[Scout]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

So, in other words, you think there will be more people in hell than in heaven?

Boy, that's a loaded question.

Okay, if you're looking at the "aboritiony" (I know I miss-spelled that) viewpoint, in terms of "exposure" to "doctrine", each person has different levels of exposure. There is specific text in the Bible on this.

If you're looking at different belief systems throughout the world and history, it comes down to the personal choice. I don't know what lies in the hearts of men, and I won't condemn those with different beliefs than I.

I will only use what I have learned through the Bible, and I will use the most blatant example of it:

The thief on the cross.

[Scout]

First, I'm on dial-up at home, which is friggin' frustrating.

Second, my kids are coming home right now (my 7 year old is vying for my attention).

I'm not taking an easy out, and I really don't mind getting into semantics, but I gotta continue this later. I'll be back on Sunday, if not sooner, when I have some spare time at work. Take care all, and ride well.

-Dan

[esoteric]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

And what good does that do him?

He doesn't have to buy the beer anymore. Duh.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Scout

Boy, that's a loaded question.

Okay, if you're looking at the "aboritiony" (I know I miss-spelled that) viewpoint, in terms of "exposure" to "doctrine", each person has different levels of exposure. There is specific text in the Bible on this.

If you're looking at different belief systems throughout the world and history, it comes down to the personal choice. I don't know what lies in the hearts of men, and I won't condemn those with different beliefs than I.

I will only use what I have learned through the Bible, and I will use the most blatant example of it:

The thief on the cross.

It's a loaded question perhaps. But I wanted to make sure I wasn't making any ASSumptions.

I think your view on a "ticket to hell" is common amongst the "believers".

Personally, I have a real problem with the logic involved there.

1) If it's a "war", why would God make rules, He knew would put Him in a losing position?

2) If He loves his creation, us, I can't believe He'd define the rules such that most of us will be forsaken by Him.

[phobiaphobe]

3) how can you be at war with an omnipotent being?

[Custom900]

I leave for a few hours and somehow the entire thread changes topics. I'm afraid to reply for the sake of addressing a subject that has been moved to the side.

[jaim]

Now, if there was a Satan. What makes your think it is a he. I has to be a she. Only women can make life seem like hell.

[Custom900]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

Here's a question for the creationists and people of faith:

What will you do if intelligent extra-terrestrial life (or any ET life FWIW) is discovered in our lifetime? Will you modify your beliefs or abandon them altogether?

Nope

(I need to pull out some notes and give a lecture, but I'll save that for another thread)
Many, if not most Scientists and Astronomers, Cosmologists, etc believe that the Galaxy, as well as Galaxies are far too dangerous to prohibit life. There have to be a lot of variables in place such as Gravitational Pull from the planet, the Sun \ Star, moon(s), as well as the Galaxy itself. The orbit has to be exact as well as the location of the Solar Systems placement within whatever said Galaxy. The heat of the Sun\Star has to be perfect - not too hot or too cold, and it cannot give off extreme amounts of poisonous gasses etc. That brings you to the planet itself. It has to have a perfect Atmosphere to combat the crap that surrounds it throughout space as well as filter radiation, light, etc. It also has to have the ability to destroy debris.

I could go on and on, but I don't feel like it at the moment. I'm too busy making my bike look tacky by putting decals on it.

Before I go back out to my haven called the garage though let me point out that the Earth has all of the perfect variables in place to support life. Again, I say Intelligent Design.

To answer your question though Phobe, I wouldn't change my mind. I do believe in beings that live "out of this world". I believe in God, angels, demons, etc. I Believe that we are spiritual beings, not just piles of dust that will blow in the wind when the last breath is taken.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

It's a loaded question perhaps. But I wanted to make sure I wasn't making any ASSumptions.

I think your view on a "ticket to hell" is common amongst the "believers".

Personally, I have a real problem with the logic involved there.

1) If it's a "war", why would God make rules, He knew would put Him in a losing position?

What's a loss? He, being God, isn't really in any position. We are.

It's for us to decide, through free will.

Originally Posted by luvtolean

2) If He loves his creation, us, I can't believe He'd define the rules such that most of us will be forsaken by Him.

No, LTL, we're forsaken by our own selves.

It's a simple thing asked. Not a whole doctrine. Just belief and acceptance, the rest is gravy. I gotta say, it's as simple as that.

But, and if you take the time to notice, as soon as you mention Jesus in most conversations (and this is outside doctrine, just personal speculation, before and after), there is an automatic aversion among most. To the next level extreme. It's okay to have metallic ribbons that say "God bless our troops", but I'm telling you, as soon as you mention Jesus Christ, natural aversion. You can set a watch to it. Watch and pay attention, it's really no bullshit.

And the fact is, it's a small decision, once decided, for a big reward.



I'll go so far as to say, if it was anything outside accepting Jesus, for the promised reward, there would be droves of people lining up (Like the powerball BS, for just a chance!). And the powerball **** is just for a lifetime. Not friggin' forever. So, I gotta ask, what would someone be giving up? I didn't give up jack ****, but gained a whole lot. One, was a different level of perception. It's real, I'm telling you. And trust me, I was the biggest "sinner" you could shake a stick at. Am I still? Probably, but that's a gimme. I still engage in activities which would make the Christian right blush. But, I know at the end of the day, I'm on the right team.





Let me put it another way- on that logic, rooting it directly to a common theme, America is set up for failure, and everyone in it, because there are a lot more "poor" than there are "rich". It's not so cut and dried.

Each of us has a decision to make. This isn't intimidation, it's just a reality. And the sky in my world is a deep baby blue my friend. And it's all good.

[Scout]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

3) how can you be at war with an omnipotent being?

People shake their fist at God, or just decide to ignore Him daily. Just like that.

[Custom900]

Originally Posted by Scout

But, and if you take the time to notice, as soon as you mention Jesus in most conversations (and this is outside doctrine, just personal speculation, before and after), there is an automatic aversion among most.

If you want we can make another thread altogether to discuss Jesus.

My opinion is this, and maybe I'm wrong, but you have to first accept Creativity - or sin for that matter - before you can get into the Theologic discussions about God.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Custom900

My opinion is this, and maybe I'm wrong, but you have to first accept Creativity - or sin for that matter - before you can get into the Theologic discussions about God.

C'mon, quit with the hypocrisy.

[Custom900]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

C'mon, quit with the hypocrisy.

How was my statement hypocrisy? I'm sure you meant that sarcastically.

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by Scout

When God writes (through Man) in the Bible, he does so for Man, in our terms. That's why he said one day, as the rising of the sun and setting of the sun, as in one 24 hour period. Not 1000 or 10000 years. 1 day.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c002.html

that doesn't answer my questions at all. So on the 6th day man was created and the 7th day he rested. So then how many years until Moses or Noah (whichever came next)? it wasn't one day. Then how many more years until Jesus? My point is maybe Adam and Eve were "cavemen" and we did evolve into present humans. Is there a specific mention of anyone in the bible being homo sapiens? Since its not said that they weren't say Homo Erectus or Homo Habilis, etc why can't they be? Am I right in thinking that no religious doctrine says man is the same physically now as he was in the earliest times? again I'm not really up on all the stuff in the Bible (or any other religious doctrine).

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by Custom900

If you want we can make another thread altogether to discuss Jesus.

My opinion is this, and maybe I'm wrong, but you have to first accept Creativity - or sin for that matter - before you can get into the Theologic discussions about God.

I don't think you really thought about that comment before you typed it. If you believe in Creativity then by definition you have to believe God existed first. So in that school of thought God would be the first thing you discuss.

[Custom900]

No, it says what I wanted it to, but it could have been written a bit more clearly. Theology is the "Study of God". What I was trying to say is that there is no real reason to move towards a study about God - Jesus if there isn't an acceptance of God \ Jesus in the first place as a Creator.

I was trying to make a point that ended up becoming jumbled somewhere.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Custom900

How was my statement hypocrisy? I'm sure you meant that sarcastically.

No, I meant hypocrisy.

It is very hypocritical to say you have no basis to debate God and creationism unless you believe...yet you debate evolution as the beginning of man (to me basically as religious as someone who believes in God).

Which way is it?

You can't challenge a belief system unless you already believe in it, or we can freely debate all ideas, hopefully with some modicum of intelligence?

[Custom900]

OK, any idea can be debated - whether you believe in it or not. I guess if we really wanted we could debated Phobe's Unicorn.

What I was trying to say, and I guess my point was missed, is that in this particular thread we have gotten ahead of ourselves. That's just my opinion. I just couldn't see why we would have jumped from a debate concerning a Creator to debating Jesus.

To me it was like debating ice-cream without believing that milk exists.

I hope that issue is clear now - if not you have my apologies for not being able to express myself properly.

[esoteric]

Originally Posted by Custom900

Theology is the "Study of God". What I was trying to say is that there is no real reason to move towards a study about God - Jesus if there isn't an acceptance of God \ Jesus in the first place as a Creator.

The error is that theology is not an exclusive topic. It's not simply "The study of 'God'" IF your god exists then one cannot truly study it from what I've gathered over my yers. IF your god does not exist then its state is best described as psychosis or neurosis, which is the realm of psychology adn not philosophy.
Taken from dictionary.com since it's convenient, it is "the rational and systematic study of religion and its influences and of the nature of religious truth." Now, rational and systematic in there seems like a contradiction next to religion, but that's how it's written. Existential presupposition is something relevant depending on what kind of position you're holding (relatively) in the philosophical view of things and has ramifications for what truths are determinatble and valid or invalid, but is not critical for itelligible discussion (neglecting the fact that this is religion on Fireblades). We can happily chat about unicorns, goblins, good Republicans, and plumbers who wear adequate underwear without the need that either us have any confidence in their existance, or even that they exist at all.
After doing a search for articles on existential presupposition in order to further convolute your warped and fecally impacted minds, I found the following and thought them kindof neat.
http://www.lingref.com/cpp/wccfl/24/paper1216.pdf
http://www.presenttruthmag.com/archive/XXV/25-3.htm

This is intriguingly relative :-)
http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~rclark/gorn.html

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Custom900

What I was trying to say, and I guess my point was missed, is that in this particular thread we have gotten ahead of ourselves. That's just my opinion. I just couldn't see why we would have jumped from a debate concerning a Creator to debating Jesus.

OK, I see what you're saying. Though I do disagree somewhat (what about those that view the Trinity as one entity?) I see your point.

[4MULA-R]

As far as i know, nobody knows if God exist or not,so dont waste your time argueing about. I like to believe that there is one that send me a beautiful daughter that gives me a smile everyday and that He kept me alive after a nasty accident on my bike just to be able to see her again, but there is something that i really hate is "religion" or all those fake people that go to church and get on their knees and eat the bread just to look good among themselves but after that, they go home and cheat, steal or just do wathever, that is what i hate about religions....I remember once somebody ask me which was my religion and i said that most of my family was catholic and this person said (she was a christian) that God is not God that he is Jehovah or wathever,and she told me that if i pray to him using the word God he wasn't going to listen to me...jjajajajjajjaaj and after all this bla bla bla about God and religion i can't help to ask this question: Who the F@%#* named God ?

[4MULA-R]

By the way...Thanks God for Motorcycles...

[Scout]

Originally Posted by 4MULA-R

As far as i know, nobody knows if God exist or not,so dont waste your time argueing about. I like to believe that there is one that send me a beautiful daughter that gives me a smile everyday and that He kept me alive after a nasty accident on my bike just to be able to see her again, but there is something that i really hate is "religion" or all those fake people that go to church and get on their knees and eat the bread just to look good among themselves but after that, they go home and cheat, steal or just do wathever, that is what i hate about religions....I remember once somebody ask me which was my religion and i said that most of my family was catholic and this person said (she was a christian) that God is not God that he is Jehovah or wathever,and she told me that if i pray to him using the word God he wasn't going to listen to me...jjajajajjajjaaj and after all this bla bla bla about God and religion i can't help to ask this question: Who the F@%#* named God ?

Ayep! That, once again is organized religion, and for me, cingular Christianity has nothing to do with that. Many organized religions claim "Christian" even in their title, and some have nothing to do with the "Christ" of the Bible.

About hyprocrites:

People see married couples cheat on each other, in reality and