'Holiday' trees removed

sheepofblue · 12-09-2006, 8:38 PM

In Seattle. Seems to be they represent nothing anyway so no great loss other than victory for the people that want to run everyones life (when their own is usually in a shambles)

abtech · 12-09-2006, 9:13 PM

Temples, Synagogues, Mosques and the Church of Scientology don't represent my beliefs. Can I have them taken down while they're at it?

luvtolean · 12-09-2006, 9:36 PM

Bastards.

When we get PC enough we lose all of our traditions...what do they attack next?

Custom900 · 12-09-2006, 10:09 PM

I'm not sure what a "Holiday" tree is in the first place. I know what a Christmas Tree is though.

In that case, they haven't lost anything.

Proto · 12-10-2006, 7:52 AM

Doesn't seem to be a problem in Dubai

Dubai, Christmas Photo Gallery by Brian McMorrow at pbase.com

luvtolean · 12-10-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proto

Doesn't seem to be a problem in Dubai

Dubai, Christmas Photo Gallery by Brian McMorrow at pbase.com

Yeah, I was in Singapore and Japan a few weeks ago, and there was "Merry Christmas" stuff, and Christmas trees everywhere.

It's one thing to force people to do something against their religion, it's another to allow Christmas trees.

abtech · 12-10-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Proto

Doesn't seem to be a problem in Dubai

Dubai, Christmas Photo Gallery by Brian McMorrow at pbase.com

What is wrong with this entire thing? When did the concept of religious freedom turn into oppression of the traditions of any particular group of people (let alone the majority of people in a particular country)?

If a particular group of people want to celebrate a holiday with an aluminum pole, feats of strength and the airing of grievances then more power to them, but let's not start tearing down other people's traditions for crying out loud.

luvtolean · 12-10-2006, 12:05 PM

Yep, my GF, who just took her Conlaw final, and I went over several cases on this.

It is quite legal to allow Christmas trees. The only requirement by the gov't is that public entities don't disallow other religions.

So, say one of these pieces of trash got pissed at our town circle here, which has a gigantic Christmas tree and nativity scene, got pissed and filed suit.

Prior case law would say the town has to allow say a Menorah, but there is absolutely no serious case law saying they have to take down the Christmas stuff, unless they refuse to allow other religions.

seamus · 12-10-2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abtech

What is wrong with this entire thing? When did the concept of religious freedom turn into oppression of the traditions of any particular group of people (let alone the majority of people in a particular country)?

If a particular group of people want to celebrate a holiday with an aluminum pole, feats of strength and the airing of grievances then more power to them, but let's not start tearing down other people's traditions for crying out loud.

OMG, I almost forgot.

Happy Festivus, Ab.

abtech · 12-10-2006, 1:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

OMG, I almost forgot.

Happy Festivus, Ab.

bah, humbug . . .

BDA116 · 12-10-2006, 3:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abtech

bah, humbug . . .

Would that be an airing of a grievance?

seamus · 12-10-2006, 3:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abtech

bah, humbug . . .

In that case, for my feat of strength I'm going to bend your aluminum pole into a "balloon animal".

That should make you smile.

abtech · 12-10-2006, 3:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

In that case, for my feat of strength I'm going to bend your aluminum pole into a "balloon animal".

That should make you smile.

The thought alone is making me smile . . .

deez · 12-10-2006, 4:35 PM

Seattle is very PC. I find this story very humorous, but then again I laugh at all of the holiday festerment. It's Christ's birthday but every year it's all about the marketing, lights, trees, old guy with a silver beard, and a bunch of other bullshit that has 0 to do with Christ.

abtech · 12-10-2006, 6:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deez

Seattle is very PC. I find this story very humorous, but then again I laugh at all of the holiday festerment. It's Christ's birthday but every year it's all about the marketing, lights, trees, old guy with a silver beard, and a bunch of other bullshit that has 0 to do with Christ.

Christ's birthday is the basis for the holiday, but many cultures have expanded on this and added their own traditional celebrations.

To censure any of these is BS.

deez · 12-10-2006, 6:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abtech

Christ's birthday is the basis for the holiday, but many cultures have expanded on this and added their own traditional celebrations.

To censure any of these is BS.

No. It's not the basis, IT IS THE HOLIDAY. That is why it's called CHRISTmas, because the holiday signifies the birth of the savior for the Christian religion. All of the other **** people have added is just that. A dumb tree, lights, stockings for the fatman, diamonds for your S/O,

If you want to participate, pray, go to church, do some volunteer work for the less fortunate, spend time with your family praying, going to church, etc. The marketing side of this holiday is utter bullshit. A tree being removed means absolutely nothing.

ozthis · 12-11-2006, 12:17 AM

The airport made the choice to take the trees down instead of decorating the airport with other religious symbols( in this case a menorah) They are the ones that made the choice that it would be a christmas(christian) theme or nothing.

typical!!
Port of Seattle staff felt adding the menorah would have required adding symbols for other religions and cultures in the Northwest.

The Seattle Times: Local News: Airport puts away holiday trees rather than risk being "exclusive"

deftones156 · 12-11-2006, 10:12 AM

First of all, there seems to be conflicting reports about whether they were "Christmas" trees or "Holiday" trees. If they were Christmas trees, then though the trees actually has nothing to do with Christian beliefs, the Rabbi's request would be valid since the tree has the name "Christmas" associated with it. If they were holiday trees, then his request holds no water since "holiday" has nothing to do with a particular religion.

Regardless, how in the heck does one get offended by a Douglas Fir?

On a similar note, it seems as though many in the general public have forgotten what we are actually guaranteed by the first amendment. We are guarateed freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. By disallowing things like nativity scenes or other religious decorations, we are actually violating the constitutional rights of those people who wish to display such items. The constitution says that I can be and practice whatever religion that I wish. That is freedom of religion. It does not say that you have the right to make me remove my religious decorations because you are offended. That is freedom from religion, and that is contradictory to our first amendment right. However, as much as I don't agree with it, if actual religious decorations are put on public land and paid for with tax dollars, then people do have the right to request that they are removed.

My final thought is this: what is the point of spending your entire life getting offended about things and dedicating all of your time to eliminating those things? What is the ultimate goal? Why not live life a bit, and enjoy your short time on this earth rather than searching for things to get pissed off about?

steingar · 12-11-2006, 10:55 AM

The Christmas tree has it's origins from the Yule, which was part of Pagan ceremonies celebrating the winter solstice. It was coopted by the early Christians for Christmas, since on one knew when Yeshu ben Yosef was born anyway.

And yeah, it sucks that folks have to get uptight about it. By the way, you can only get uptight if the religious imagery appears on public property, on private property you have the freedom of expression and religion, and can put up any old thing you like...

...so long as it does not feature or contain in any way shape or form human genitalia.

deftones156 · 12-11-2006, 11:01 AM

"By the way, you can only get uptight if the religious imagery appears on public property, on private property you have the freedom of expression and religion, and can put up any old thing you like..."

Exactly what I was saying in my previous post. But the question remains, were these Christmas trees or Holiday trees. In this instance the difference of one word either gives validity or it makes the Rabbi's argument moot.

seamus · 12-11-2006, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deftones156

Regardless, how in the heck does one get offended by a Douglas Fir?

Fir is Mirder!!

*Quick 26* · 12-11-2006, 12:01 PM

people take it to the extreme on some things

deftones156 · 12-11-2006, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seamus

Fir is Mirder!!

What don't we eat? RED MEAT!! Why don't we eat it? IT'S MURDER!!

*Quick 26* · 12-11-2006, 12:27 PM

i guess i am a jeffery domer to the animals then

deftones156 · 12-11-2006, 12:35 PM

Sorry, that was a random movie quote. Cow is tasty.

*svtcobras* · 12-11-2006, 9:43 PM

Yeah, figures. The People's Republic of Washington. Lived here 42 years minus 8 for military. I hate it. Four more and my daughter is out of school...
People here are high on themselves.

abtech · 12-11-2006, 9:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deez

No. It's not the basis, IT IS THE HOLIDAY. That is why it's called CHRISTmas, because the holiday signifies the birth of the savior for the Christian religion. All of the other **** people have added is just that. A dumb tree, lights, stockings for the fatman, diamonds for your S/O,

If you want to participate, pray, go to church, do some volunteer work for the less fortunate, spend time with your family praying, going to church, etc. The marketing side of this holiday is utter bullshit. A tree being removed means absolutely nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by abtech

To censure any of these is BS.

I stand by my previous post . . .

*Quick 26* · 12-12-2006, 8:38 AM

i heard on the radio this morning that they put the trees back up. the rabbi was recieving threatining calls from some of the locals, and i guess he decided not to sue

ozthis · 12-12-2006, 8:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quick 26

i heard on the radio this morning that they put the trees back up. the rabbi was recieving threatining calls from some of the locals, and i guess he decided not to sue

Now that is some "Christmas" spirit

sheepofblue · 12-12-2006, 10:48 AM

Yep politeness and courtesy win. Good for the Rabbi's common sense and courtesy. Shame on anyone that sent one of the 'odious' emails, you can disagree and even say they were being fools without being mean. Also why must others insist on competing with Christmas? Would it not make more sense to have decorations put up during THEIR major holiday? For instance I believe Ramadan (sorry if I spelled it wrong) is the major Islamic holiday, so encourage decoration of some sort if that is appropriate rather than trying to discourage Christians. Also I believe that Hanaka is a fairly minor Jewish holiday so promote your major holiday

And above all if someone is having a great day be happy for them