[Kuss929]

I am not talking creation. I am talking about life on this planet and maintaining it. The fragility of life shows me that it is not intelligent design.
Gravity is a law that has never changed.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by jaim

What is actually being debated here? The existance of a god or evolution or something else. If evolution then the creationists have lost that debate a long time ago. A few readily available examples were put forth here and ignored.

Rationality can not debate facts with irrationality. Faith is irrational behavior so must be treated with the same regard one would treat a small child throwing a tantrum. The answer "because" is as valid as the full explanation.

If it is the existance of a god. Again I will ask where is the proof? Because those who believe point to the Universe as proof is not proof. Just because we do not have a full understanding as to how the how the universe was formed does not mean it was formed by some omnipotent being.

Post #118

Mark Ridley, another evolutionist from Oxford University said in The New Scientist magazine in June 1981 p 831, "a lot of people just do not know what evidence the theory of evolution stands upon. They think that the main evidence is the gradual descent of one species from another in the fossil record. ...In any case, no real evolutionist, whether gradualist or punctuationalist, uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of the theory of evolution as opposed to special creation." Because the fossils simply do not support many small changes between kinds over a long period of time, many evolutionists have at least been honest enough to admit this and have come up with a new theory called, "punctuated equilibrium" or the "hopeful monster theory". From the fossil record, they know that change didn't take place in small gradual steps, so they assume that the change took place in quick "quantum leaps" over long periods of time. In Darwin's theory, the changes were so slow and gradual that science cannot observe the evolution. The new theory says the change takes place so quickly it that too cannot be observed. Unobservable science? What a contradiction!

Talk about not answering posts, I've brought up several points which were ignored, and answered questions which were also skimmed over and ignored, and most have to do with science and logic.

Unfortunately, you can fight science with science, but you can't fight Faith with Faith, and that puts evolutionists at a disadvantage.
( I'm not talking about organized religion again here, just in case you flamers were loading your torches).

[Scout]

Originally Posted by Kuss929

I am not talking creation. I am talking about life on this planet and maintaining it. The fragility of life shows me that it is not intelligent design.
Gravity is a law that has never changed.

Okay, then:

According to evolutionists, "life" on this planet has existed for millions of years. That doesn't show that it's too fragile.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Kuss929

I am not talking creation. I am talking about life on this planet and maintaining it. The fragility of life shows me that it is not intelligent design.

Man, I see the opposite. I see man as an incredibly resilient survivor. And the human body can withstand serious deprivations before quitting.

The only part of the body I've ever really studied with scientific rigor is the circulatory system. And it is amazingly perfect in its design.

[chkaotic]

Originally Posted by Custom900

Exactly, and that even backs up my point. Darwin didn't have the technology we have today in order to delve into life the way we do. According to Darwin things work on a very simplistic order of chance.

As we look into life as deep as DNA strands and beyond we see complexity that points towards Intelligent Design, not chance or accident.

And I'm not saying Darwin is right either, or even that "evolution" itself is right either.. thats the biggest misconception I see is that if you dont believe in creationism you automatically believe in evolution, or more specifically, "darwin's" evolution.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by chkaotic

And I'm not saying Darwin is right either, or even that "evolution" itself is right either.. thats the biggest misconception I see is that if you dont believe in creationism you automatically believe in evolution, or more specifically, "darwin's" evolution.

I can appreciate your viewpoint. Truly.

You asked before "why debate it"?

Well, Custom has an idea that it is "fun"

Me, and if I might say, LTL, enjoy "broadening our horizons", though he doesn't share the same views as I do.

Jaim, which in prior exchanges with him, seems like a good guy, that feels strongly about his convictions.

Phobe, has a natural knack to prove his point, somewhat sarcastically, if not always entertaining.

Kuss, I don't know too much about.

Esoteric, I believe, wants to enlighten us to pure scientific fact, which isn't a bad thing at all, and also feels strongly about his convictions.

Overall, when something debated among people who don't revert to calling each other Nazi's, it can be a healthy exercise.

[Kuss929]

Originally Posted by Scout

Okay, then:

According to evolutionists, "life" on this planet has existed for millions of years. That doesn't show that it's too fragile.

Look at all the life that has been terminated.

Life only exists in a narrow window of temperature, pressure, and chemical composition (per species). Fairly fragile I would say. I just so happens that this planet has all the variables to support life just as Jupiter has all the right variables to support its type of atmosphere and phenomena.

You can look at it like the earth. There is a huge volume of space above the ground and a huge volume below the ground but the vast majority of life exists right at the frontier where the two areas meet.

[Kuss929]

Originally Posted by Scout

Kuss, I don't know too much about.

Phew.....I thought I was the only one.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by Kuss929

Phew.....I thought I was the only one.

I didn't mean to come off too pretentious, speaking for others....

[phobiaphobe]

Here's a question for the creationists and people of faith:

What will you do if intelligent extra-terrestrial life (or any ET life FWIW) is discovered in our lifetime? Will you modify your beliefs or abandon them altogether?

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Scout

Me, and if I might say, LTL, enjoy "broadening our horizons", though he doesn't share the same views as I do.

Yep, if a group of people sit around telling each other they're always right...they don't bother to learn.

Ideas that survive debate have vitality, and merit on some level.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Here's a question for the creationists and people of faith:

What will you do if intelligent extra-terrestrial life (or any ET life FWIW) is discovered in our lifetime? Will you modify your beliefs or abandon them altogether?

Why couldn't a creator have created life on other planets?

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

(or any ET life FWIW) is discovered in our lifetime?

Already happened. Not intelligent, but single cell type life has been found.

[esoteric]

Of course, I'm just going to reiterate this into the discussion (posted previously elsewhere):
http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1519041

[phobiaphobe]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Why couldn't a creator have created life on other planets?

So you're saying you would modify your beliefs? Does Christianity, in its various forms, accept that our planet isn't the only one harbouring life?

Yes I realize the argument is about creationism, not Christianity, but this question applies to any major religion.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Here's a question for the creationists and people of faith:

What will you do if intelligent extra-terrestrial life (or any ET life FWIW) is discovered in our lifetime? Will you modify your beliefs or abandon them altogether?

YES! BINGO!


I was waiting for this one to come up!

Okay, here's my view:

It doesn't matter. I have been asked by close friends and others who can debate these topics: UFO's, ET's, Dinosaurs, etc.

The Bible, in my viewpoint, weaves a tapestry of "How to live our lives" by lessons, parables, guidance, and provides a road map for enlightenment and salvation.

This is why the old-testament is still included. Yes, sacrifices, killing, etc. in the name of God is Old Testament doctrine. I believe it's still included so we, if nothing else, can learn a lesson from it - and shows the Grace of Jesus after his coming and resurrection.

Are UFO's or dinosaurs paramount for Salvation. No, not at all. Not included in the Bible? No big deal.

I believe if aliens were discovered, it would just divert non-believers from Christianity even farther, as do other diversions in life.

In Christianity, Satan loves to use diversions. I'm sure you've heard a variable of "Satan's best trick on the world was to make people believe he doesn't exist." In regular terms, this means he would absolutely rather have people not believe in his or God's existence, because he still wins. You can't have one without the other, in Christianity.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

So you're saying you would modify your beliefs? Does Christianity, in its various forms, accept that our planet isn't the only one harbouring life?

Some forms absolutely do.

[BDA116]

I'm pretty sure many religions either believe or hold it possible that our creator also created other worlds.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Scout

In Christianity, Satan loves to use diversions. I'm sure you've heard a variable of "Satan's best trick on the world was to make people believe he doesn't exist." In regular terms, this means he would absolutely rather have people not believe in his or God's existence, because he still wins. You can't have one without the other, in Christianity.

Which alludes to another good question.

What does it take to go to hell?

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Which alludes to another good question.

What does it take to go to hell?

Checking the "Kerry" box.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by esoteric

Of course, I'm just going to reiterate this into the discussion (posted previously elsewhere):
http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=1519041

Yep. Catholicism.

See my Post in "Limbo" or "Purgatory" thread.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Which alludes to another good question.

What does it take to go to hell?

Which religion?