If you believe in God:

analogbear · 02-09-2007, 1:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

I disagree entirely

*sinfuldragon* · 02-09-2007, 1:48 PM

Perhaps some anger managment classes would do you some good....

MR_TiGGer · 02-09-2007, 2:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

I disagree entirely

So he's wrong too?? This is getting seriously controversial now

However, I personally don't believe but I am curious why people are. In a nutshell so to speak ....... or type

*sinfuldragon* · 02-09-2007, 3:22 PM

This has been cortroversial from the word go...

MR_TiGGer · 02-09-2007, 3:49 PM

Well as all religious debates go, this will end with the slaughter of millions to resolve the issue ...... or just lots of pointing of fingers & rude words instead

Could go either way, can't wait

*sinfuldragon* · 02-09-2007, 4:17 PM

I'm still waiting for someone to jump in and tell us that we are all going to burn in hell

MR_TiGGer · 02-09-2007, 5:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

I'm still waiting for someone to jump in and tell us that we are all going to burn in hell

Obviously you've not realized that hell is a given, especially for non-believers like me

*sinfuldragon* · 02-09-2007, 5:29 PM

Oh I realize it... I just love it when they get mad and say it... cracks me up.

MR_TiGGer · 02-09-2007, 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

Oh I realize it... I just love it when they get mad and say it... cracks me up.

I suspect that comment alone will add another 5 eternity's on your stay 'down there'

*sinfuldragon* · 02-09-2007, 6:57 PM

Yeah but on the plus side, I'll be there with Jimmy H and of course Mr. Cobain

MR_TiGGer · 02-09-2007, 7:47 PM

Ahh yes but considering the 10 rules of admission that must be adhered to completely on those stone tablet things, at least 95% of all people will be there as well.
Be one Hell of a party!! Ho ho ho

*sinfuldragon* · 02-09-2007, 7:56 PM

If there is a there, then I'll be there.... I have RSVP'd

MR_TiGGer · 02-09-2007, 8:01 PM

See ya there

leelover · 02-10-2007, 9:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analogbear

As I stated earlier, I agree with that, primarily because of the "If one is right, the other is wrong" issue

I understand that.
My comment was specificly regarding Sinfuldragon's in the post above mine, even though I didn't quote his.

leelover · 02-10-2007, 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

Okay here is my very short winded take on this matter. I myself don't believe however I'll never be so audacious as to look a believer in the eyes and tell them they are wrong, why? because who am I to try to crush someone's belief? I won't try to change anyones mind by trying to point out fact, trying to distort fact to suit my arguement, or even an elaborate lie to entice them over to my side. I say if your belief makes waking up in the morning a good thing then roll with it and don't feel you have to defend yourself/belief/god to anyone.

Ok, I understand where you are coming from. But...
What is wrong with someone/anyone explaining WHY they believe what they do. And exactly what they believe for that matter.

Such as: Where do you and the Tigger get your concept of hell and why are you going to end up there?

leelover · 02-10-2007, 9:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analogbear

Tomato, tomahto...To say we are posessed of a soul, and then that we are born innocent but with sin, means our souls' are stained with that sis...It sure can't be our life that is stained...

How did they give their right to rule the world? That presumes satan exists...No evidence of that. I remember the story...You sa you interpret the story that way. I don't.

That would depend on what you admit as evidence, counselor.
And that is a deep and broad subject.
If you refuse to look at certain aspects of anything, you can interpret it however suits your purpose.

Adam and Eve where given dominion over everything in the world, the Bible states. They had a personal face to face relationship with God. Their only caveat was to not eat from one tree. They chose to believe, and obey, another entity over their Lord regarding this. And thereby give their rights to him.

leelover · 02-10-2007, 9:41 AM

A common statement made regarding the Bible is that it is a work of man, and it's purpose is to allow control over others. To what end?

MR_TiGGer · 02-10-2007, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leelover

Adam and Eve where given dominion over everything in the world, the Bible states. They had a personal face to face relationship with God. Their only caveat was to not eat from one tree.

Considering that God is all knowing, all seeing then he is described as a having a nasty sense of humour for a deity, "It's all yours guys but leave the tree alone"?? Then why have the tree in the garden in the 1st place and not on top of a mountain or even why have the tree at all.
Being all knowing, then the whole thing was a set up from the start, or the actual events are simply fiction written by useless tossers in robes trying to blame women for everything once again.
What a load of bollocks this whole tree thing is

Quote:

Originally Posted by leelover

Such as: Where do you and the Tigger get your concept of hell and why are you going to end up there?

Tongue firmly in cheek on this issue, after all if the bible is to be believed, then who won't go to Hell exactly?? And if just saying sorry is enough then no one will go, or (As I suspected all along) if you're willing to accept that God is a reality and go to church, give all your money away .... to the church then the 'Oh so honest' priests will write you a note.

All in all this whole Christianity thing could be considered the biggest scam of all time .... I said "Could Be"

*sinfuldragon* · 02-10-2007, 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leelover

Ok, I understand where you are coming from. But...
What is wrong with someone/anyone explaining WHY they believe what they do. And exactly what they believe for that matter.

Such as: Where do you and the Tigger get your concept of hell and why are you going to end up there?

Nothing is wrong with that at all. If you want to tell me why YOU believe then I have no problems with that at all. I'll listen to what you have to say, I'll probably even ask a few questions. I start to have a problem when you (I'm using this term loosely so don't take it to heart) start to tell me that I'm wrong for believing what I want. I have no problem with you thinking such things but I don't voice my thoughts in a direct discussion (as to if you are right or wrong) and I expect the same respect in return.

I'll speak for myself and let Tigger explain on his own in the event that we disagree. I was throwing the "going to hell" part in there just to poke fun. For if I believe there is not god it would be silly to believe there is a devil. Like I said from my first post there is nothing saying I'm right in my belief, therefore if I'm wrong, I'll be in hell (according to the bible).

And here is one more log for the fire. Lets bring in the Yin Yang theory. There is no good without evil. In your belief would that indicate that perhaps being here as a disbeliever is part of god's plan to test the true believers and me doing my part in his master plan will buy me my way into heaven????

MR_TiGGer · 02-10-2007, 2:54 PM

WARNING: UNPOPULAR REMARK WARNING!!!

Religion: Discussion of Religion. Heated discussions are expected with this subject matter. If you don't have a thick skin, stay away. If you would like to block posts from this forum

So this God fella .... erm ..... Anyone actually met him?
Anyone? ..... Ever?
Anyone heard from him that wasn't one sandwich short of a picnic??
Ahh so did Jesus actually say he was the "Son of God"?? Even once?

Oh .... I see!

Don't get me wrong, but I personally believe that some fella called Jesus, way back then got sick & tired of this whole roman tyranny thing and talked to people about the "Lets all be nice to each other for a change and see how that works" then promptly got nailed to a tree for it, and this bible stuff was a long long time after all that nasty stuff and a hey presto a religion is born!!

After all religions come and go, a few really get into the public domain and hold their ground .... Scientology anyone?? Ahh well of course you have to be a very rich celebrity with obscene amounts of money to join but it's a religion of sorts.

Don't all get upset, I'm just in one of those moods at the moment, it was horrible on the roads today, sleet, rain, bitterly cold and no heated grips

*sinfuldragon* · 02-10-2007, 3:03 PM

Go on with your bad self

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_TiGGer

WARNING: UNPOPULAR REMARK WARNING!!!

Religion: Discussion of Religion. Heated discussions are expected with this subject matter. If you don't have a thick skin, stay away. If you would like to block posts from this forum

So this God fella .... erm ..... Anyone actually met him?
Anyone? ..... Ever?
Anyone heard from him that wasn't one sandwich short of a picnic??
Ahh so did Jesus actually say he was the "Son of God"?? Even once?

Oh .... I see!

Don't get me wrong, but I personally believe that some fella called Jesus, way back then got sick & tired of this whole roman tyranny thing and talked to people about the "Lets all be nice to each other for a change and see how that works" then promptly got nailed to a tree for it, and this bible stuff was a long long time after all that nasty stuff and a hey presto a religion is born!!

After all religions come and go, a few really get into the public domain and hold their ground .... Scientology anyone?? Ahh well of course you have to be a very rich celebrity with obscene amounts of money to join but it's a religion of sorts.

Don't all get upset, I'm just in one of those moods at the moment, it was horrible on the roads today, sleet, rain, bitterly cold and no heated grips

MR_TiGGer · 02-10-2007, 5:40 PM

Did I mention the savage cross winds direct from Siberia??

leelover · 02-10-2007, 7:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_TiGGer

Considering that God is all knowing, all seeing then he is described as a having a nasty sense of humour for a deity, "It's all yours guys but leave the tree alone"?? Then why have the tree in the garden in the 1st place and not on top of a mountain or even why have the tree at all.
Being all knowing, then the whole thing was a set up from the start, or the actual events are simply fiction written by useless tossers in robes trying to blame women for everything once again.
What a load of bollocks this whole tree thing is

What purpose would it serve for God to create man without giving him free will to make choices about what is important to him? Man would be little more than a robot. And what good would free will be if there are no important choices to make?
Do you think that God would not have known what they would do? His ways are way beyond what our finite minds can explain, no matter how brilliant some may shine.
Blame woman? Yep, Adam tried, but he was held accountable on his own. The woman got her own curses, but also a promise that gave all women a special significance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR_TiGGer

Tongue firmly in cheek on this issue, after all if the bible is to be believed, then who won't go to Hell exactly?? And if just saying sorry is enough then no one will go, or (As I suspected all along) if you're willing to accept that God is a reality and go to church, give all your money away .... to the church then the 'Oh so honest' priests will write you a note.

All in all this whole Christianity thing could be considered the biggest scam of all time .... I said "Could Be"

I understand that you were not being serious about the going to hell thing.
If the Bible is read, it is pretty clear who will and will not go to hell. It has nothing at all to do with with accepting God to be a reality, going to church, give all your money away and getting a priestly note, or saying you are sorry.
What the Bible does say is this: All have sinned, There is no one worthy to enter Heaven on their own merit. God made a sacrifice once and for all in the person commonly known as Jesus Christ. He took the sins of the world upon Himself and He died to cleanse each of us from the penalty of our sins. God raised Him from the dead, and now He rules at the right hand of the Father.
Our part in this is to believe He was who He said He was and did what He claimed to do, we must receive the gift He gave of Himself in your place. We must repent of our sins and live for Him.

Christianity is not the scam. The scam is when people pervert the message of the Gospel for their own end.

leelover · 02-10-2007, 8:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

Nothing is wrong with that at all. If you want to tell me why YOU believe then I have no problems with that at all. I'll listen to what you have to say, I'll probably even ask a few questions. I start to have a problem when you (I'm using this term loosely so don't take it to heart) start to tell me that I'm wrong for believing what I want. I have no problem with you thinking such things but I don't voice my thoughts in a direct discussion (as to if you are right or wrong) and I expect the same respect in return.

I understand what you are saying and take no offense what so ever. I may think or say that someone is wrong in their taking of the Bible out of context or totally missing the mark on what it says all together, but I am not going to pass judgment on you or anybody. Nor am I going to disrespect you. You in particular deserve respect, IMO, because you an opinion on what you believe, or don't believe, and actually seem to be interested in what others think. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

I'll speak for myself and let Tigger explain on his own in the event that we disagree. I was throwing the "going to hell" part in there just to poke fun. For if I believe there is not god it would be silly to believe there is a devil. Like I said from my first post there is nothing saying I'm right in my belief, therefore if I'm wrong, I'll be in hell (according to the bible).

And here is one more log for the fire. Lets bring in the Yin Yang theory. There is no good without evil. In your belief would that indicate that perhaps being here as a disbeliever is part of god's plan to test the true believers and me doing my part in his master plan will buy me my way into heaven????

Please see my last post o ye Scaly One!

leelover · 02-10-2007, 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

WARNING: UNPOPULAR REMARK WARNING!!!

Religion: Discussion of Religion. Heated discussions are expected with this subject matter. If you don't have a thick skin, stay away. If you would like to block posts from this forum
So this God fella .... erm ..... Anyone actually met him?
Anyone? ..... Ever?
Anyone heard from him that wasn't one sandwich short of a picnic??
Ahh so did Jesus actually say he was the "Son of God"?? Even once?

Yes there is a sign on the door.
No, no one alive now has meet God personally...and lived.
Jesus made many statements affirming He was the Messiah. Would you like to go through the New Testament with me and study them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

Oh .... I see!

Don't get me wrong, but I personally believe that some fella called Jesus, way back then got sick & tired of this whole roman tyranny thing and talked to people about the "Lets all be nice to each other for a change and see how that works" then promptly got nailed to a tree for it, and this bible stuff was a long long time after all that nasty stuff and a hey presto a religion is born!!

After all religions come and go, a few really get into the public domain and hold their ground .... Scientology anyone?? Ahh well of course you have to be a very rich celebrity with obscene amounts of money to join but it's a religion of sorts.

Don't all get upset, I'm just in one of those moods at the moment, it was horrible on the roads today, sleet, rain, bitterly cold and no heated grips

I am not gonna get all upset, why would I? Because you are asking the same questions I did? I don't think so...
Regarding your statement of faith, that is ok if you want to believe it, but that is not at all what the Bible teaches.
And Scientology,

Hey I quoted MrTigger, and it now it says it's from Sinful, huh? Wait a minute, are you two actually one entity? Yikes!