[pladecalvo]

It's frightening to think that there are people in this world working hard to bring about 'the end of the world'.

From thinkprogress.org — McCain friend and spiritual advisor, Rev. John Hagee says: "The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfil God ’s plan for both Israel and the West… a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ."

[denzee]

Don't tell me your a Lib also plade. It's all fitting together now. In response to what you're saying, regardless of who said it, I'm concerned about Iran too. Anybody with a brain should be concerned. Options may even, yes, include a pre-emptive strike and it wouldn't be the end of the World either. The Rapture stuff is crap!
Sounds like you're trying to get anothe Jeremiah Wright thing going. Good Luck!

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by denzee

Don't tell me your a Lib also plade. It's all fitting together now.

No! It was just something I came across in a moment of boredom. I was referring to the 'rapture' business not the politics.

[Grover130]

Well, if the world's going to end soon, I'd better get the bike out for a few last rides!

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by Grover130

Well, if the world's going to end soon, I'd better get the bike out for a few last rides!

Don't waste time with the polish....might not be worth it!

[FTP_929]

if the world was going to end soon....id get on my bike and start the biggest high speed chase ever...then knowing my luck,the world wouldn't end and id be in jail for about 80 years

[steingar]

Iran is a problem created by and scaremongered for the Bush administration. He castigated the nation, grouping in with his axis of evil. He then invaded their neighbor. And we wonder why they feel so strongly that they need nuclear weapons.

[denzee]

Iran is Bush's fault too! Interesting...

[hondaseller]

we must all we can to prevent zurg and the konan armada from dominating the universe....last starfighter where are you!!!!!

[Surffrog]

I think the whole approach to get other countries to fall in line has been wrong. Although we appear to be trying other methods, they still smack of the *Crusades, when there's the continuing threat of a pre-emptive strike hanging over the negotiation table.

*one reason why the West has a problem with the Muslim nations today

Just because the answers don't come easily to hand shouldn't mean we immediately resort to violence - that should ALWAYS be the last action. Pre-emptive strikes... that works great when dealing with cancer but not countries.

I'm not a pacifist but nor am I a warmonger. Whether we like it or not, believe in the second coming or consider ourselves atheists, we are going to have to find ways for peaceful existence. Why? Because the alternatives haven't worked too well so far, have they?

By saying there are people working hard to bring an end to this world is just plain stupid (with the exception of the odd lone nutter), when the truth of the matter is they are working hard to change what they see as wrong, which may include who they want to see running the world.

I'm not saying their methods are any better, but if one side doesn't start using alternative methods of negotiation the situation can only worsen. Israel should rein its neck in. It's probably carried out more "pre-emptive strikes" than any other country and yet it still hasn't made the situation any better, has it?

[fastdreams]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

It's frightening to think that there are people in this world working hard to bring about 'the end of the world'.

From thinkprogress.org — McCain friend and spiritual advisor, Rev. John Hagee says: "The United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfil God ’s plan for both Israel and the West… a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ."

Wow. Rev. John Hagee is a war monger, using God's name. I have to wonder if Jesus would have approved ? Creating enemies and doing our best to kill them all? Somehow I doubt that is the way.

If you believe in scripture, then it is clear that there is no need to usher anything, or try to force any prophecy.

People that predict the time are wrong...

Matt. 25:13 – Jesus says “watch therefore, and be prepared, for you know neither the day nor the hour.”
Mark 13:35-37 – Jesus says “watch because you do not know when the Master of the House will come - watch!”
Luke 12:46 - the Master will come on a day and at an hour when He is not expected.
Acts 1:7 - Jesus says it is not for us to know the times or seasons which the Father has fixed by His own authority.

The end is not necessarily the end of the world. Supposedly it will be years of war and death and suffering, but the world will spin on.

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by fastdreams

The end is not necessarily the end of the world. Supposedly it will be years of war and death and suffering, but the world will spin on.

How does that differ from the past??

[fastdreams]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

How does that differ from the past??

Good point! hah. Well...something like 2/3 the population will be killed, and the suffering will be everywhere, rather than just in a hot spot.

Or...it's a bunch of crap and the Flying Spaghetti Monster will save us all.

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by fastdreams

........the Flying Spaghetti Monster will save us all.

Praise His noodlyness!

[dr256]

Originally Posted by Surffrog

Pre-emptive strikes... that works great when dealing with cancer but not countries.

[denzee]

A precision strike on for example, Iran if they assembled a nuclear reactor. That would be a needed preemtive strike. Correct?

[WyoJames]

[dr256]

Where's my Richard the Lionheart suit???

[denzee]

Better that than a Neville Chamberlain. Sorry, not part of the weenie club here.

[dr256]

Sorry Denzee - I'd rather be with Neville than Adolf!!!

[denzee]

Oh so now I'm Adolf? Cool, how did that neat trick happen? That kind of thinking scares me dr.

[denzee]

Sidenote dr. I'm driving my wife and her parents to the airport this afternoon and they are flying to Heathrow and then on to Chelmsford where my sister in law lives. My mother in law is a war bride and from the eastend in London, Hackney Rd. Been there several times myself. Are you familar with these areas? Just wondered. Beautiful Country!

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by denzee

A precision strike on for example, Iran if they assembled a nuclear reactor. That would be a needed preemtive strike. Correct?

Look, many leaders of weaker nations talk up their abilities and try show to their public that they are not afraid of the US. Right now is as good a time as any for brinkmanship because the US forces are spread pretty thin. Hugo Chavez talks all the time but nobody pays him any mind because he's a mindless jerk whose only action is to do the complete opposite to whatever the US is doing/saying at the time. Even his people think that, so nobody even thinks of him as a threat. Hence no preemptive strike on Venezuela.

North Korea has Kim Jong Il who is on his last legs, and although he's just kicked out the UN nuclear inspectors and threatened missile strikes on the US as recently as this week, it is highly unlikely they are going to do anything until they've determined who the hell North Korea is after Kim Jong II has died.

I could be wrong, but I predict that the North Koreans are tired of being out in the cold, especially when South Korea has proven far more successful by working with the system. I see no value in a preemptive strike on a country where just 0.5% (if that) has any money. North Koreans are always trying to get into the South at great risk to their lives because they have absolutely nothing and no hope in sight. If there is to be a preemptive strike on North Korea, I suggest you arm the aircraft with food.

Iranians actually don't dislike the American way of life; many love the same things. The real problem there is that you have (much like North Korea) a leader (Ahmadinejad) who has openly, as far as the west can see, put themselves first at the cost of everyone else. Ahmadinejad is an idiot and even his own government wonder what the hell he's doing. But he's making all this noise because he's scared. The US military is on his door step and the only way he knows to slow down the march into Iran is by stating their intention to build nuclear reactors.

I could be wrong, but I believe if the US military were to back off you'd hear far less about new countries threatens to build nuclear reactors or weapons.

I suggest preemptively striking up conversations first...

[dr256]

Originally Posted by denzee

Oh so now I'm Adolf? Cool, how did that neat trick happen? That kind of thinking scares me dr.

Sorry Denzee, this isn't a personal attack and apologies if it reads that way...it surely wasn't meant to...anyway

I think Surfrog has made the point very well above, that if you back a rat into a corner it has no choice to come out and bite your ankles. And the west is doing a lot of backing smaller nations into corners at the moment and in the recent past....it would just be nice if, for a change, we could take all our collective noses out of everyone else business and offer olive branches and helping hands instead.....I know I know I'm dreaming, but i still gets my goat when everyone is way too busy escalating issues rather than solving them....

Yes I know Chelmsford and yes for my sins Hackney too...although I'd rather to go the the former than the latter

[Surffrog]

Wait for it, Dr. The inevitable flak is coming whether we like it or not

[denzee]

Hey come on Surf. No flak from me. North Korea is a different matter. They'll do what they want and there's really nothing anyone can do (regardless of what some may think). They have a huge military. Iran and North Korea are the same in the sense that they both have Nuclear ambitions and a nut bar at the helm. The difference is Ahmadinejad would use his neclear weapon if he aquired it but I don't believe Kim Jong Il would (hope your spelling is correct surf). He just likes the threat like you said.
Having dialog for a diplomatic solution is always good and a necessary part of maintaining peace. If nothing else it shows a willingness. However, North Korea has broken many treaties and agreements in the past and I don't believe Ahmadinejad would be any different.
As far as the US backing off on Iran goes, they must maintain the pressure. Showing weakness is what Iran wants. Other than sanctions, they aren't doing a whole lot that I'm aware of. Israel just sits there quietly with many warheads pointing to Iran you can bet. Ahmadinejad has to realize striking Israel is not survivable. The question is, does he care?

Hey dr. if we are going to be characters from history I'd say I was Churchill, you and surf are Chamberlain and Ahmadinejad is Hitler.

PS: The gang is now in Chelmsford. The 8hr. flight went well.

[MCR001]

Im lost for words.
I can only imagine the rednecks are going to be worked up with this type of talk and they will be in a killing frenzy.

[denzee]

Originally Posted by MCR001

Im lost for words.
I can only imagine the rednecks are going to be worked up with this type of talk and they will be in a killing frenzy.

Could you please explain this MCR? I'd love to hear what this is suppose to mean.

[DragonRider]

Why do we have to be Rednecks man!! WTF!!