Proof of the Creator..

Scout · 02-22-2006, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proto

Yes indeed. Religions, like all living things, adapt and eveolve to suit their habitats. I was reading yesterday about Galileo who was on the point of being put to death because he postulated that the Earth revolved around the Sun. Heresy said the Vatican.

Can't think the Pope would want to pick that one up again.

Yep. Organized Religion has been wrong, time and time again, and has changed, time and time again.

But, and this isn't a convenient out, I've said this elsewhere, Christianity hasn't changed since the New Testament.

Scout · 02-22-2006, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I would agree kinda, although I think most people don't realize that by saying there is no God they're placing faith in that.

No they don't realize. But they are:

What's the alternative? There is a God and they didn't believe.

Scout · 02-22-2006, 10:44 PM

For those just tuning in again today, start at #116. That's where my "answer post tirade starts."

Custom900 · 02-22-2006, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chkaotic

It makes no difference in my life whether we evolved or not, or if we were intelligently created or not, so why debate it.

In that case - this debate obviously isn't for you. If you don't want to participate, don't. If you would like to know the opinions and beliefs of others you are welcome to read and ask questions. We debate things, not necessarily to convince others, but to learn from others. Debates are healthy when properly done.

phobiaphobe · 02-23-2006, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scout

...
And then prove that Darwins fat beaked berry eating finch decided to eat insects, so his beak shrunk over generations. How about, since the beak shrunk, the Berry eating finch could now stick it in bug holes?

...

It's not like that at all. In an isolated environment where grubs are the plentiful food source, finches that have longer narrower beaks are more successful, therefore more likely to survice, and therefore more able to reproduce and pass their traits onto their offspring.

The fat-beaked finch dies.

Custom900 · 02-23-2006, 12:56 AM

Don't all of the versions of the finch you posted exist today? With that being the case, does that really point towards evolution? Hmmmmmmmmm. That comment can go both ways, but hey, I just thought I would call it to your attention.

phobiaphobe · 02-23-2006, 1:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Custom900

Don't all of the versions of the finch you posted exist today? With that being the case, does that really point towards evolution? ..

Yes they do exist, evolved to suit their different environments and food sources. Thanks.

Scout · 02-23-2006, 1:01 AM

I still can't get over a world full of Jessica's. Mmmmm, Jessica. Door Number 2

Custom900 · 02-23-2006, 1:06 AM

In that case, they are nothing more than different breeds of the same animal. Same with cats, dogs, cows, etc. No evo there, just coincidence. That would be making it out to be something you would like to it be in order to get the outcome you desire.

Not you specifically - but that's what Science has done in many cases, and has changed it's story to adapt \ evolve to the new evidence that disprooves or challenges the first Theory.

I'm all for Science. I love the study and the experiments that are offered, but with life I will always go with God. In my view this is the direction that all evidence points.

phobiaphobe · 02-23-2006, 1:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Custom900

... That would be making it out to be something you would like to it be in order to get the outcome you desire.

... changed it's story to adapt \ evolve to the new evidence that disprooves or challenges the first Theory....

You just described religion.

luvtolean · 02-23-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

You just described religion.

That's because evolution, used as the explanation for the existence of man, is playing in the same field as religion. Both take "faith".

luvtolean · 02-23-2006, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scout

Or until we make a giant Darwinian quantum leap and turn into Unicorns.

Dude, if I turn into a Unicorn, I hope God swats me from the sky.

chkaotic · 02-23-2006, 4:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Custom900

In that case - this debate obviously isn't for you. If you don't want to participate, don't. If you would like to know the opinions and beliefs of others you are welcome to read and ask questions. We debate things, not necessarily to convince others, but to learn from others. Debates are healthy when properly done.

Which is why i post.. when I said i dont debate, i mean i dont debate with myself.. but i thoroughly enjoy debates with others. it gives me a chance to let out my own views, and continue on my quest to better understand everyone elses..

..or something

jaim · 02-24-2006, 4:50 AM

What is actually being debated here? The existance of a god or evolution or something else. If evolution then the creationists have lost that debate a long time ago. A few readily available examples were put forth here and ignored.

Rationality can not debate facts with irrationality. Faith is irrational behavior so must be treated with the same regard one would treat a small child throwing a tantrum. The answer "because" is as valid as the full explanation.

If it is the existance of a god. Again I will ask where is the proof? Because those who believe point to the Universe as proof is not proof. Just because we do not have a full understanding as to how the how the universe was formed does not mean it was formed by some omnipotent being.

Custom900 · 02-24-2006, 11:32 AM

The complexity of the all the exists is enough to point to God. The individual cells in life are too complex for chance to have allowed them to pop into existence by accident. As you delve deeper and deeper into the cell you find protien's designed by DNA that could not have happened by chance. The likelyhood of this happening is impossible - and this is according to Science itself. By the way - the way in which DNA is programmed - which is the programmer itself, which in isn't totally understood - but it does not leap or change forms by chance. When alterations are made pieces don't fit unless forced. Oh - That would be Intelligent Design.

Have you ever considered your conscience, thinking, reasoning ability? Where does this come from? Is it by chance that you have the ability to "Intelligently" reason, debate, think, remember, and generally have consciousness above and beyond what every other being on earth has. The mind has been proven a mystery by Science - not the brain, but the Consciousness of of the mind, and it only points again to Intelligent Design.

As far as the Theory of Evolution goes, many Scientists believe that it will be an outdated idea within the next 20 to 30 years and some other Theory will take it's place. These same Scientists claim that the Technology we use today points towards Intelligent Design over and over again - not chance or accident.

By the way, if faith is the same as a child's tantrum then you throw tantrum's each and every day in the things you experience in life. You place faith in your bank to process your account corrctly. I won't waste my time going through the endless amount of things faith is placed in. Faith is trust.
Your comments are the same as insults Jaim. You get nowhere with insults.

Jaim, you admitted that you had no idea what was being discussed, so........

phobiaphobe · 02-24-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Custom900

...
As far as the Theory of Evolution goes, many Scientists believe that it will be an outdated idea within the next 20 to 30 years and some other Theory will take it's place. These same Scientists claim that the Technology we use today points towards Intelligent Design over and over again - not chance or accident.
....

Really?

Will pastors then be licensed to practice medicine?

Custom900 · 02-24-2006, 1:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Really?

Will pastors then be licensed to practice medicine?

HA. HA. HA. I like that. I'm always eager to open a post from you Phobe. You have a very creative, intelligent mind. At the same time you have an amazing attitude and sense of humor.

Sadly - there aren't enough Pastors out there with the capability to stay with this debate. There are some, but they are in the minority. I'm sure you would agree with me on that.
At the same time - there are very few Docs that would be able to play this game either. Most people would give up out of frustration or get angry to a point of insults because they didn't get their way with their Point of View.

Custom900 · 02-24-2006, 1:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaim

Rationality can not debate facts with irrationality. Faith is irrational behavior so must be treated with the same regard one would treat a small child throwing a tantrum. The answer "because" is as valid as the full explanation.

"Faith does not imply a closed mind, but an open mind. Quite the opposite of blindness, faith appreciates the vast spiritual realities that materialists overlook by getting trapped in the purely physical." - Sir John Templeton
This quote was taken from his work "The Humble Approach: Scientists Discover God" written in 1998

phobiaphobe · 02-24-2006, 1:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUnneccessaryCapitalizer

...
At the same time - there are very few Docs that would be able to play this game either. Most people would give up out of frustration or get angry to a point of insults because they didn't get their way with their Point of View.

Have to disagree with you there. Having a girlfriend in pre-med I know for a fact that it takes someone with incredible persistence and determination to become a doctor. I'll bet that most docs wouldn't participate in this type of discussion because they're intelligent enough to know that it's futile.

Custom900 · 02-24-2006, 1:48 PM

The Unneccessary Capitalizer
Now that is creative. What will those in the French \ Canadian world come up with next?

And I know many, many Docs. I'm married to a Med Student that decided to turn her passion towards Law. Trust me - they're not all that smart. Persistent - yes, Smart - not always.

By the way - I also know several Christian Docs that would stand by my side on this as well as a few that would stand on your side.

Is the debate futile? Yes it is, in that there will always be different views.
But it's still a lot of fun - well, for me anyway.

phobiaphobe · 02-24-2006, 1:53 PM

It is a Debate that can Never End. Still fun Though.

Kuss929 · 02-24-2006, 2:10 PM

This is the song that never ends.
It goes on and on my friends.
Someone started singing it not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue singing it forever just because,
This is the song that never ends.
It goes on and on my friends.
Someone started singing it not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue singing it forever just because,
This is the song that never ends.
It goes on and on my friends.
Someone started singing it not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue singing it forever just because,

phobiaphobe · 02-24-2006, 2:14 PM

I hate you.