[steingar]

Socialism is like a dirty word here in the US. Since there are lots of folks on the board from across the pond, how do you like your socialism? Are you taxed to starvation? Are you getting screwed by your national health care plan? Are your elder relatives left out in the cold? Let us in the US of A know all about it.

[BALDGONZO]

[BALDGONZO]

Well I guess that pretty much sums it up steingar

[TattooedGQ]

Got some great support on this one.....But then again I'm a troll....what do I know. HAHAHA

[FB1000inPA]

Besides being a dirty word it is also outdated for let's say 20 years. The socialist ideologies are done and no longer valid.

[dr256]

Originally Posted by steingar

Socialism is like a dirty word here in the US. Since there are lots of folks on the board from across the pond, how do you like your socialism? Are you taxed to starvation? Are you getting screwed by your national health care plan? Are your elder relatives left out in the cold? Let us in the US of A know all about it.

...er....but Europe doesn't have a "national" healthcare system. Europe is around 50 nations....this obviously is confusingly close to the number of States in America but still...

YouTube - Europe is a country and everyone speaks french here

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by dr256

...er....but Europe doesn't have a "national" healthcare system. Europe is around 50 nations....this obviously is confusingly close to the number of States in America but still...

YouTube - Europe is a country and everyone speaks french here

That's some funny sh1t. Can you imagine the feast the European media would of had on her if she'd said something like that on the other side of the pond?

[low-rider]

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by steingar

Socialism is like a dirty word here in the US... Let us in the US of A know all about it.

Give it six months and you'll find out for yourselves

[steingar]

I'm really disappointed this didn't work. Lots of folks on the board from European states, and I was genuinely interested in what they thought.

[Stick]

You could have worded it better. I think calling it socialism puts a bad taste in anyones mouth.

[LoopyLee]

Originally Posted by steingar

I'm really disappointed this didn't work. Lots of folks on the board from European states, and I was genuinely interested in what they thought.

We dont live in European 'states'.. they are individual countries..

[steingar]

True enough, and please forgive my wording. I was referring to States in the more classical sense, and not the state governments we have in the US. However, most if not all of the European countries are far more socialist than that US, and I am genuinely interested if that suits their residents. Those who I have met were quite happy with things, but they are from a very narrow socioeconomic and professional strata.

[FB1000inPA]

I always hated the socialist movement in my country.

Usually people are devided it into workers that follow the socialist ideas and vote for that party and the farmers and professionals who follow the christ democratic parties.

[dr256]

I think socialism is perceived as two quite different things in Europe and the States.

The US seems to associate socialism with the far left and eventually communism. Whereas in Europe we tend to view socialism as being egalitarian.

[low-rider]

maybe he thinks about communism...

[ryoung1]

No matter how it is posed, I think the object of this post that Steingar started (correct me if I am wrong) is to find out how all of you that live on the other side of the pond feel about how your hard earned money is used (or not used) by your governments. Do you get to keep most of what you earned to decide how to put it to it's best use, or does your government think they are in a better position to decide how to best use your hard-earned money?

We, on this side of the pond IMHO, are steadily slipping down that slippery slope into handing all of it over to our government so they can hand it out as they see fit (of course after they line their pockets). They (our government) are leaning more and more to thinking we are good enough to earn it, but not smart enough to know what to do with it after we have it. <off the soap box>

I too, would be interested to know what our friends on the other side think as well as those down under or anywhere else for that matter. Anyone?

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by ryoung1

No matter how it is posed, I think the object of this post that Steingar started (correct me if I am wrong) is to find out how all of you that live on the other side of the pond feel about how your hard earned money is used (or not used) by your governments. Do you get to keep most of what you earned to decide how to put it to it's best use, or does your government think they are in a better position to decide how to best use your hard-earned money?

We, on this side of the pond IMHO, are steadily slipping down that slippery slope into handing all of it over to our government so they can hand it out as they see fit (of course after they line their pockets). They (our government) are leaning more and more to thinking we are good enough to earn it, but not smart enough to know what to do with it after we have it. <off the soap box>

I too, would be interested to know what our friends on the other side think as well as those down under or anywhere else for that matter. Anyone?

Well, for one thing, we pay a lot more tax in the UK per person than the US does. As a single man (and not on a massive salary), my last income tax bill was over 40%. When living in Holland, it was 55% even though I was earning less.

And in one sense, you're not so far off the mark. The government in England at the moment (Labour party) is traditionally more socialist, albeit far more centre-left than ever before. Nevertheless, historically when a conservative government is in power, the country's coffers will be in surplus (in part because they privatise nationalised industry and balance the budget better) and when we have a Labour party in power the coffers are in the negative (because they run around buying up the previously sold nationalised businesses (at a higher price than we sold it) and throw money at all the minority interest groups.

Property prices (in a good market) are usually so high it is near enough impossible for young couples to get their foot on the first rung of the ladder.

[setanta]

Surf I cant figure out how New Labour can be even associated with socialism, its as close to the tories as you can get. Mind you havnt the last few days thrown a different light on things and the "dirty socialist leader" seems to being hailed as a hero in the very "conservative" world of international finance.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by setanta

Surf I cant figure out how New Labour can be even associated with socialism, its as close to the tories as you can get. Mind you havnt the last few days thrown a different light on things and the "dirty socialist leader" seems to being hailed as a hero in the very "conservative" world of international finance.

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I did say "more socialist". And I did say the current government was "far more centre left than ever before."

To clarify; the current UK government isn't 'quite' as socialist as I implied.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Surffrog

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I did say "more socialist". And I did say the current government was "far more centre left than ever before."

To clarify; the current UK government isn't 'quite' as socialist as I implied.

Steady now Surf dont be simplifying things, youLL start to feel unwell

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by setanta

Steady now Surf dont be simplifying things, youLL start to feel unwell

Damn, I was caught out

[zerogara]

Socialism is an economic system, a utopia, of ultimate economic equality regardless of occupation. Communism is a political system that was conceived as a means to achieve socialism.
What most people refer to as socialists are social democrats, which is capitalism with a strong welfare system. One can probably say that various socialist parties in Europe are like the democrats in the US, while others will argue that conservative parties in Europe are like the democrats.
Ths DSA (Democratic Socialists of America) are actually more radical than most euro-socialists, but you'd have a hard time ever finding them in your ballots.
Humanity is too primitive to really consider socialism as a possibility. It is like expecting monkeys to sit around and discuss the theory of relativity, INSIDE A F%$&(*&( CAGE!

[garnib]

england being run by an unelected big bro is watching you asbo, power hungry lower than ow, scum bag!!!!!!
and they are all screwing us over with tax this tax that.. oh and lets let all our easten friends in as well, to screw us a bit more!!!!!!

[zerogara]

Originally Posted by garnib

they are all screwing us over with tax this tax that.. oh and lets let all our easten friends in as well, to screw us a bit more!!!!!!

Classic example of a narrow minded fascist to feel tax is the only form of oppression, disregarding police brutality, workplace humiliation, and freedom restriction, as something aimed at others, not them, YET!
It takes martial law for them to wake up and see that their right to ride their taxed bike is taken away by gunmen outside their home. Walk outside and you'll get shot just like your eastern friend was when you were cheering for it!
There will not be much to tax after you get fired and all your possessions confiscated, will there?
Big bro is here to stay whether you elect him or not, the bigger bosses want to make sure they will be bosses after this economic crisis blows over, despite the cost, even if they have to execute half of the population to control the other half.
I don't give a damn where exactly you live in the western world, just watch as day passes by the local police getting more armed and more aggressive, and ask yourself why?
Maybe this crisis has not even started yet and some are taking measures as they can predict how deep it is going to be before any of us do.
You really think that the UK is a protected democracy and such things never happen there? I am sure you must be aware of striking workers in England being shot cold blooded in the late 1930s by the police and army. What makes you think that it will not happen again?
When your eastern brothers were getting raped and killed and every resource in their land was taken away by your ancestors, what percentage of that did end up in your pocket? Those who pocket it and their offspring and friends are still running things behind the scenes. It doesn't help blaming the victims and the children of victims except if you are actively providing cover for the rich who remain unnoticed while we all suffer the consequences of their game.
Our schools, our churches, our media, our managers at work, have been trying to keep us asleep and divided, so their bosses can pull the strings behind the stage.
It is up to you to stay asleep and harmless contributing to their plan or wake up and figure things out for yourself and those around you.
The only reason they gave you the right to ride the bike is so you can go back to work make more, sell more, tax more, and keep them afloat. Not out of respect for your right of freedom. As long as you are not making them richer you are worth more dead than alive to them.
Well, you are not making them richer right now because their 0 sum game has collapsed once again. The best thing to do is stay indoors, be quiet, eat less and speak less, so you can stay alive and be used again in the next cycle. Is that what you want? Fine, let the rest of us fight for something better for everyone else!

[Surffrog]

Well, it's true to say we have all felt the landslide begin. It's now just a question of when it will stop.