[gr0undz3r0]

I have a small group of people that I sorta lead in the search for God and proof as the creator - God of the bible. So if anyone has any questions about My Lord please lay 'em on the table here. And give me time to respond.

[Custom900]

I'm surprised that no one has challenged you on this.
Have you read Lee Strobel's books, in particular "A Case for a Creator"?
If not get it - you will appreciate what it has to offer.


By the way - there is no way to discount the proof of God's existence or that we are His Creation. "Something" cannot come from "Nothing". Science proves this time and time again. No matter what the theory, everything leads to a Creator, or to put it in a politically correct term, "Intelligent Design".
Everyday Science proves God's existence. Biology proves it. History Proves God. Archeology is constanly digging up proof. I could go on, but I'll wait for some other response.

Good subject

[phobiaphobe]

When was the beginning of time? Is there a beginning?

When was God created? How? Has He always been there? Where?

[jaim]

Originally Posted by Custom900

I'm surprised that no one has challenged you on this.
Have you read Lee Strobel's books, in particular "A Case for a Creator"?
If not get it - you will appreciate what it has to offer.


By the way - there is no way to discount the proof of God's existence or that we are His Creation. "Something" cannot come from "Nothing". Science proves this time and time again. No matter what the theory, everything leads to a Creator, or to put it in a politically correct term, "Intelligent Design".
Everyday Science proves God's existence. Biology proves it. History Proves God. Archeology is constanly digging up proof. I could go on, but I'll wait for some other response.

Good subject

[Custom900]

Originally Posted by phobiaphobe

When was the beginning of time? Is there a beginning?

When was God created? How? Has He always been there? Where?

The beginning of time can only be found at the beginning of creation. There was no time as we know time before the earth, sun, moon, stars, galaxies, etc were formed. How do we guage time? By the orbit of the earth around the sun as well as the rotation of the earth.

God is another story all together. God is eternal. Eternal means to have no beginning or end.

I know that it's hard to understand an eternal God. As people we rationalize things and try to see things through human limitations. And infact, we are limited. As hard as Science has tried they cannot produce life, nor can they claim that something can come from nothing outside the existance of Intelligent Design - Hence God.

I'm not going to go off spouting scripture and quoting verses. That would be too easy.

Phobe, I'll be 100% honest with you. My biggest problem in believing in God was trying to understand God. I too used to ask, "Where did God come from?" "Who created God?" as well as other questions. It was fun to watch Christians struggle to find the answers to my questions as I prepaired my next attack.
It's a simple thing however that puts God in your face as you look into the night sky at the stars, galaxies, and planets. How can a person not be in awe of all there is? How can we recognize the frailty of life - of this planet in general in terms of life preservation and not see God's hand. I see a creation made on purpose by God.

I've been in the Athiestic shoes - I've walked through the questions. I may not have all the answers, but I do know the answers to what I believe is the truth.

[Mojave954]

Originally Posted by Custom900

The beginning of time can only be found at the beginning of creation. There was no time as we know time before the earth, sun, moon, stars, galaxies, etc were formed. How do we guage time? By the orbit of the earth around the sun as well as the rotation of the earth.

God is another story all together. God is eternal. Eternal means to have no beginning or end.

I know that it's hard to understand an eternal God. As people we rationalize things and try to see things through human limitations. And infact, we are limited. As hard as Science has tried they cannot produce life, nor can they claim that something can come from nothing outside the existance of Intelligent Design - Hence God.

I'm not going to go off spouting scripture and quoting verses. That would be too easy.

Phobe, I'll be 100% honest with you. My biggest problem in believing in God was trying to understand God. I too used to ask, "Where did God come from?" "Who created God?" as well as other questions. It was fun to watch Christians struggle to find the answers to my questions as I prepaired my next attack.
It's a simple thing however that puts God in your face as you look into the night sky at the stars, galaxies, and planets. How can a person not be in awe of all there is? How can we recognize the frailty of life - of this planet in general in terms of life preservation and not see God's hand. I see a creation made on purpose by God.

I've been in the Athiestic shoes - I've walked through the questions. I may not have all the answers, but I do know the answers to what I believe is the truth.

Okay, I will get in here and stir this pot a bit.

You answered the questions without answering them. You have no proof that God exists other than a book written many centuries ago by a bunch of guys sitting around drinking wine and smoking hashish. Grant it, our universe is awe inspiring thing. Was there someone/something responsible for all this? IMO Jesus was a good talker, he convinced people of his being pure and they convinced others. Does this sound familiar???? David Karesh (Waco), Jim Jones (Guyana), and let us not forget that nut that two or three years ago convinced those kids that a Comet was going to come and take them away. To me, religon preys on the weak to believe in something and then herds them like SHEEP.

I support those that believe that they would rather live as though there is a God to arrive at his doorstep after death then to live as though there ins't a God only to find out there is. That would be bad. My theory is as long as you live your life cleanly you will be forgiven.

[ND4SPD]

Originally Posted by Mojave954

IMO Jesus was a good talker, he convinced people of his being pure and they convinced others. Does this sound familiar???? David Karesh (Waco), Jim Jones (Guyana), and let us not forget that nut that two or three years ago convinced those kids that a Comet was going to come and take them away.

The difference being that Jesus has had followers for thousands of years. The other guys had maybe a few years, and now most of them are dead.

Makes one wonder a bit...

[phobiaphobe]

There are some questions that can never be answered. It's easier for me to accept that I know nothing rather than subscribe to made-up solutions. Fact: you can't prove there is a God, no matter what you believe.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by Custom900

By the way - there is no way to discount the proof of God's existence or that we are His Creation. "Something" cannot come from "Nothing". Science proves this time and time again. No matter what the theory, everything leads to a Creator, or to put it in a politically correct term, "Intelligent Design".
Everyday Science proves God's existence. Biology proves it. History Proves God. Archeology is constanly digging up proof. I could go on, but I'll wait for some other response.

Good subject

Man, you're so blinded by your religion, you have absolutely zero understanding of science.

There is no way to prove, or disprove, the existence of God, Allah, Buddah or
Satan. The organized religions made sure of this.

So while I appreciate the fact you belive in God, arguments like the one you just made do nothing but hurt your religion.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by Custom900

..."Something" cannot come from "Nothing"...

A couple of questions (for discussion, not just for Custom):

If something cannot come from nothing, then where did God come from?
Have you ever thought of the things that are "frowned upon"? For example, eating meat on Friday; Islam's dislike/distrust of pork; why those ten commandments; etc.
Why, if Jesus advocated non-public worship, do we congregate in large groups to worship Jesus?
Why do we worship and pray to Jesus, when Moses specifically said that we are only to worship our one and only God?
And why do we pray to saints for specific things, is God delegating his authority?

I've always loved this topic. I used to challenge my unit chaplain almost daily on the same subject. And before you flame me as an atheist, I do believe there is a God, I just don't believe in religion.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by Mojave954

To me, religon preys on the weak to believe in something and then herds them like SHEEP.

I agree. However, I've always believed that religion, at it's core, aimed at getting the uneducated masses to adhere to more intelligent/scientific ideas of the times:

Don't eat meat on Friday/Don't eat pork: Traditionally, Monday was the "slaughter day" for domesticated animals. Without more advanced preservation techniques, meat would be "bad" by Friday and cause people to get sick. Pork's shelf life is so short that under the heat of the desert sun, it would be disease ridden within a day.

The ten commandments all reflect the "new" civilization. As man progressed and became more sedentary, it became necessary to live next to someone for decades as opposed to a rainy season. Don't covet your neighbor's wife or steal his ****. This will keep him from killing you.

Unfortunately, people in power will use whatever means they have to subjugate those around them and religion happens to be one of the easiest forms to manipulate, especially among those who cannot form their own coherent thoughts.

[Custom900]

Just for curiosity I'm going to wait and see who else responds. I've got a few comments, but I'm gonna wait a bit.

By the way - I respect everyone's comments and beliefs here. Like I said before - I did not always believe in God the way I do now. In fact, I used to challenge any and everyone that was a Christian. I did so to the point of leading a Christian friend of mine out of the Ministry. I made some very valid points and posed a few questions that were tough to answer.

On a side note though, I continued with my God bashing until I could no longer deny God's existence.

[Custom900]

[quote=seamus]I agree. However, I've always believed that religion, at it's core, aimed at getting the uneducated masses to adhere to more intelligent/scientific ideas of the times:quote]

Just for the heck of it - Education isn't one of my weak points. I've been to several different Colleges and Universities. To mention a few I have attended SCAD (Savannah College of Art and Design), Augusta State University, Gwinnett Hall, and Andersonville Theological.

I've made a life out of Education. I like to learn and read. It's just one of those things I unexpectedly gained an interest in after High School.

On top of the Arts degrees I've recieved I am now looking to recieve a Doctorate in Theology this year. And I'll do so with a 4.0

OK - Now that I've briefed my education resume I think I need to go for one in Psychology and Political Science.

There's just something cool about things that lead to "reasonable debate".

[Zippy]

Oh this is silly. There is beer, therefore, god must exist. And he must want us to be drunk, at least some of the time.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by Custom900

I've made a life out of Education. I like to learn and read. It's just one of those things I unexpectedly gained an interest in after High School.

On top of the Arts degrees I've recieved I am now looking to recieve a Doctorate in Theology this year. And I'll do so with a 4.0

OK - Now that I've briefed my education resume I think I need to go for one in Psychology and Political Science.

There's just something cool about things that lead to "reasonable debate".

Originally Posted by seamus

I agree. However, I've always believed that religion, at it's core, aimed at getting the uneducated masses to adhere to more intelligent/scientific ideas of the times:

It wasn't meant to insult your education level.

The Books (whichever applies; Torah, Bible, Quran) were written almost 2 thousand years ago. What they were writing and teaching were ideas that are now either common sense for a civilized society or outdated. Unfortunately, no one wants to buck tradition to update some of the ideas and those that do get ostracised.

[nedro]

Why is it that the more I seek truth in God, the less there is to believe in?

[jaim]

Let's get a few things straight.

There is no proof for the existance of the judeo christian god. In fact there is no proof of any gods existance.
Those who feel the need to believe in a god or gods have a psychological disorder and should be treated as such.
Anyone who has done a critical scientific study of the existance of a god and has come to the conclusion that there is a god is in the catagory of people in the previous sentence.

[nhfirefighter13]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3593866248238036452&q=a+hepful+han d


Personally, I don't have a problem with people believing in the deity of their choosing. Knock yourselves out.

I do have a problem with those people trying to tell me that I'm wrong, or that MY beliefs are going to send me straight to Hell, or trying to persuade me to think the way that they do.

People who insist that they can absolutely prove "God" exists just humors me.

Carry on.

[Getsome]

Talk about reviving an old and dead thread..... 2 years before the first response and now you guys wanna talk about it....

[Scout]

Okay, got my attention.

When these things pop up, I try to use the "treat others...." rule.

So, (and some know this anyway), I will not single you out for a personal attack, period.

I will also not make broad statements that encompass all believers or non-believers, because that would be not only incorrect, but blatantly resentful, as many people have a twist on the same belief, or many that don't believe in religion, may believe in God.

So, you will not see from me, "all of you are window lickers" or "have disorders" as that would show a level of ignorance not seen since I read this on a blog somewhere:

"I had someone once tell me that they believed in evolution and that white people descended from lions and black people from bears. I was just so stunned. And she was so proud of how modern and scientific she was for believing in evolution. I didn't think to ask her about polar bears until later."

[nhfirefighter13]

Polar bears have black skin though.


Sorry...Couldn't resist....