For Gun Owners

josk1176 · 10-13-2008, 6:12 PM

There is always a risk no matter where you live. I dont personally own a gun because my neighborhood is bad.

I also dont think I could live with myself if I was too scared to shoot someone while protecting my family and my house, and they in turn killed one of my kids. This Mama Bear will protect her kids by any means necessary.

steingar · 10-13-2008, 6:16 PM

That sort of shooting is phenomenally rare. Far more often guns are used for suicide.

josk1176 · 10-13-2008, 6:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steingar

That sort of shooting is phenomenally rare. Far more often guns are used for suicide.

You are right or shootings that involve children. Children playing with guns, which is why mine arent accessible, and why my kids were taught the way they were.

BigBassTurd · 10-13-2008, 6:32 PM

You break into my house you will be met with a chinese type 56 which is going to put a nice pretty little 7.62mm hole in front and blow your arse off in the back. Of course I could poke them with the bayonet first to let them know I mean buisness.

keifin · 10-13-2008, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steingar

My house was broken into. A couple things were stolen, and yes the insurance paid for it.

First and foremost. I support everyone's right to own guns, for reasons of my own. However, I think that voting for the President based only on gun rights for the unlikely reason that perhaps some day someone might want to break into your house utterly stupid. And if your neighborhood is so dangerous that you must have a gun to protect yourself from all those invaders, move.

The u.s. and the Nebraska constitution says i can, and should have firearms for one reason or another.

u.s.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Nebraska..
All persons are by nature free and independent, and have certain inherent and inalienable rights; among these are life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the right to keep and bear arms for security or defense of self, family, home, and others, and for lawful common defense, hunting, recreational use, and all other lawful purposes, and such rights shall not be denied or infringed by the state or any subdivision thereof. To secure these rights, and the protection of property, governments are instituted among people, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.

Why would i vote for someone who doesn't believe in my freedoms? It doesn't matter to me his religion, but if he was against freedom of religion i would not vote for him either.

Surffrog · 10-14-2008, 2:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoung1

Damn Surffrog, I somehow knew this was going to be a good day when I got up!!!

I'm sure there are plenty of others that we'll find down the road... Hell, here's another, we both like Honda's!

Quote:

Originally Posted by keifin

The word reasonable makes me nervous. If i have a gun and you brake into my house and i shoot you and you had no weapons is that reasonable? I don't understand reasonable in home defense. If you break into my house with intent to steal or do me harm then it should not matter if i shoot, stab, or beat you. And i don't see a difference between breaking in to steal or to do bodily harm. After the fact you can discuss intent all you want, but when the doors kicked in are you going to ask are you here for the t.v.?

Keifin, I am 100% in agreement with you. Iwould be prepared to bet large sums of money that if the law in the UK changed to allow complete self-defense of your home and family (including the use of a gun), the number of cases would drop considerably overnight. Shoot first, ask questions later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steingar

However, I think that voting for the President based only on gun rights for the unlikely reason that perhaps some day someone might want to break into your house utterly stupid. And if your neighborhood is so dangerous that you must have a gun to protect yourself from all those invaders, move.

Steingar, I agree. Lets face it, Clinton was anti-guns in a big way but was unable to change the law when he was in power. As a consequence, I think it's highly unlikely that Obama would be able to achieve this goal.

DragonRider · 10-14-2008, 11:34 AM

How can any American, true American vote for this piece of trash. I have an arsenal in my gun safe, with ammunition to go with it. I have a 12 gauge Shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot and 4 slugs to follow for anyone attempting to violate the tranquility and peace and comfort of my home. I have a wife and two children that sleep better at night knowing that Dad was a Marine and can put rounds down range in a hurry with pretty impressive accuracy. My neighbors feel safer knowing that if a car that isn't recognized by me or my dog does not go unquestioned by me and said Dog. This makes for a very safe environment to raise my children and the children of my neighbors. They would all do the same for me and my kids. I don't leave my guns out loaded with the safety off so my kids can puck them up and use them either, we have long discussions about gun safety, muzzle control, never pointing a gun(real or fake) at anything you don't intend to shoot. Never place your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot. My 9 year old daughter has a BB gun rifle, which she is very proficient with because I am a gun owner, she understands you don't shoot anything except targets with it. My 6 year old son doesn't touch even the BB gun because I told him he is not ready yet. My wife is also proficient with the twins, two 45's that are locked in the safe that she can put by her bedside when I am away on business...and your going to take this security away from us...BS! I vote McCain...who understands 2nd ammendment rights for what they are, protection and peace of mind. Nuff said.

SuperDucky9 · 10-14-2008, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRider

How can any American, true American vote for this piece of trash. I have an arsenal in my gun safe, with ammunition to go with it. I have a 12 gauge Shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot and 4 slugs to follow for anyone attempting to violate the tranquility and peace and comfort of my home. I have a wife and two children that sleep better at night knowing that Dad was a Marine and can put rounds down range in a hurry with pretty impressive accuracy. My neighbors feel safer knowing that if a car that isn't recognized by me or my dog does not go unquestioned by me and said Dog. This makes for a very safe environment to raise my children and the children of my neighbors. They would all do the same for me and my kids. I don't leave my guns out loaded with the safety off so my kids can puck them up and use them either, we have long discussions about gun safety, muzzle control, never pointing a gun(real or fake) at anything you don't intend to shoot. Never place your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot. My 9 year old daughter has a BB gun rifle, which she is very proficient with because I am a gun owner, she understands you don't shoot anything except targets with it. My 6 year old son doesn't touch even the BB gun because I told him he is not ready yet. My wife is also proficient with the twins, two 45's that are locked in the safe that she can put by her bedside when I am away on business...and your going to take this security away from us...BS! I vote McCain...who understands 2nd ammendment rights for what they are, protection and peace of mind. Nuff said.

Helll yeah brother. LoL.
If i could vote, it would be for McCain.
I have a 870 with 00buck waiting for such an event at my grandparents [where i am currently, and most frequently] and then my pitbull that i raised watches over my mom's house. I feel safer knowing that my grandpa can use the shotgun if he had to when i'm not there, and my mom has a protective pitbull [more so than her beagle] when im not there.

Neither houses have a security system, and that bothers me since my grandparents hearing is getting worse...

FB1000inPA · 10-14-2008, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRider

How can any American, true American vote for this piece of trash. I have an arsenal in my gun safe, with ammunition to go with it. I have a 12 gauge Shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot and 4 slugs to follow for anyone attempting to violate the tranquility and peace and comfort of my home. I have a wife and two children that sleep better at night knowing that Dad was a Marine and can put rounds down range in a hurry with pretty impressive accuracy. My neighbors feel safer knowing that if a car that isn't recognized by me or my dog does not go unquestioned by me and said Dog. This makes for a very safe environment to raise my children and the children of my neighbors. They would all do the same for me and my kids. I don't leave my guns out loaded with the safety off so my kids can puck them up and use them either, we have long discussions about gun safety, muzzle control, never pointing a gun(real or fake) at anything you don't intend to shoot. Never place your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot. My 9 year old daughter has a BB gun rifle, which she is very proficient with because I am a gun owner, she understands you don't shoot anything except targets with it. My 6 year old son doesn't touch even the BB gun because I told him he is not ready yet. My wife is also proficient with the twins, two 45's that are locked in the safe that she can put by her bedside when I am away on business...and your going to take this security away from us...BS! I vote McCain...who understands 2nd ammendment rights for what they are, protection and peace of mind. Nuff said.

SemperFi and I agree with everything you say.
PA backcountry hicks love their weapons, God and freedom.

Nobama'08.

TattooedGQ · 10-14-2008, 3:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRider

How can any American, true American vote for this piece of trash. I have an arsenal in my gun safe, with ammunition to go with it. I have a 12 gauge Shotgun loaded with 00 buckshot and 4 slugs to follow for anyone attempting to violate the tranquility and peace and comfort of my home. I have a wife and two children that sleep better at night knowing that Dad was a Marine and can put rounds down range in a hurry with pretty impressive accuracy. My neighbors feel safer knowing that if a car that isn't recognized by me or my dog does not go unquestioned by me and said Dog. This makes for a very safe environment to raise my children and the children of my neighbors. They would all do the same for me and my kids. I don't leave my guns out loaded with the safety off so my kids can puck them up and use them either, we have long discussions about gun safety, muzzle control, never pointing a gun(real or fake) at anything you don't intend to shoot. Never place your finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot. My 9 year old daughter has a BB gun rifle, which she is very proficient with because I am a gun owner, she understands you don't shoot anything except targets with it. My 6 year old son doesn't touch even the BB gun because I told him he is not ready yet. My wife is also proficient with the twins, two 45's that are locked in the safe that she can put by her bedside when I am away on business...and your going to take this security away from us...BS! I vote McCain...who understands 2nd ammendment rights for what they are, protection and peace of mind. Nuff said.

GREAT post buddy!!!

steingar · 10-14-2008, 4:26 PM

Government of the stupid by the stupid for the stupid. The SCOTUS ruled on the second amendment and affirmed the right of citizens to bear arms. Nothing short of another constitutional amendment is likely to change that. It really doesn't matter what the President thinks. He or she can do little about it.

FB1000inPA · 10-14-2008, 5:08 PM

But the president can swing the SCOTUS in his favour. BTW - the latest ruling left the doors wide open for an amendment.

cbr900091177 · 10-14-2008, 5:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steingar

Government of the stupid by the stupid for the stupid.

steingar · 10-14-2008, 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

But the president can swing the SCOTUS in his favour. BTW - the latest ruling left the doors wide open for an amendment.

US courts go by precedent. Very, very difficult to overturn. If there was a ruling to overturn it would be Roe v. Wade. 8 years of Republican lock on the Executive and it still hasn't happened.

Amendments are dicey, I doubt they could get the votes. Lots and lots of very emotional gun owners out there. Try learning how your government works.

keifin · 10-14-2008, 7:12 PM

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

In response to questions from the committee, Verizon said that since 2005 it
has provided customer information to federal authorities in hundreds of
emergency cases without court orders. The company said the information it has provided includes call records, IP addresses and credit card and bank account
numbers.

If you think because it's written you can quit fighting for it then you don't understand the oppressive government we have today. I watch every day as my government rallies the masses in the name of God and country to fight illegal wars as they strip away my freedom little by little in the name of security and it seems as though it is only getting worse. I would think a person that lived in a country that could ban all firearms would understand oppression.

steingar · 10-15-2008, 10:30 AM

Fortunately the ill-named Patriot Act is not a Constitutional amendment, and can be done away with.

Surffrog · 10-16-2008, 7:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoung1

Hell, here's another, we both like Honda's!

Amen, Brother Honda lover

FB1000inPA · 10-16-2008, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steingar

US courts go by precedent. Very, very difficult to overturn. If there was a ruling to overturn it would be Roe v. Wade. 8 years of Republican lock on the Executive and it still hasn't happened.

Amendments are dicey, I doubt they could get the votes. Lots and lots of very emotional gun owners out there. Try learning how your government works.

And you do?

steingar · 10-16-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

And you do?

Obviously I know enough to realize that the President cannot simply void Supreme Court decisions.

bettingpython · 10-16-2008, 10:38 AM

The president can Issue executive orders ala Bill Clinton specifically banning the importation of H&K MP5's, 91's 93's etc specifically by name.

Firearms related site's are blocked here at work so I don't want to go banging up against the content filter searching. I usually prefer to cite my sources when I make a statement.

Semper Fi DragonRider.

And every freedom which has been diminished over the last 50 years has been done under the guise of a reasonable compromise. Some may not see the issue with registry of firearms as unreasonable, but I do, it's just one more intrusion into your private affairs by big brother.

There are 2 loaded .45's in our bedroom one on my side of the bed and one on my wifes side. Under the bed there is a fully loaded M4 carbine with 2 additonal loaded 30rd mags. Entry into my house would be a mistake.

We live in a relatively quiet older neighborhood but all it takes is one scumbag to buy the house next door, then you get undesireable traffic and stupid crap happening. I hate having a now derelict house sitting next to mine in foreclsure but it's better than the punks that lived there.

FB1000inPA · 10-16-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steingar

Obviously I know enough to realize that the President cannot simply void Supreme Court decisions.

I never said that but rather referred to presidents being able to appoint SC justices under certain circumstances. These appointments can change the make-up of the SC and shift results into the presidents favour.

DragonRider · 10-16-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bettingpython

The president can Issue executive orders ala Bill Clinton specifically banning the importation of H&K MP5's, 91's 93's etc specifically by name.

Firearms related site's are blocked here at work so I don't want to go banging up against the content filter searching. I usually prefer to cite my sources when I make a statement.

Semper Fi DragonRider.

And every freedom which has been diminished over the last 50 years has been done under the guise of a reasonable compromise. Some may not see the issue with registry of firearms as unreasonable, but I do, it's just one more intrusion into your private affairs by big brother.

There are 2 loaded .45's in our bedroom one on my side of the bed and one on my wifes side. Under the bed there is a fully loaded M4 carbine with 2 additonal loaded 30rd mags. Entry into my house would be a mistake.

We live in a relatively quiet older neighborhood but all it takes is one scumbag to buy the house next door, then you get undesireable traffic and stupid crap happening. I hate having a now derelict house sitting next to mine in foreclsure but it's better than the punks that lived there.

All it takes is one scumbag...I love it. I also have a SKS with a 10 round magazine in my gun safe, loaded with a couple extra stripper clips just in case they get out of range of the shotgun!! Actually just took that out back to make sure it was still sighted in correctly after cleaning it the other day, nice 10 group from 50 yards...about a 3 to 3.5 inch circle...The deer have no chance this year.

steingar · 10-16-2008, 2:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FB1000inPA

I never said that but rather referred to presidents being able to appoint SC justices under certain circumstances. These appointments can change the make-up of the SC and shift results into the presidents favour.

We've had 8 years of uninterrupted Conservative leadership of the Executive branch, and Roe v. Wade, the biggest target of the Conservative movement, still stands. Please explain if you think the President has such influence over an already decided issue.

dr256 · 10-16-2008, 2:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bettingpython

Some may not see the issue with registry of firearms as unreasonable, but I do, it's just one more intrusion into your private affairs by big brother.

There are 2 loaded .45's in our bedroom one on my side of the bed and one on my wifes side. Under the bed there is a fully loaded M4 carbine with 2 additonal loaded 30rd mags.

Sorry for my English, I don't get the gun stuff attitude but...

...I really don't get it.
You say that registering your firearms is an intrusion into your private affairs but you have effectively just done so??? There they are, your firearms, all listed and right down to where you keep the things.

As I understand it Obama only wants you to register your gun yes?
He's not going to take it away, just ask you you to register it.
Surely if your gun is registered, and by some misfortune have to use it, then you are in the clear because you are legit and all above board.
Where'as the criminals who won't have nice clean registered guns now have one more thing to think about and one more chance of getting caught and 'banged up in nick' (as we say in London)

Seems entirely sensible to me.
You get to keep the guns, the cops get to know who should and shouldn't have one!

In the UK (and I don't expect its any different is the U.S) I have to register to vote, register my car and of course my bike, my house is on the land register, my job is registered with the tax office, etc etc, so why not something as hideously dangerous as a gun?

FB1000inPA · 10-16-2008, 2:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steingar

We've had 8 years of uninterrupted Conservative leadership of the Executive branch, and Roe v. Wade, the biggest target of the Conservative movement, still stands. Please explain if you think the President has such influence over an already decided issue.

Sadly Roe vs. Wade still stands. You don't have to be conservative to disagree with this decission. The real problem is that people say they are christians and philosophical yet agree with it.

I don't need to explain. I did post how the president can swing the SC in his favour already. It always happened when conservatives were in power.

FB1000inPA · 10-16-2008, 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr256

Sorry for my English, I don't get the gun stuff attitude but...

...I really don't get it.
You say that registering your firearms is an intrusion into your private affairs but you have effectively just done so??? There they are, your firearms, all listed and right down to where you keep the things.

As I understand it Obama only wants you to register your gun yes?
He's not going to take it away, just ask you you to register it.
Surely if your gun is registered, and by some misfortune have to use it, then you are in the clear because you are legit and all above board.
Where'as the criminals who won't have nice clean registered guns now have one more thing to think about and one more chance of getting caught and 'banged up in nick' (as we say in London)

Seems entirely sensible to me.
You get to keep the guns, the cops get to know who should and shouldn't have one!

In the UK (and I don't expect its any different is the U.S) I have to register to vote, register my car and of course my bike, my house is on the land register, my job is registered with the tax office, etc etc, so why not something as hideously dangerous as a gun?

No, he wants to take them away from us.

dr256 · 10-16-2008, 3:05 PM

I stand corrected....

But Don't worry, if he becomes President someone will shoot him just like every other black leader anyway....

(sorry everyone, very poor taste I know)

Sadly I think its too late to take your guns away, there are just too many of them in the wrong hands. So you may as well let the decent folk have them as well. I just hope we in the UK never follow down the road.

Best of luck to you and my sincere wishes to you all that you'll never have to use them.

FB1000inPA · 10-16-2008, 3:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr256

I stand corrected....

But Don't worry, if he becomes President someone will shoot him just like every other black leader anyway....

(sorry everyone, very poor taste I know)

Sadly I think its too late to take your guns away, there are just too many of them in the wrong hands. So you may as well let the decent folk have them as well. I just hope we in the UK never follow down the road.

Best of luck to you and my sincere wishes to you all that you'll never have to use them.

And that's the main argument. The honest people do everything the right way when they purchase a firearm. It's the criminals who don't care about the law. So maybe stricter law enforcement would be more successful.

bettingpython · 10-16-2008, 3:32 PM

Some background information for you dr256

There is no federal database of firearms owned by individuals, though some states have laws requiring them, just not mine. This insures that the federal government can not come round and violate your second ammendment rights under our constitution.

And all I let you know about is whats immediately accesible. You have to be free of felony convictions and misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence and not be a fugitive from justice or have a history of mental illness or treatment for drug abuse.

There is a law requiring a criminal background check before you may purchase from a licensed dealer but in no case may the FBI keep any record of the transaction, the transfer is purged within 24hrs of a proceed with sale determination. 97% of the time a NICS check is exactly what it is intended to be which is instant. Unfortunately for me I get a delayed transfer everytime, theres apparently some really bad people with my name and close to my age even providing my SSN does not speed the process up.

NFA transferrable machine guns are prohibitively expensive since only pr86 weapons may be owned by civillians, the tax is only $200 per item but even a cheap full auto uzi runs $7000 dollars and it just goes up from there.

You can own short barreled rifles shotguns silencers etc if you are willing to pay the $200 per item tax and have a clear criminal history along with submitting and having your prints on file with the BATF, and your state allows ownership of such items.

Prior to 1968 any one could pick up a mail order catalog and just buy a gun now you have to buy from a dealer or a private party who resides in your state and you can't ship stuff to anyone but a dealer.

Of course this was considered a reasonable compromise. Now yoou can not import "assualt wepons" nor may you assemble one from imported parts but you can buy a civillian version and put domestic made parts on it to turn it into one. The importation of replacement or repair parts for previously imported firearms has also been banned now so for people with pre ban H&K's or UZI's if you need to repair your gun if their is no US manufacturer of the part your out of luck.

Again a reasonable compromise, after all hey you don't need that gun so we will make it impossible for you to keep it working, even though your ownership of it is protected under the constitution.

FB1000inPA · 10-16-2008, 4:20 PM

Great post.

In addition I would like to add that many folks are getting around some of these rules.
One is the creation of a trust and you register and place the firearms into this trust. You still pay the $200 etc but you don't need a background check and no LEO signature. Some LEOs are playing God and they don't give out their signature for any FA weapons or silencers.