for the middle class while McCain does a lot more for the fortune 500. If thats you than more power to you but i bet its not. If companies can continue to use loop holes to get out of paying taxes than this debt that we are currently in while be shifted to your great grandchildren. Its amazing that people say we need small government but vote for people who make laws that say we can spy on citizens, suspend the constituition, torture people, and create a trillion dollar deficit in 8 years from a surplus.