[steingar]

http://www.venganza.org/

[A.F.T.C.T.T.G.]

I'm not going to even use a smilely....

What The ****??? As to what purpose do people create **** like this????

[ozthis]

Originally Posted by steingar

Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

I have friends that have a sp. monster decal on the trunk......

this site rules too....
Atheists Online - Atheist T-Shirts, Stickers & Atheism Products - Blasphemy at Low as Hell? prices!

[A.F.T.C.T.T.G.]

Originally Posted by ozthis

I have friends that have a sp. monster decal on the trunk......

this site rules too....
Atheists Online - Atheist T-Shirts, Stickers & Atheism Products - Blasphemy at Low as Hell? prices!

I bet they also believe that Survivor is for real

[analogbear]

Survivor is real. It is an actual television program...

[A.F.T.C.T.T.G.]

Originally Posted by analogbear

Survivor is real. It is an actual television program...

I would like to rephrase... There is a high probability that they believe reality shows are real, that is to say they are filmed with complete spontaneity devoid of any premeditated outcome.

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by A.F.T.C.T.T.G.

I would like to rephrase... There is a high probability that they believe reality shows are real, that is to say they are filmed with complete spontaneity devoid of any premeditated outcome.

[sinfuldragon]

Words can't fully express how stupid this really is

[ozthis]

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

Words can't fully express how stupid this really is

I know...but the same goes for ANY religion thread on a MOTORCYCLE forum.

[sinfuldragon]

True enough

[dattaway]

Let me tell you how stupid it is. I grew up here in Kansas City. In high school we learned calculus, physics, biology, and all kinds of utility stuff.

Now they are lucky enough to make it out knowing simple things like basic fractions. A neighbor is a teacher in the public schools. She tells me how bad it is. No support from administration and parents for the skills we grew up with. No one wants to learn that anymore. The stress from No Child Left Behind was too much. Its like they want entertainment. Sex, drugs, and rap. The answer to all this? Put God back in the schools. And get rid of the sciences. Its been a few years. The gangs are starting to take over.

[JeepinJeff]

Originally Posted by dattaway

Let me tell you how stupid it is. I grew up here in Kansas City. In high school we learned calculus, physics, biology, and all kinds of utility stuff.

Now they are lucky enough to make it out knowing simple things like basic fractions. A neighbor is a teacher in the public schools. She tells me how bad it is. No support from administration and parents for the skills we grew up with. No one wants to learn that anymore. The stress from No Child Left Behind was too much. Its like they want entertainment. Sex, drugs, and rap. The answer to all this? Put God back in the schools. And get rid of the sciences. Its been a few years. The gangs are starting to take over.

You and I are the same age. I, too, took classes in high school on physics, biology, chemistry, calculus, COBOL, FORTRAN, geometry, and others. In our day we couldn't use calculators at our desks and now they probably allow laptops in some classes. I've used basically none of those teachings in the real world and now we all rely on computers to do much of our work for us.
I guess my point is that I've always thought most of high school should be more of a college prep, not too much in depth learning of high level thought processes or skills. If people choose to continue their education, then they can take those classes.

[JeepinJeff]

And one more thing, my dad used to be part of the "Church of Monday Night Football" He had a card he kept in his wallet that said so. So don't be knockin that spagetti monster!

[dattaway]

I'm all for The Church of Sportbikes. Riding will be observed on Sundays. All day. In fact, I'm quite religious. I ride every day.

I need to study the tax exempt status of religion. I believe.

[sinfuldragon]

Originally Posted by dattaway

Let me tell you how stupid it is. I grew up here in Kansas City. In high school we learned calculus, physics, biology, and all kinds of utility stuff.

Now they are lucky enough to make it out knowing simple things like basic fractions. A neighbor is a teacher in the public schools. She tells me how bad it is. No support from administration and parents for the skills we grew up with. No one wants to learn that anymore. The stress from No Child Left Behind was too much. Its like they want entertainment. Sex, drugs, and rap. The answer to all this? Put God back in the schools. And get rid of the sciences. Its been a few years. The gangs are starting to take over.

Put God back in school huh... exactly how is this going to fix the parents that don't discipline their kids, don't MAKE them do their homework. Lets not look to the kids or the teachers, lets look at the parents who allow their kids to be ****ups. God in school... nothing to do with it. Your ass being shredded at home now thats what will get those little ****ers to straighten up.

[JeepinJeff]

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

Put God back in school huh... exactly how is this going to fix the parents that don't discipline their kids, don't MAKE them do their homework. Lets not look to the kids or the teachers, lets look at the parents who allow their kids to be ****ups. God in school... nothing to do with it. Your ass being shredded at home now thats what will get those little ****ers to straighten up.

Couldn't agree more. There's way too much focus on what the school is or is not doing. After the kid comes home and mom and/or dad allows the kids to sit around, eat ho-hos and play their new PS3 all night long, what do you expect? Then the kids get older and are given cars and allowed to stay out all night with their friends with little to no supervision. And then it's the teachers fault they didn't receive a better education?

[analogbear]

The major problem is not with schools, kids, gods, or gangs. The problem is parents who never learned the value of education because their parents never learned the value of education because their parents never learned the value of taking part in our society at a level where an education was necessary. A few generations ago, what was a "good job" was one with a decent salary, some good benefits (a pension, good time-off, paid vacations, maybe, but not healthcare--though when the companies that went under [Pan AM comes to mind]had no requirement to pay their retired employees anymore, but the CEO and BOD still got their golden parachutes I think the gov't missed the fairness in business boat) and a chance to be career-level with little or no education. Now, a college degree at the Baccalaureate level is like the HS diploma of 20 years ago...Without some level of general education or specialized training, or at least gobs of experience produced during the exploitation of a great opportunity (starting out as a secretary or assistant at a network, and moving up into the role as a producer, maybe, or starting out as a computer tech, but moving up to head IT) people can't get ahead. And with pooor and poorly educated and assimilation-resistant folks, you get paople who not only have difficulty getting educated or "ahead" in life, they have a very hard time seeing the value in it...None of their models: family, role, career, or heroes, have utilized the opportunities available, and many of those opportunities are either hidden now, or seen as a lie or a trap.

[A.F.T.C.T.T.G.]

Originally Posted by analogbear

Do I detect a chuckle.... My, my, how far I must have progressed!?!

[A.F.T.C.T.T.G.]

Originally Posted by dattaway

I'm all for The Church of Sportbikes. Riding will be observed on Sundays. All day. In fact, I'm quite religious. I ride every day.

I need to study the tax exempt status of religion. I believe.

I would like to start the Church of Do Whatever You What As Long As You Don't Harm Anyone In Anyway Whatsoever. Wouldn't that make of a cool acronym:

C.o.D.W.Y.W.A.L.A.Y.D.H.A.I.A.W

[MisterMohawk]

Originally Posted by analogbear

The major problem is not with schools, kids, gods, or gangs. The problem is parents who never learned the value of education because their parents never learned the value of education because their parents never learned the value of taking part in our society at a level where an education was necessary. A few generations ago, what was a "good job" was one with a decent salary, some good benefits (a pension, good time-off, paid vacations, maybe, but not healthcare--though when the companies that went under [Pan AM comes to mind]had no requirement to pay their retired employees anymore, but the CEO and BOD still got their golden parachutes I think the gov't missed the fairness in business boat) and a chance to be career-level with little or no education. Now, a college degree at the Baccalaureate level is like the HS diploma of 20 years ago...Without some level of general education or specialized training, or at least gobs of experience produced during the exploitation of a great opportunity (starting out as a secretary or assistant at a network, and moving up into the role as a producer, maybe, or starting out as a computer tech, but moving up to head IT) people can't get ahead. And with pooor and poorly educated and assimilation-resistant folks, you get paople who not only have difficulty getting educated or "ahead" in life, they have a very hard time seeing the value in it...None of their models: family, role, career, or heroes, have utilized the opportunities available, and many of those opportunities are either hidden now, or seen as a lie or a trap.

What about us dumb construction workers (heavy equipment operator, in my case) who, though brought up with parents who valued education and advocated forward-thinking action still chose to quit college and do something we enjoy, namely physical work outdoors? Doesn't hurt that I'm paid quite well, though.

[sinfuldragon]

Originally Posted by MisterMohawk

What about us dumb construction workers (heavy equipment operator, in my case) who, though brought up with parents who valued education and advocated forward-thinking action still chose to quit college and do something we enjoy, namely physical work outdoors? Doesn't hurt that I'm paid quite well, though.

I personally don't see any problem in this at all. My parents were all about education but I dropped out of HS too. I now work in an IT field and have exchanged years in school for certifications. This is just what I like to do, only got the certs to get the pay increase. If you are doing what you enjoy then there is no shame or harm in that. Its when the kid is stupid and the parents blame it all on the school that is also pumping out smart kids that CHOOSE to learn thats the problem

[dattaway]

Originally Posted by MisterMohawk

What about us dumb construction workers (heavy equipment operator, in my case) who, though brought up with parents who valued education and advocated forward-thinking action still chose to quit college and do something we enjoy, namely physical work outdoors? Doesn't hurt that I'm paid quite well, though.

Sounds like me. I have a BSEE, but I repair forklifts. Now I have an eye for braindead fleets of machines that we buy, because the engineers who designed them couldn't see the whole picture. Not to mention equipment where the engineer stole the reference design from their supplier and copied it. Their amazing catastrophes of mistakes are my overtime.

[longbreakdown]

[slorider18]

Originally Posted by MisterMohawk

What about us dumb construction workers (heavy equipment operator, in my case) who, though brought up with parents who valued education and advocated forward-thinking action still chose to quit college and do something we enjoy, namely physical work outdoors? Doesn't hurt that I'm paid quite well, though.

I think Abear was refering to those that claim they are being "held down" rather than some one who is perfectly happy where they are. We can't all be doctors because we need someone to build the hospital. There are just a lot of people who want shiny nice new things but don't work towards getting them, they just complain that they are being oppressed. i have a decent job, but i would like more for my family (and it's outrageously expensive to live out here) so i am looking at a career switch right now, and still working toward my BS. if what you do provides security to for the family then my hat is off to you..

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by MisterMohawk

What about us dumb construction workers (heavy equipment operator, in my case) who, though brought up with parents who valued education and advocated forward-thinking action still chose to quit college and do something we enjoy, namely physical work outdoors? Doesn't hurt that I'm paid quite well, though.

My youngest brother is an apprentice carpenter(doing rough-in construction, now), the middle bro is a bio-chemical engineer (I don't even know what that means), and I, of course, am a drunkard, sir.

I have no problem with the choice of a "trade," instead of academic education, which should have been plain from my use of the phrases: "specialized training" and "gobs of experience." There is no way I could have listed all the non-academic careers and training available, so I chose a couple of easy ones to relate to...Sorry for leaving you out, I did not intend to offend.

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

Its when the kid is stupid and the parents blame it all on the school that is also pumping out smart kids that CHOOSE to learn thats the problem

That may hold true for some schools/neighborhoods, but often near my place, we have these schools with shared 20-year old textbooks, an 80% drop-out rate, and no reason to assume that the kids are smarter or stupider than the nat'l average...Choice assumes some informed knowledge of the possible selections. That's what I was trying to say: A lot of these kids don't know what having education really means,have no experience taking advantage of opportunities(if they even have or know about them), and get no modeling-help from their folks.

Originally Posted by slorider18

I think Abear was refering to those that claim they are being "held down" rather than some one who is perfectly happy where they are. We can't all be doctors because we need someone to build the hospital. There are just a lot of people who want shiny nice new things but don't work towards getting them, they just complain that they are being oppressed.

There are a lot of roles in society to fill (and if one is to believe the social philosopher Durkheim, we even need criminals...).

I was also referring to those who remain perfectly happy (or unhappy like you mention) and ignorant of the academic or specialized-training alternatives for improving social position, while spending their little available monies on luxury items instead of improvement, independence, education; and, then they breed, and try to raise new little humans within a flawed paradigm...

If a person was raised in publicly subsidized housing (the projects, say), paid by welfare (alone a disturbing issue because sometimes they can get more actual income than a minimum wage job, all without working a second of any day), and then that person has kids who move into their own publicly subsidized housing and get paid through public assistance, you have established an anti-civic and anti-social pattern of poverty that is so hard to overcome, even comedians say the only way out of the 'hood is to play basketball, play football, Rap, or sell drugs...No mention of an education, any experiential career development, or even an aspiration to enjoy any of the American dream...

Now, I am not some bleeding-heart guy, but I do see that psychological effect of multi-generational poverty being a bar to even the awareness of some "traditional" paths...

[sinfuldragon]

Originally Posted by analogbear

There are a lot of roles in society to fill (and if one is to believe the social philosopher Durkheim, we even need criminals...).

for without yin there is no yang

Originally Posted by analogbear

If a person was raised in publicly subsidized housing (the projects, say), paid by welfare (alone a disturbing issue because sometimes they can get more actual income than a minimum wage job, all without working a second of any day),

Holy crap lets not even dive into this freaking disaster.

Originally Posted by analogbear

and then that person has kids who move into their own publicly subsidized housing and get paid through public assistance, you have established an anti-civic and anti-social pattern of poverty that is so hard to overcome, even comedians say the only way out of the 'hood is to play basketball, play football, Rap, or sell drugs...No mention of an education, any experiential career development, or even an aspiration to enjoy any of the American dream...

Is that to say that if you grow up in the projects and your parents are worthless that you are destine to be a worthless welfare junkie as well (by welfare junkie I mean just that. someone not trying to better themselves perfectly happy to live off of the government and if that offends someone oh ****in well we all know you won't get off your fat ass to do anything about it)

[sinfuldragon]

scratch that last part, I overlooked the "that is so hard to overcome" part, implying that it can be done if you put your mind to it

[leelover]

things get ugly when you bring up that flying spaghetti monster!

Whups! I don't know if it's ok with ABear that I talk about the FSM!

[analogbear]

Originally Posted by sinfuldragon

Is that to say that if you grow up in the projects and your parents are worthless that you are destine[d] to be a worthless welfare junkie as well [?]

Absolutely not!

It just is harder NOT to become one, for the children of each successive generation that is a worthless welfare junky; because, to break out of that particular cycle, you have to go against: family history, family values, local models, many aspects of pop-culture (the hip-hop sub-culture, with its counter-culture message, and particulary the anti-establishment/ crime is a necessity delivered through the rythmic poetry of rap, that comes to mind --which is not to say I can't dig some of it...I like to kick it old-school every once and a while with some Cyprus Hill, EPMD, BDP, and Eric B and Rakim to go with my Rock) and every bully in your neighborhood...