[stegen]

Originally Posted by Tombstone

There is a God and he is a man. Why else do you think women look so good naked?

He also has a sense of humor.....Lets take Stegen for example.

oh! someones trying to be a ****ing comedian.

[Bacchus]

Originally Posted by DRider

I’d like to chime in with GFJ with a no also. I believe he is an antiquated invention of mankind made up in the past to explain events which people didn’t understand such as the change in season, the setting of the sun, why people get sick, formation of the clouds, etc. and many people still carry on the notion to this day because:

1) Risk analysis: it’s better to believe and get into heaven than not to believe and going to hell for eternity simply because they picked the wrong horse
2) They’re afraid to face the day alone and it’s comforting to think that someone who’s all knowing (i.e. dad without the drinking problem) is there to help them through it.


On the other hand, if your belief in God makes you a better person, if your belief in God causes you to lend others a helping hand, if your belief in God contributes to the overall well being of humanity then for all intents and purposes God DOES exist and he’s acting thru you. Not God the person but God the concept; the ideals for a better world and for the improvement of yourself and those around you. In that case God is alive and active in everything you do and that’s a good thing.

I like this one too. I guess you all know where I stand by now . It's not that I don't believe in a "god", just that I think my god is a little different than the traditional one...

[Mo Noyz]

Outstanding posts DRider. You've obviously done your homework. Thanks for the lessons.

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

I like this one too. I guess you all know where I stand by now . It's not that I don't believe in a "god", just that I think my god is a little different than the traditional one...

[Bacchus]

Mo Noyz,

[nomad]

DRider, you forgot to chip in that before laws could be enforced by man-power people used the church (and by extension religion?) to enforce the basic beliefs in any given culture. It kept societies from being lawless... afterall, you could cheat on the laws of the land but you can't cheat the laws under an "all powerful" who is watching.

To this day our church tries to influence our "laws"; not the written law but our moral and ethical behaviours.

The practice of using the church as a law/belief enforcement mechanism can be seen clearly in the case of King Henry. He didn't like the laws of the current church so he created his own. Same concept, poor (blatant) implementation. Also, look at native religions - their gods reflected their belief in keeping the lands. Norse godes reflected societies belief that warriors were worthy.... just some food for though.

[DRider]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

Outstanding posts DRider. You've obviously done your homework. Thanks for the lessons.

Mahalo, Although i was hoping to see answers from others why they believe besides "Shhh, It's a secret".

I volunteer at the humane society, there are lots of people who volunteer there for court mandated reasons. One gentleman i work with is a recovering alcoholic/drug addict. He tried to convert me from Buddhism to Christianity (he did it himself) when i asked him why he believes/why is God so great he told me.

"With him i have the strength to quit" Tell you what, damn good answer

Too bad many here don't want to share.

[DRider]

Originally Posted by nomad

DRider, you forgot to chip in that before laws could be enforced by man-power people used the church (and by extension religion?) to enforce the basic beliefs in any given culture. It kept societies from being lawless... afterall, you could cheat on the laws of the land but you can't cheat the laws under an "all powerful" who is watching.

To this day our church tries to influence our "laws"; not the written law but our moral and ethical behaviours.

The practice of using the church as a law/belief enforcement mechanism can be seen clearly in the case of King Henry. He didn't like the laws of the current church so he created his own. Same concept, poor (blatant) implementation. Also, look at native religions - their gods reflected their belief in keeping the lands. Norse godes reflected societies belief that warriors were worthy.... just some food for though.

Excellent point. I always thought the hell aspect of Christianity was invented to keep those of questionable morals in line for the good of society. Heaven was there to give good people hope and reward them for being selfless and Hell exists to scare bad people shitless. I just started to get the feeling that I'm being long-winded. I'd hate for people to start calling me Taz Jr.

But on that note I feel that if you try to better the world under your own accord then God is not nessisary since the end result of religion is already being accomplished.

BTW I like the King Henry jab. This is how I think most sects get their start. What if David Koresh lived 800 years ago? Honestly, I think there would another valid branch of Christianity in the world today.

[nomad]

Originally Posted by DRider

Too bad many here don't want to share.

Sharing could start a Fireblades Jihad.

[Mo Noyz]

"With him i have the strength to quit" Tell you what, damn good answer

I agree. Thats one of the problems that I tend to have with the anti-Christian crowd.

If it works for you, hey, who the hell am I to question it's power?

God IS in the details, eh?

[MedTechRR]

Ok, I've had a few to drink tonight, what better time to spill my guts on religous matters. Some of this crap hasn't been discussed with anyone but my shrink. Please forgive the spelling errors.

I was brought up in a very strict roman catholic environment (rulers across the knuckles and all) and know every last detail of the bible. However, no amount of school could force me to believe all of it. I am just too questioning to believe it all.

I guess I'm a hopefull agnostic. Really, there are many, many different religions in the world. How can one possibly be right and other be wrong?? When I was growing up the roman catholic population was a very strong, influential section of the community. Now look at them, they are a bunch of child molesting priests who are struggling to keep their church open.

Now, this is going a little beyond normal info from me but what the hell! No ****ing joking here! I was actually an altar boy and my priest was one of the ones guilty of sexual assault. I personally was not attacked but 2 of my best friends were. I swear right here and now if anyone thinks this if funny or makes a joke I will find you and punch you.

This was the beginning of my doubtfulness. How can a so called servant of God do such unholy acts?? It's not just a ****ing story on the news, it's my life. How can one not start to doubt.

I had many, many questions growing up and really never had any answers! My next wonderful sign came in the form of my cousin dying! (sarcasm!)

Two years ago, my cousin Dean, who was 28 at the time, died. He was a damn catholic school teacher for crying out loud. He devouted his life to serving God and His people. He was perfectly healthy. He stepped out of the shower one morning. The tile floor was a bit slippery and he slid. He hit his head on the side of the sink so perfectly it instantly killed him. Now tell me that God had some wonderful plan and it was worth it. He was a damn 3rd grade catholic school teacher. His class was (and still is for that matter) devistated. Our family just can't make sense of it.

I really hope there is more to life than what we see but until I get there I will always question and hope for the best. Sorry to all of you who have had your miracles, I haven't!!

[Mo Noyz]

What if David Koresh lived 800 years ago?

And had second hand accounts of his life written?

Right-o, my friend. Couldn't agree more.

And that is not meant to slight Christians in any way at all. But certainly the parallels would be interesting.

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by nomad

Sharing could start a Fireblades Jihad.

Oh my!!!

[Mo Noyz]

I guess I'm a hopefull agnostic.

I think that sums things up for me as well. Maybe it IS taking the easy way out, but I just can't resolve any other feelings.

[nomad]

I'm a paranoid, dyslexic, agnostic... I fear there really is no dog.

[G-Force Junkie]

Originally Posted by nomad

I'm a paranoid, dyslexic, agnostic... I fear there really is no dog.

[MedTechRR]

you guys don't even know!

I have believed since I was born but seeing the things I've seen, being an EMT and witnessing the destruction and mayhem of everyday life, and being personally let down time after time, it gets very very very hard to believe. I pray every night that I would just wake up and have complete faith. I'm getting pretty exhausted lately but don't want to give up!

[Mo Noyz]

I'm getting pretty exhausted lately but don't want to give up!

NEVER give up, brother.

[NinerPilot]

Me personally, Yes I have full faith that there is a God, and in my book, he is the father of Jesus Christ. I have been around the Baptist denomination from the start but have been to many different churches both Catholic and Protestant, and even to a Buddist Temple once, not for a service, but to expand my horizons. Over the years I started going to church less and less, but still kept the values close. I made a habit of going to Midnight Mass every Christmas Eve with a friend of mine, mainly because I couldnt think of a better way to spend what is known as one of the two holiest times in the bible. By this same trade, I go to church with my whole family on Easter Sunday as well. There are other times that I go through out the year, but these two, I try my hardest to make.

In the past 2 months I have found a renewed faith and it came at possibly the worst time in my life. As most of you know, On 3-28-04 I lost a dear friend of mine in a car accident. This was probably one of the most mentally and emotionally painful things I have been through. During this time, I prayed many times a day asking God to be with the family, friends, and myself during the rough times ahead. To me, it brought a sense of calm over me and helped me deal with the tragedy. Then a couple of weeks ago when I went to church on Easter, (The first time in over a year since I missed Christmas Mass this year) I felt an overwhelming force that I cannot explain that comforted me during the service. Like I said, I cannot and will not try to explain it. In the profession that I have chosen (Law Enforcement) Spirituallity plays a large part for me. For me, having the belief that there is a higher power that is watching over me, comforts me. Every day I work as I strap my bulletproof vest on, I ask god to watch over me and my brothers and sisters in blue, and so far it has worked for me as I have yet to get a scratch while wearing my uniform, (except for crashing the 50 at the roadblock, but thats know exactly what I ask for protection for.

One of the best statements that I have heard regarding religion was this: If you live your life in a way close to that of a Christian, and when you die it turns out to be a hoax, what have you lost in life by living in a good way.

Chris

[nomad]

Originally Posted by NinerPilot

One of the best statements that I have heard regarding religion was this: If you live your life in a way close to that of a Christian, and when you die it turns out to be a hoax, what have you lost in life by living in a good way.

Chris

Excellent quote. Why only Christian? Why not, "If you live your life in a way close to that of Budha..." Or, "... in a way close to that of Bacchus..." Or, "... in a way that you deem ethical..." The sentiment behind the quote remains intact, it's just a matter of what belief system you use to measure a "good" way of living.

[figment]

Originally Posted by Rios929

Oh, I agree that the universe may have a finite age, but claiming to have proven it beyond a resonable doubt is ridiculous. Maybe that was just a bad example, but it seems that they take theories that seem to conflict with the bible and just dismiss them very easily. They site such an abstract study to contest evolution- that robot study. Yet they fail to mention the vast amount of studies that have simulated evolution.

Could you lease cite the claim for me about the universe age? I know Hugh Ross has determined it to be between 11 and 17 billion years based on the speed of light - C. This is not interpreted by me to be a stated fact, just an estimation.

Evolution is a loaded word. If you mean that evolution as OBSERVED is in contradiction, I'd disagree. We see small changes in life over time all around us. If you mean however that life formed from chaos by accident, then we'd also disagree. The amount of time it would take for life to happen by chance is statistically unattainable based on the age of the universe and the variables needed for it to happen. It would be like assembling a watch from all of its pieces while they were being shaken in an unimaginably large box of sand, and THEN have the box stay still long enough for the pieces to be fastened and then tightened by more shaking.

The Bible tells Christians to always be prepared to give a reason for the hope that we have. I try to do that as much as I can. I also really enjoy reasoning in this way because I find it sharpens my faith. I find the Bible to be an awesome work, full of wonder. Some would see this as blindness. I've been in their shoes...

Apologetics is not always however, a productive work when it comes to winning people over. What wins people over to Christianity is number one, God, and number two, His work in the lives of believers, (their witness) and LOVE.

[NinerPilot]

Originally Posted by nomad

Excellent quote. Why only Christian? Why not, "If you live your life in a way close to that of Budha..." Or, "... in a way close to that of Bacchus..." Or, "... in a way that you deem ethical..." The sentiment behind the quote remains intact, it's just a matter of what belief system you use to measure a "good" way of living.

Because the guy that said that was my preachers son and we were at church. Like I said, Its what he said, not an idea.
Chris

[ER]

I had to leave work last night after replying to this thread, but I thought about it all night. If I had a computer I would have been here responding.

Thoroughly study the theory of Evolution and the Big Bang. There are a lot of assumptions made and holes left unfilled. Darwin himself admitted this when he proposed his works. Did we really come from an initial explosion of gases in matter in an otherwise void universe? From the Big Bang, random, floating proteins happened upon a primative Earth (that happened to be caught in the perfect orbit around a star, which formed from condensing gases). With the exact conditions needed to sustain life on Earth, that protein eventually evolved into a single-celled organism, which in turn grew into multiple cells, then to an amoeba, then to aquatic life...grew legs and lungs, breathed air, grew smarter and smarter, walked upright, and eventually developed a consicious, self-awareness, supreme intelligence, and a moral character? Look at the complexities of the human body? I just can't grasp how we can hear a scientist tell us this (without complete, end-to-end proof) and just accept it, but scoff at the idea that perhaps we were created for a purpose instead.

Why do I believe in God (aside from what I wrote above)? Because I tried living life MY way instead of His way, and I know how empty that was. There was no hope, no purpose, no point in doing what I did. Why live a life in a crappy world with bad things happening all around you? What's the end result? Despite all the money I could make, all the girls I could sleep with, and all the stuff I could buy, there was still a hole. It took a low-point in my life for me to finally submit to Him and say, "Ok...I give up. I can't do it my way."

As a Christian, once you invite Christ in your life, the Holy Spirit dwells within you. You can't take a picture of it to show a non-believer that He's there, but you know He is. Your outlook on life changes as you grow in Christ. He guides you through the good times and the bad, and He becomes as involved in your life as you let Him. He leads you through His Word (the Bible) as He reveals more of Himself to you.

It's as real a relationship as a marriage, but you can't force someone else to see it - they have to make that decision themselves. And, as someone else already said, it's not a Christian's job to force you to make that decision, but merely to be a witness in his/her testimony.

[ND4SPD]

Well said ER.

To those that care, the link below is for a video of a service that I attend and volunteer at Sunday afternoons/evenings. It's ~210mb, 1 1/2hrs long. If you have the time, watch it. Maybe it'll give you a better understanding

(Right click, Save As...)
http://www.sevenoseven.com/707Easter.WMV