[sheepofblue]

Judge not lest ye be judged:

Probably to late for everyone above the age of 3. We all make judgement calls on other people (will this person pay, will this person do the job, is she hot , is this person nice, etc.)

So today don't forget to judge yourself also because in the end you to will be judged

[Mojave954]

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

Judge not lest ye be judged:

Probably to late for everyone above the age of 3. We all make judgement calls on other people (will this person pay, will this person do the job, is she hot , is this person nice, etc.)

So today don't forget to judge yourself also because in the end you to will be judged

Alrighty then, let the games begin.....

Going to need the bigger bucket on this one.

[figment]

"Judge/Judgement" Is a loaded term not always comprehensively used or understood; especially in context.

"The Collaborative International Dictionary of English v.0.48"
Judge \Judge\ (j[u^]j), n. [OE. juge, OF. & F. juge, fr. OF.
jugier, F. juger, to judge. See Judge, v. i.]
[1913 Webster]
1. (Law) A public officer who is invested with authority to
hear and determine litigated causes, and to administer
justice between parties in courts held for that purpose.
[1913 Webster]

The parts of a judge in hearing are four: to direct
the evidence; to moderate length, repetition, or
impertinency of speech; to recapitulate, select, and
collate the material points of that which hath been
said; and to give the rule or sentence. --Bacon.
[1913 Webster]

2. One who has skill, knowledge, or experience, sufficient to
decide on the merits of a question, or on the quality or
value of anything; one who discerns properties or
relations with skill and readiness; a connoisseur; an
expert; a critic.
[1913 Webster]

A man who is no judge of law may be a good judge of
poetry, or eloquence, or of the merits of a
painting. --Dryden.
[1913 Webster]

3. A person appointed to decide in a trial of skill, speed,
etc., between two or more parties; an umpire; as, a judge
in a horse race.
[1913 Webster]

4. (Jewish Hist.) One of the supreme magistrates, with both
civil and military powers, who governed Israel for more
than four hundred years.
[1913 Webster]

5. pl. The title of the seventh book of the Old Testament;
the Book of Judges.
[1913 Webster]

Judge Advocate (Mil. & Nav.), a person appointed to act as
prosecutor at a court-martial; he acts as the
representative of the government, as the responsible
adviser of the court, and also, to a certain extent, as
counsel for the accused, when he has no other counsel.

Judge-Advocate General, in the United States, the title of
two officers, one attached to the War Department and
having the rank of brigadier general, the other attached
to the Navy Department and having the rank of colonel of
marines or captain in the navy. The first is chief of the
Bureau of Military Justice of the army, the other performs
a similar duty for the navy. In England, the designation
of a member of the ministry who is the legal adviser of
the secretary of state for war, and supreme judge of the
proceedings of courts-martial.

Syn: Judge, Umpire, Arbitrator, Referee.

Usage: A judge, in the legal sense, is a magistrate appointed
to determine questions of law. An umpire is a person
selected to decide between two or more who contend for
a prize. An arbitrator is one chosen to allot to two
contestants their portion of a claim, usually on
grounds of equity and common sense. A referee is one
to whom a case is referred for final adjustment.
Arbitrations and references are sometimes voluntary,
sometimes appointed by a court.
[1913 Webster]

Judge \Judge\, v. t.
1. To hear and determine by authority, as a case before a
court, or a controversy between two parties. "Chaos
[shall] judge the strife." --Milton.
[1913 Webster]

2. To examine and pass sentence on; to try; to doom.
[1913 Webster]

God shall judge the righteous and the wicked.
--Eccl. iii.
7.
[1913 Webster]

To bring my whole cause 'fore his holiness,
And to be judged by him. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

3. To arrogate judicial authority over; to sit in judgment
upon; to be censorious toward.
[1913 Webster]

Judge not, that ye be not judged. --Matt. vii.
1.
[1913 Webster]

4. To determine upon or deliberation; to esteem; to think; to
reckon.
[1913 Webster]

If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord.
--Acts xvi.
15.
[1913 Webster]

5. To exercise the functions of a magistrate over; to govern.
[Obs.]
[1913 Webster]

Make us a king to judge us. --1 Sam. viii.
5.
[1913 Webster]

Judge \Judge\, v. i. [imp. & p. p. Judged (j[u^]jd); p. pr. &
vb. n. Judging.] [OE. jugen, OF. jugier, F. juger, L.
judicare, fr. judex judge; jus law or right + dicare to
proclaim, pronounce, akin to dicere to say. See Just, a.,
and Diction, and cf. Judicial.]
[1913 Webster]
1. To hear and determine, as in causes on trial; to decide as
a judge; to give judgment; to pass sentence.
[1913 Webster]

The Lord judge between thee and me. --Gen. xvi. 5.
[1913 Webster]

Father, who art judge
Of all things made, and judgest only right!
--Milton.
[1913 Webster]

2. To assume the right to pass judgment on another; to sit in
judgment or commendation; to criticise or pass adverse
judgment upon others. See Judge, v. t., 3.
[1913 Webster]

Forbear to judge, for we are sinners all. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

3. To compare facts or ideas, and perceive their relations
and attributes, and thus distinguish truth from falsehood;
to determine; to discern; to distinguish; to form an
opinion about.
[1913 Webster]

Judge not according to the appearance. --John vii.
24.
[1913 Webster]

She is wise if I can judge of her. --Shak.
[1913 Webster]

"WordNet (r) 2.0"
judge
n 1: a public official authorized to decide questions bought
before a court of justice [syn: justice, jurist, magistrate]
2: an authority who is able to estimate worth or quality [syn:
evaluator]
v 1: determine the result of (a competition)
2: form an opinion of or pass judgment on; "I cannot judge some
works of modern art"
3: judge tentatively or form an estimate of (quantities or
time); "I estimate this chicken to weigh three pounds"
[syn: estimate, gauge, approximate, guess]
4: pronounce judgment on; "They labeled him unfit to work here"
[syn: pronounce, label]
5: put on trial or hear a case and sit as the judge at the
trial of; "The football star was tried for the murder of
his wife"; "The judge tried both father and son in
separate trials" [syn: adjudicate, try]

"Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0"
160 Moby Thesaurus words for "judge":
account, account as, act between, adjudge, adjudicate, adjudicator,
administer, administer justice, administrate, allow, amateur,
appraise, appraiser, appreciate, approximate, arbiter,
arbiter elegantiarum, arbiter of taste, arbitrate, arbitrator,
assess, assume, authority, bargain, be afraid, be judicious, beak,
believe, bon vivant, call, charge the jury, check, cognoscente,
collect, collector, conceive, conciliator, conclude,
conduct a trial, conjecture, connaisseur, connoisseur, consider,
count, court, critic, daresay, decide, decree, deduce, deduct,
deem, deemster, demonstrate, dempster, derive, determine,
dilettante, draw, epicure, epicurean, esteem, estimate, evaluate,
evaluator, exercise judgment, expect, expert, express an opinion,
fancy, find, form an opinion, gather, go between, good judge,
gourmand, gourmet, guess, have a hunch, have an idea,
have an impression, have an inkling, have the idea, hear, hold,
hold as, imagine, impartial arbitrator, infer, intercede,
intermediary, intermediate, interpose, intervene, judger,
judicator, jurist, justice, look upon as, magistrate, maintain,
make, make out, make terms, maven, measure, mediate, mediator,
meet halfway, moderate, moderator, negotiate, negotiator, opine,
pass sentence, peacemaker, pine, place, preside, presume,
pronounce sentence, prove, put, rate, reckon, reconciler, referee,
refined palate, regard, represent, review, reviewer, rule,
set down as, settle, show, sit in judgment, size up, step in,
suppose, surmise, suspect, take, take for, take it, test, think,
think of, third party, treat with, trow, try, try a case, umpire,
unbiased observer, value, view as, virtuoso, ween, weigh

"Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary"
Judge
(Heb. shophet, pl. shophetim), properly a magistrate or ruler,
rather than one who judges in the sense of trying a cause. This
is the name given to those rulers who presided over the affairs
of the Israelites during the interval between the death of
Joshua and the accession of Saul (Judg. 2:18), a period of
general anarchy and confusion. "The office of judges or regents
was held during life, but it was not hereditary, neither could
they appoint their successors. Their authority was limited by
the law alone, and in doubtful cases they were directed to
consult the divine King through the priest by Urim and Thummim
(Num. 27:21). Their authority extended only over those tribes by
whom they had been elected or acknowledged. There was no income
attached to their office, and they bore no external marks of
dignity. The only cases of direct divine appointment are those
of Gideon and Samson, and the latter stood in the peculiar
position of having been from before his birth ordained 'to begin
to deliver Israel.' Deborah was called to deliver Israel, but
was already a judge. Samuel was called by the Lord to be a
prophet but not a judge, which ensued from the high gifts the
people recognized as dwelling in him; and as to Eli, the office
of judge seems to have devolved naturally or rather ex officio
upon him." Of five of the judges, Tola (Judg. 10:1), Jair (3),
Ibzan, Elon, and Abdon (12:8-15), we have no record at all
beyond the bare fact that they were judges. Sacred history is
not the history of individuals but of the kingdom of God in its
onward progress.

In Ex. 2:14 Moses is so styled. This fact may indicate that
while for revenue purposes the "taskmasters" were over the
people, they were yet, just as at a later time when under the
Romans, governed by their own rulers.

"Bouvier's Law Dictionary, Revised 6th Ed (1856)"
JUDGE. A public officer, lawfully appointed to decide litigated questions
according to law. This, in its most extensive sense, includes all officers
who are appointed to decide such questions, and not only judges properly so
called, but also justices of the peace, and jurors, who are judges of the
facts in issue. See 4 Dall. 229; 3 Yeates, IR. 300. In a more limited sense,
the term judge signifies an officer who is so named in his commission, and
who presides in some court.
2. Judges are appointed or elected, in a variety of ways, in the United
States they are appointed by the president, by and with the consent of the
senate; in some of the states they are appointed by the governor, the
governor and senate, or by the legislature. In the United States, and some
of the states, they hold their offices during good behaviour; in others, as
in New York, during, good behaviour, or until they shall attain a certain
age and in others for a limited term of years.
3. Impartiality is the first duty of a judge; before he gives an
opinion, or sits in judgment in a cause, he ought to be certain that he has
no bias for or against either of the parties; and if he has any (the
slightest) interest in the cause, he is disqualified from sitting as judge;
aliquis non debet esse judex in propria causa; 8 Co. 118; 21 Pick. Rep. 101;
5 Mass. 92; 13 Mass. 340; 6 Pick. R. 109; 14 S. & R. 157-8; and when he is
aware of such interest, he ought himself to refuse to sit on the case. It
seems it is discretionary with him whether he will sit in a cause in which
he has been of counsel. 2 Marsh. 517; Coxe, 164; see 2 Binn. 454. But the
delicacy which characterizes the judges in this country, generally, forbids
their sitting in such a cause.
4. He must not only be impartial, but he must follow and enforce the
law, whether good or bad. He is bound to declare what the law is, and not
to make it; he is not an arbitrator, but an interpreter of the law. It is
his duty to be patient in the investigation of the case, careful in
considering it, and firm in his judgment. He ought, according to Cicero,
"never to lose sight that he is a man, and that he cannot exceed the power
given him by his commission; that not only power, but public confidence has
been given to him; that he ought always seriously to attend not to his
wishes but to the requisitions of law, of justice and religion." Cic. pro.
Cluentius. A curious case of judicial casuistry is stated by Aulus Gellius
Att. Noct. lib: 14, cap. 2, which may be interesting to the reader.
5. While acting within the bounds of his jurisdiction, the judge is hot
responsible for any error of judgment, nor mistake he may commit as a judge.
Co. Litt. 294; 2 Inst. 422; 2 Dall. R. 160; 1 Yeates, R. 443; N. & M'C. 168;
1 Day, R. 315; 1 Root, R. 211; 3 Caines, R. 170; 5 John. R. 282; 9 John. R.
395; 11 John. R. 150; 3 Marsh. R. 76; 1 South. R. 74; 1 N. H. Rep. 374; 2
Bay, 1, 69; 8 Wend. 468; 3 Marsh. R. 76,. When he acts corruptly, he may be
impeached. 5 John. R. 282; 8 Cowen, R. 178; 4 Dall. R. 225.
6. A judge is not competent as a witness in a cause trying before him,
for this, among other reasons, that he can hardly be deemed capable of
impartially deciding on the admissibility of his own testimony, or of
weighing. it against that of another. Martin's R. N. S. 312. Vide, Com.
Dig. Courts, B 4, C 2, E 1, P 16 justices, 1 1, 2, and 3; 14 Vin. Ab. 573;
Bac. Ab. Courts, &c., B; 1 Kent, Com. 291; Ayl. Parerg. 309; Story, Const.
Index, h.t. See U. S. Dig. Courts, I, where will be found an abstract of
various decisions relating to the appointment and powers of judges in
different states. Vide Equality; Incompetency.;

"WordNet (r) 2.0"
judgement
n 1: the legal document stating the reasons for a judicial
decision; "opinions are usually written by a single
judge" [syn: opinion, legal opinion, judgment]
2: an opinion formed by judging something; "he was reluctant to
make his judgment known"; "she changed her mind" [syn: judgment,
mind]
3: the cognitive process of reaching a decision or drawing
conclusions [syn: judgment, judging]
4: ability to make good judgments [syn: sagacity, sagaciousness,
judgment, discernment]
5: the capacity to assess situations or circumstances shrewdly
and to draw sound conclusions [syn: judgment, sound
judgment, sound judgement, perspicacity]
6: (law) the determination by a court of competent jurisdiction
on matters submitted to it [syn: judgment, judicial
decision]
7: the act of judging or assessing a person or situation or
event; "they criticized my judgment of the contestants"
[syn: judgment, assessment]

"Moby Thesaurus II by Grady Ward, 1.0"
48 Moby Thesaurus words for "judgement":
acumen, adjudication, appraisal, assessment, belief, censure,
common sense, conclusion, condemnation, criticism, decision,
decree, determination, disapproval, discernment, discretion,
discrimination, estimation, evaluation, finding, good sense,
intelligence, judgment, judiciousness, level-headedness, mind,
opinion, order, outcome, perception, percipience, perspicacity,
perspicuousness, prudence, reproof, result, ruling, sagacity,
sentiment, shrewdness, understanding, upshot,valuation, verdict,
view, way of thinking, wisdom, wit

[luvtolean]

I think in the religious context it is normally understood. Even the dictionary uses a verse to demonstrate meaning:

God shall judge the righteous and the wicked.
--Eccl. iii.
7.
[1913 Webster]

Sounds pretty simple. If you decide, for example, homosexuals, or people who have abortions will goto hell or are wicked, you should worry about having the same fate.

I also think SoB's comments on judging things like looks was a bit tongue in cheek. Of course, that's my judgement.

Edit, for those that seem to never mention it, the "penalty" is given in Matthew vs 2:

Matthew 7:1-2

1 Judge not, that ye be no judged
2 For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

[figment]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I think in the religious context it is normally understood. Even the dictionary uses a verse to demonstrate meaning:

God shall judge the righteous and the wicked.
--Eccl. iii.
7.
[1913 Webster]

Sounds pretty simple. If you decide, for example, homosexuals, or people who have abortions will goto hell or are wicked, you should worry about having the same fate.

I also think SoB's comments on judging things like looks was a bit tongue in cheek. Of course, that's my judgement.

Your last sentence illustrates the point. You're not passing judgement on sheep, just using your own perspective to understand the cirumstances. We all use judgment every day and rightfully so. But to pass judgement on anyone as a condemnation, including yourself is not biblicaly correct, even though some of us fail miserably.

[luvtolean]

Uh, it was a joke. A pun really.

[figment]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Uh, it was a joke. A pun really.

you stated it was generaly understood. I just added some clarification.

[nedro]

Do you guys also believe in Santa Clause? Not St. Nick. I mean the big red guy in the sky.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by nedro

Do you guys also believe in Santa Clause? Not St. Nick. I mean the big red guy in the sky.

Do you really believe property values in the Bay Area will never drop?

[figment]

Originally Posted by nedro

Do you guys also believe in Santa Clause? Not St. Nick. I mean the big red guy in the sky.

Never heard of

the big red guy in the sky

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by figment

Your last sentence illustrates the point. You're not passing judgement on sheep, just using your own perspective to understand the cirumstances. We all use judgment every day and rightfully so. But to pass judgement on anyone as a condemnation, including yourself is not biblicaly correct, even though some of us fail miserably.

Actually it was a spark in my sheeply brain. The passage is usually used to tell people not to be judgemental. But as was pointed out we all use judgement every day. Remember this as you are using YOUR judgement and use some of the same to look inward at yourself. You might like what you see, you might not. My prediction, if you are the kind of people I have met on the forum so far, you will like most of what you see. But remember to look at all corners of your soul as you cannot hide anything from the lord. If you see something you judge poorly, fix it. Now the opportunity exists, later you may be facing judgement and feeling the shame for missing the opportunity.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by nedro

Do you guys also believe in Santa Clause? Not St. Nick. I mean the big red guy in the sky.

Despite my original sarcastic answer for your trolling, I actually want to use this as a means to demonstrate something. (figment did it to me first. )

Anyways, why shouldn't people believe in Santa Claus?

I remember as a child, before I knew the "truth", Christmas was always more magical. I mean, how awesome, some dude with a magic sleigh, reindeer, and a big jolly belly manages to drag all that crap down the chimney, eat milk and cookies, and do it millions of times in one night. When I found out the "truth", I was crushed. Christmas has never been quite the same. (though being around little ones that still believe is very close) And really, what had I gained?

I submit to you it's the same with God. It doesn't matter. Believing in God brings joy to millions of people's lives. Maybe even a bit of magic. It gives people something other than money or themselves to believe in. If they die, and that's it, no afterlife, they're spared the sadness we felt when we learned of Santa Claus. What's so wrong with that?

[phobiaphobe]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

.

Anyways, why shouldn't people believe in Santa Claus?

...When I found out the "truth", I was crushed. Christmas has never been quite the same. ...
.

1998 was a sad year wasn't it.

[luvtolean]

I actually still remember it, my friend Jonathan told me, uh, probably before you were born kid.

[sheepofblue]

Begone thread jackers

[luvtolean]

Hey, I've posted on topic several times.

If I go, I'm coming back with shears.

[sheepofblue]

long drive from CA and if you watch the movies the surfer boy does not come out OK in the south

[luvtolean]

Neither do sheep.

[esoteric]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I submit to you it's the same with God. It doesn't matter. Believing in God brings joy to millions of people's lives. Maybe even a bit of magic. It gives people something other than money or themselves to believe in. If they die, and that's it, no afterlife, they're spared the sadness we felt when we learned of Santa Claus. What's so wrong with that?

Ignorance is bliss. If having a god(s)/santa claus(es) makes people happy, more power to them, however, when that infection is spread and legislated and used as a cause for war, intimidation, hate, infringment upon individual rights and freedoms, etc. my tolerance for intolerance vanishes.

People have souls? Where does one keep it?

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by esoteric

Ignorance is bliss. If having a god(s)/santa claus(es) makes people happy, more power to them, however, when that infection is spread and legislated and used as a cause for war, intimidation, hate, infringment upon individual rights and freedoms, etc. my tolerance for intolerance vanishes.

Right, which gets back to the original thread topic, judge not.

Way too many people use religion as an excuse to push their aims. Often violently, and in violent disagreement with the teachings of their religion.

Ideas are not the problem, people's perversion of them is.

Ignorance is bliss, remember the Matrix? "I know this steak isn't real, but it tastes so good."

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by esoteric

Ignorance is bliss. If having a god(s)/santa claus(es) makes people happy, more power to them, however, when that infection is spread and legislated and used as a cause for war, intimidation, hate, infringment upon individual rights and freedoms, etc. my tolerance for intolerance vanishes.

People have souls? Where does one keep it?

feel free to ignore my post, it was for the potential gain of those that do believe, nothing more.

[BDA116]

Waitaminute.............what are you guys talking about with regards to Santa Claus not being real?
If you don't believe Santa is real, I'll kick your ass.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Right, which gets back to the original thread topic, judge not.

Way too many people use religion as an excuse to push their aims. Often violently, and in violent disagreement with the teachings of their religion.

Ideas are not the problem, people's perversion of them is.

Ignorance is bliss, remember the Matrix? "I know this steak isn't real, but it tastes so good."

And my point was that most all of are judgemental to a degree, therefore be prepared to be judged also. The folks that are pushing their aims seldom look inward. If you can pass judgement you will be and do good things by default (if not great)

[luvtolean]

I remember being taught that we would judge ourselves on "judgement day", do you guys believe that?

I have always, and will always, be my own worst critic.

[nedro]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Anyways, why shouldn't people believe in Santa Claus?

Because it isn't true. I suppose its O.K. for a child to dream of such things, but that doesn't make it reality.
And I'm not trolling!
Look at all of the haterid all of this "FAITH" causes. It's rediculous! Live and let live damn it!

[luvtolean]

Then answer my question. It is no less a fantasy that property will not drop in value in the Bay Area.

Yet, you proselytize about how it's no lose all the time.

There's only one problem here. There may or may not be a God. We don't know empirically.

We do know property values in the Bay Area most certainly have gone down, and stayed down, for nearly a decade in even my recent memory. And I'm younger than you.

I'm not much of a fan of organized religion. But that doesn't mean believing in a "higher being" is "rediculous". Believing property can't go down in price sure is.

[nedro]

But I'm not killing anyone in the process!
I'm not killing Muslams
I'm not killing Jews
I'm not killing Doctors
Religeon does everyone of those and more!
BTW, let me know when property values drop, maybe I could still catch a comet.

[figment]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I remember being taught that we would judge ourselves on "judgement day", do you guys believe that?

I have always, and will always, be my own worst critic.

no. I believe we will be judged by God. Accused by the accuser, but judged by God.

[figment]

Matthew 18:21-36 (New International Version)


The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?"
22 Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[a]
23 "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents[b] was brought to him.
25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26 "The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.'
27 The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28 "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii.[c] He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded.
29 "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30 "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt.
31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32 "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to.
33 Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?'
34 In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35 "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."

[esoteric]

Originally Posted by nedro

But I'm not killing anyone in the process!
I'm not killing Muslams
I'm not killing Jews
I'm not killing Doctors
Religeon does everyone of those and more!
BTW, let me know when property values drop, maybe I could still catch a comet.

Actually, that's like the no guns argument. Guns don't kill people. Religion doesn't kill people. People kill people. Just like motorcycles aren't inherently dangerous, just (some of) the people on them.
You'd best get your new sneakers on and drink the Cool-Aid if you want to ride the comet ;-)