What is Heaven?

DJChyk · 07-09-2006, 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WetShrub

Have you ever seen the movie What Dreams May Come with Robin Williams?

What Dreams May Come (1998)

That has a cool idea of what heaven could be. It is what ever you make it. What ever makes you most happy.

I loved it! Cuba Gooding, Jr is the angel.

The yogic teaching of lovingkindness encapsulates heaven to me. Being able to let go of negative feelings. Forgiveness. Living in the present. No material wants, desires or possessions. All those things that cloud seeing/feeling who you truly are become no longer necessary. We get so wrapped up in all of the "out there" that few take time to listen inwardly. I know, I sound like some new age goof, but it really is fascinating.

Think you like being on the track now? Have a stellar but rare moment where everything is just right - bike, track, you? Being aware of everything: the vibration of the engine, your physical being, your breath, even the environment around you can make every exeperience like that. Track, sex, eating...

Material things as the embodiment of heaven? Are we unhappy if those things go away? House burns down? Earthquake tears up track? Gear stolen? Loved ones die? We will search for replacements, but never quite get there.

Mojo and Scount have it right.

Zippy · 07-09-2006, 6:32 PM

So how can heaven be so great? If there is no evil, and no problems, and everything is just perfect all the time, how will you appreciate it? Without bad and evil, there is no good. Good is only a contrast to bad. If there's no bad, by definition, there's no good. So will you have memories of how bad everything was here on earth so you will be able apreciate heaven? If you don't, won't heaven be boring?

It's like, what good would riding on the racetrack be if everyone did it perfectly, and there was no risk, and no mistakes were possible? That would be crap. Is that what heaven would be like? Sounds like it would suck to me.

I think this heaven idea needs a big rethink. I think my own heaven is here and now but it only comes in bits and pieces. A permanant 'heaven' condition would no longer feel like heaven.

SomeStrangeGuy · 07-10-2006, 9:12 AM

how long is forever?

DreamRyder · 07-10-2006, 9:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SomeStrangeGuy

how long is forever?

an eternity

E.

BladeRider · 07-10-2006, 9:37 AM

I don't want to go to heaven... what happens to earth if everyone ends up in heaven? I would prefer to live here for a very very long time.

luvtolean · 07-10-2006, 1:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

Streets lined with gold and any and every other precious jewel that has ever/will ever exist. A place where we get a white stone with a new name on it that only the Creator knows and will call us by it.

If that is the case, who cares? Seriously.

Asphalt and cement would've seemed just as wondrous to most people 2000 years ago as gold and "precious stones" (which in your conception are no longer precious as they're common...think of say steel to stone age man and us) might have...but of course, gold and most precious stones are less useful than cement or asphalt...

"Everlasting Joy and Happiness"...though I don't really get into the new age "Yin and Yang" stuff...I really don't believe you can have joy and happiness without pain and suffering. I think it'd eventually end up hollow.

luvtolean · 07-10-2006, 1:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJChyk

Have a stellar but rare moment where everything is just right - bike, track, you? Being aware of everything: the vibration of the engine, your physical being, your breath, even the environment around you can make every exeperience like that.

I have had this before actually. I won my first race, and it seemed like child's play. Racer's call it "slowing it down", and for whatever reason, I really got there. I could've easily gone faster but didn't need to. It's very hard to get there, and I didn't really know how I'd done it exactly, so to be honest, I've never been back.

Quote:

Material things as the embodiment of heaven? Are we unhappy if those things go away? House burns down? Earthquake tears up track? Gear stolen? Loved ones die? We will search for replacements, but never quite get there.

Ah yes, the "new age" (or "eastern philosophy", which I was taught in a Buddhism class in college)argument I hate the most. Now before I sound like the most materialistic person ever, let me explain.

If you never have these things, you never have the experiences, and resultant happiness they provided.

I totally agree experiences last forever, and the mental aspect is what matters most. The people involved in the activities. But without the physical stuff, you can't have the experiences. You don't meet the people involved in the activity. Without loved ones...no love.

Scout, you should go back to school and become an astronomer. They look at that stuff everyday. Personally, I like reading what some of these astronomers/theoretical physicists write, check out pics from Hubble...but only when I don't have the time/money/inclination to be at the track...watching an event can never compare to participating for me.

DJChyk · 07-10-2006, 5:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I have had this before actually. I won my first race, and it seemed like child's play. Racer's call it "slowing it down", and for whatever reason, I really got there. I could've easily gone faster but didn't need to. It's very hard to get there, and I didn't really know how I'd done it exactly, so to be honest, I've never been back.

Cool stuff, ain't it?

luvtolean · 07-10-2006, 6:01 PM

Yep.

I've been able to "elevate" or whatever you want to call it doing other things too...tests, hiking and such...really amazing what the mind can do when you allow it.

I'll be the first to admit, the introspective parts of "Eastern" philiosophy have strong merit, but it just all falls apart for me when they tell me material things have nothing to do with happiness. In my world, material stuff isn't happiness, but material objects are necessary to get to the things that make me most happy.

evl_twn · 07-10-2006, 6:23 PM

Not to sound like a complete cheeseball, but I recently had a moment I would classify as an "elevation". I know absolutely nothing about philosophy, but I was on a big time high after leaving the track at Grattan for at least a day and a half. Combine great people, and blasting around a track, brings you to another level and drags you so far out of your normal, mundane daily routines that there's nothing that can bring you down. Not even blowing up one of your bikes. I also think that it wouldn't be like heaven if it were an every day occurence. Heaven happens in little slices during the course of your life, enjoy em when they hit you.

luvtolean · 07-10-2006, 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evl_twn

Not to sound like a complete cheeseball, but I recently had a moment I would classify as an "elevation". I know absolutely nothing about philosophy, but I was on a big time high after leaving the track at Grattan for at least a day and a half. Combine great people, and blasting around a track, brings you to another level and drags you so far out of your normal, mundane daily routines that there's nothing that can bring you down. Not even blowing up one of your bikes. I also think that it wouldn't be like heaven if it were an every day occurence. Heaven happens in little slices during the course of your life, enjoy em when they hit you.

Exactly my thinking.

Scout · 07-17-2006, 8:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Scout, you should go back to school and become an astronomer. They look at that stuff everyday.

LTL- I watch MotoGP on TV all the time, but it doesn't equal "Being There."

phobiaphobe · 07-17-2006, 5:33 PM

Funny this thread should get resurrected...

I was reading last week the early works of a certain author who once said (paraphrasing here) that communism, contrary to its rejection of God, is fundamentally similar to religion in the way that it forces people to subordinate themselves to an intangible "greater cause". (the state)

Agree or no?

seamus · 07-17-2006, 10:57 PM

The difference I see is that under communism, you are "good" to increase the status of the state. In religion, you are "good" to increase your own status in the eyes of God.

DreamRyder · 07-18-2006, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by evl_twn

Not to sound like a complete cheeseball, but I recently had a moment I would classify as an "elevation". I know absolutely nothing about philosophy, but I was on a big time high after leaving the track at Grattan for at least a day and a half. Combine great people, and blasting around a track, brings you to another level and drags you so far out of your normal, mundane daily routines that there's nothing that can bring you down. Not even blowing up one of your bikes. I also think that it wouldn't be like heaven if it were an every day occurence. Heaven happens in little slices during the course of your life, enjoy em when they hit you.

WOW you put that so well that it's as if you were reading my mind... kinda scary...

E.

vertical954rr · 05-05-2008, 1:06 AM

when i bite into a york peppermint patty i get the sensation of....

blue1000rr · 05-05-2008, 1:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojo1094

How can any place be better than our earth?

Let me help, or at least offer my thoughts. Our place, earth, is great. Lot's of fun, but also lot's of suffering, persecution, etc. Earth is only as good as WE make it.

Heaven, as it was described, is pure bliss. It is everything you desire and need, already taken care of, before you think you need it. It's everyone with total understanding and care for eachother. It's like earth, but without war, hunger, suffering, etc.

I think heaven is what we make it. It's what we desire, but it's more an emotion, a feeling. Much like the Creator has no defining gender, we are trying to put worldly words on something that is not of this plane of existance. The closest thing I have come to accept is, it is the time in my life when I am most comfortable. For me, well ... it's in my fathers arms, falling asleep on his chest. No where have I been happier, no where have I been more comfortable and safe.

I haven't loved anything since he died. I've enjoyed the hell out of the road, and certainly some women along the way, but yeah. Loved? Nope.

That is my heaven, my reward for this life. My driving force. In the end, I will once again be held by the one person that knew, that understood, that judged, that diciplined, that cared.

couldnt have put it better my self. a little rep power for you for that one.

08TexasBlade · 05-05-2008, 3:07 AM

from a PK: Heaven is not what you make it. What you desire and abhor are what make you fit to enter. Your heart decides whether you wish to profit from things which are acquired from the suffering of others, or simply to experience what you have not seen before. Many strive for personal acquisition in the name of "religion" by accepting the advice of a leader without questioning 'who gains?' from the direction. If the church gains, and no one is harmed, then look to the quote "By their fruit you shall know them". "Faith" is: "The substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things unseen", and is often used by the extremeist to require unjustified devotion to a cause. If you are to cause harm to others for your "Religion" then all you have is 'religion'.
Heaven is a place where peace rules omnipotently. The very acceptance of allowing others to be harmed to fullfill your desires elliminates you from being acceptible in heaven.
Granted, I would be willing to say "Vengence is mine saith the lord, and I love working for God". I know this would elliminate me from heaven, but there are circumstances where I would accept the outcome. If someone told me "You will have 37 virgins when you arrive in heaven..." I would be asking "How does this profit you?".
My interpretation of heaven? Where my actions bring me joy and no sorrow is brought to others by my actions. I seek no dominance, but the fullfillment of dreams for those who desire all to be fullfilled.
I was disturbed at first when I felt that God told me " You will never love anyone who loves you back". I always thought that everyone will find that "someone special" they would spend the rest of their life with. I just didn't understand HOW I love. If I die @ 200mph on two wheels, I die with the mate, doing what I love. No desire to be the cause of pain or remorse, simply to accomplish what brings joy to me without hurting anyone.
Why must we today find someone to blame for our ill fortune other than ourselves? do we not make the choice, be it good or ill?
"Heaven" is a place where we can be if our desires can be met without hurting another, knowing full well all the possible outcomes. I am not there yet, because my desires could possibly bring pain to another by my loss. If I fail to survive will they understand that I simply desired too much? Probably not, but today the point is probably moot. An old thread others have abandoned years ago.
May life bring you your dreams fullfilled without cost to another. I leave no legacy nor advisor other than this: If you bring joy to another may both your lives prosper, and if you intentionally bring pain, even through manipulation, may God visit this back on you 70 x 7 without fail. (Yes, I am not there yet, I believe that those who use and abuse should see justice served on them. Should God call on me to avenge he will need to provide proof, but I am available...)