[dr256]

You cannot prove that God exists.
You cannot prove the God does not exist.

Here endeth the lesson!

[ghbzorro]

Thank you for wasting 4 seconds of my life

[standeasy1]

No but wankers do.....check the mirror!!!

[ghbzorro]

Originally Posted by standeasy1

No but wankers do.....check the mirror!!!

?? ??

[dr256]

Originally Posted by ghbzorro

Thank you for wasting 4 seconds of my life

Which is kinda the point - nearly every thread in this forum boils down the the inevitable conclusion that you either believe, or you don't. Given that my first post is the only truth available on the subject I wonder if there's any point having the debate?

And it's what gets my goat, why do those who believe spend so much time worrying about those who don't. Why can't they just realise that Religion, as it's practised on earth is just a form of control. A set of rules to keep you in order and make you scared or fearful that you'll be punished if you step out of line...

...to cut to the point I'm just sick of hearing the endless bull spouted "in the name of...insert your chosen deity here"

If god has something to say, then the big idiot should get off its glory filled backside and say it. Everything else is the word of man (and usually it is men) and therefore conjecture and entirely subjective.

[dr256]

Originally Posted by standeasy1

No but wankers do.....check the mirror!!!

not sure if this is aimed at me or the previous poster? but if you are asking have i masturbated in front of a mirror before, the answer, as we are trying to only deal in facts today, is yes.

So, anyone else ready for confession???

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by dr256

You cannot prove the God does not exist.

Ummmm! Lemee see!
Bhagavantaru, the Chenchu god of thunder and rain that dwells in the sky: Thanks to science we know that thunder and rain are caused by movements of the atmosphere. These movements can be tracked and thunder and rain can be predicted hours or even days before they occur. Clearly, there is no god living in the sky causing thunder and rain. The non-existence of Bhagavantaru is proven.

Nannar (the moon), a Sumerian god that traverses the sky in his crescent shaped boat: Thanks to science we know that the crescent appearance of the moon is caused by the Earth’s shadow. The moon is a big rock, not a god. The non-existence of Nannar is proven.

Re, (the sun), the Egyptian god that traversed the sky in a boat and had to avoid being eaten each night by a serpent: Thanks to science, we know that the sun is a large ball of burning gas. It is in no danger of being eaten by a serpent, and burns as brightly at night as by day depending upon one’s location on the Earth. The non-existence of Re is proven.

Zeus, the king of the Greek gods that lived on the top of Mt. Olympus: Thanks to science (and anyone who has ever taken the hike), we know that no gods live on the top of Mt. Olympus. The non-existence of Zeus is proven.

Yaweh/Jehova, the gods of the Jewish, Christian religions created a flat Earth with an orbiting sun approximately 6000 years ago--Thanks to science, we know that the Earth is round and about 4.5 billion years old, and that it orbits the sun. Yaweh/Jehova do not exist.


You could go on and on eliminating gods, but I think that you get the point. One by one, systematically, gods are eliminated by science (and dare I say, common sense?). As man accumulates more knowledge about his world, the gods fall away. Modern believers smugly disregard the false gods of the past, blissfully unaware that their god is no different.

[dr256]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Zeus, the king of the Greek gods that lived on the top of Mt. Olympus: Thanks to science (and anyone who has ever taken the hike), we know that no gods live on the top of Mt. Olympus. The non-existence of Zeus is proven.

Zeus disproved by the invention of hiking boots - that's funny

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

You could go on and on eliminating gods, but I think that you get the point. One by one, systematically, gods are eliminated by science (and dare I say, common sense?). As man accumulates more knowledge about his world, the gods fall away. Modern believers smugly disregard the false gods of the past, blissfully unaware that their god is no different.

Agree.

[denzee]

Listen to plade talking dr. Who's trying to convince who??? I agree with your first assertion in this thread. As long as you guys are convinced, that's fine. It doesn't much matter to me. Likely nobody will change their minds on this forum anyways.

[WyoJames]

Originally Posted by dr256

nearly every thread in this forum boils down the the inevitable conclusion that you either believe, or you don't.

um, if by nearly every thread, you mean nearly every thread that you create. Last time I checked, slipper clutches, what gear we wear, and engine rattle have nothing to do with whether or not we believe

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by denzee

Likely nobody will change their minds on this forum anyways.

Stranger things have happened!

[ldavis]

i'm just here for the free beer..

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Ummmm! Lemee see!
Bhagavantaru, the Chenchu god of thunder and rain that dwells in the sky: Thanks to science we know that thunder and rain are caused by movements of the atmosphere. These movements can be tracked and thunder and rain can be predicted hours or even days before they occur. Clearly, there is no god living in the sky causing thunder and rain. The non-existence of Bhagavantaru is proven.

Nannar (the moon), a Sumerian god that traverses the sky in his crescent shaped boat: Thanks to science we know that the crescent appearance of the moon is caused by the Earth’s shadow. The moon is a big rock, not a god. The non-existence of Nannar is proven.

Re, (the sun), the Egyptian god that traversed the sky in a boat and had to avoid being eaten each night by a serpent: Thanks to science, we know that the sun is a large ball of burning gas. It is in no danger of being eaten by a serpent, and burns as brightly at night as by day depending upon one’s location on the Earth. The non-existence of Re is proven.

Zeus, the king of the Greek gods that lived on the top of Mt. Olympus: Thanks to science (and anyone who has ever taken the hike), we know that no gods live on the top of Mt. Olympus. The non-existence of Zeus is proven.

Yaweh/Jehova, the gods of the Jewish, Christian religions created a flat Earth with an orbiting sun approximately 6000 years ago--Thanks to science, we know that the Earth is round and about 4.5 billion years old, and that it orbits the sun. Yaweh/Jehova do not exist.


You could go on and on eliminating gods, but I think that you get the point. One by one, systematically, gods are eliminated by science (and dare I say, common sense?). As man accumulates more knowledge about his world, the gods fall away. Modern believers smugly disregard the false gods of the past, blissfully unaware that their god is no different.

And could this be the reason the church spared scientists lives as long as they promised to leave the subject of religion alone?

[dr256]

Originally Posted by WyoJames

um, if by nearly every thread, you mean nearly every thread that you create. Last time I checked, slipper clutches, what gear we wear, and engine rattle have nothing to do with whether or not we believe

I do believe in slipper clutches.
I do not believe in engine rattle, according to the holy book of Honda it doesn't exist and is just your teeth shaking in fear of our lord Baba.

Obviously I was referring to the threads within the "religion' section, but I apologies to any god fearing literal types who believe everything they read as sacrosanct.

[Surffrog]

Originally Posted by dr256

I do believe in slipper clutches.
I do not believe in engine rattle, according to the holy book of Honda it doesn't exist and is just your teeth shaking in fear of our lord Baba.

Obviously I was referring to the threads within the "religion' section, but I apologies to any god fearing literal types who believe everything they read as sacrosanct.

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Ummmm! Lemee see!
Bhagavantaru, the Chenchu god of thunder and rain that dwells in the sky: Thanks to science we know that thunder and rain are caused by movements of the atmosphere. These movements can be tracked and thunder and rain can be predicted hours or even days before they occur. Clearly, there is no god living in the sky causing thunder and rain. The non-existence of Bhagavantaru is proven.

You havent proved that he doesnt exist or doesnt cause rain.
You just have a more believable explaination.

"PROVE" as in 100% certain is not possible.
Prove as in, nearly unanimous agreement from experts - then yes.

[pladecalvo]

That's a valid comment dicknose! It was only supposed to be 'tongue in cheek' anyway.

[dr256]

Originally Posted by dicknose

You havent proved that he doesnt exist or doesnt cause rain.
You just have a more believable explaination.

"PROVE" as in 100% certain is not possible.
Prove as in, nearly unanimous agreement from experts - then yes.

I would say here unanimous agreement from experts that there is no God living in the sky causing the rain, wouldn't you?

I also think we can say with 100% certainly that it is not possible that such a God exists, especially as the entire atmosphere is scanned 24/7 by weather satellites, observation satellites, military listening satellites....we can prove there is no God causing the rain because we can prove that rain is caused by precipitation.

An its the easy escape for those with bind faith to say...ahhh but he can't be seen, or detected but he is there...rubbish there is no God in the Sky!!!

[Hyperboreean]

Originally Posted by dr256

I would say here unanimous agreement from experts that there is no God living in the sky causing the rain, wouldn't you?

I also think we can say with 100% certainly that it is not possible that such a God exists, especially as the entire atmosphere is scanned 24/7 by weather satellites, observation satellites, military listening satellites....we can prove there is no God causing the rain because we can prove that rain is caused by precipitation.

An its the easy escape for those with bind faith to say...ahhh but he can't be seen, or detected but he is there...rubbish there is no God in the Sky!!!

The unGodly science teaches us that it is IMPOSSIBLE to prove a negative.

Negative proof - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Argument from ignorance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by dr256

I would say here unanimous agreement from experts that there is no God living in the sky causing the rain, wouldn't you?

I also think we can say with 100% certainly that it is not possible that such a God exists

Hell no!!

A god powerful enough to cause rain is also powerful enough to avoid detection.

You might be 100% certain - but really you would have to admit that there is a slim chance the rain could be controlled in some way we dont notice. Be it aliens or god.. it could be controlled via some technology (or magic!) beyond us.
Now Id say its a very slim possibility, but there is very little we can say is 100.000000% sure!

And thats the thing with science - you dont need to have the philosophical argument of this sort of "proof" or "certainty" - you just go with the theory that is the best. Throw in a healthy amount of Ocam's Razor and the ability to predict and you have good science.
And yes Ocam's Razor is important. Because for any simply theory you can have someone else could give the same result using a complicated and non-deterministic system - like a god!
Also prediction is good. A system without prediction (especially one using a powerful intelligence behind it) can just adapt to any new result with "thats how the powerful intelligence wanted it to happen"

In the end science basically has the aim of removing "gods" from the explainations of how things work. Any use of god to explain something must end up looking like bad science. So far science has done a pretty good job at removing any micro-managing by a god.

[dr256]

It's a valid point Dicknose.
But if there is such a God controlling the rain then its a bloody busy little git, I live in the UK and its been raining like hell here all year. And we should get together to find and destroy it because its evidently not pro motorbikes!

But as you say - "All things being equal," precipitation is the simplest and is without assumption so most likely, almost definitely, and with the slimmest tiniest possible chance of being wrong, the real cause and reason for rain!

Rain is a good example really. Because we essentially know what causes rain. So to say we have to keep the door open to the possibility that there is in fact another theory thats incredibly complex and impossible to quantify is somewhat frustrating. And kinda where I started on this thread.

[denzee]

Round and round we go. Do I hear you suggesting dr there is a possibilty?

[pladecalvo]

Of course there's a "possibility" denzee....it's on the same level as the "possibility" that the FSM or leprechauns exist!

[jhonda41]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Of course there's a "possibility" denzee....it's on the same level as the "possibility" that the FSM or leprechauns exist!

Spaghetti monsters aside... the motorcycling gods (yes, I have proof of their existence) have punished the North Americans with Harleys and other horrible motorcycle options.

[denzee]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Of course there's a "possibility" denzee....it's on the same level as the "possibility" that the FSM or leprechauns exist!

Excuse me plade, is your name dr? Besides, your examples are hardly possibilities and are not on the same level. Maybe in your mind.

[denzee]

Originally Posted by jhonda41

Spaghetti monsters aside... the motorcycling gods (yes, I have proof of their existence) have punished the North Americans with Harleys and other horrible motorcycle options.

Sounds more like the motorcycle DEVIL.

[dr256]

Originally Posted by denzee

Round and round we go. Do I hear you suggesting dr there is a possibilty?

Indeed - and it's sorta where i wanted to go with this thread. Currently everything is possible. Currently we have no way of proving or disproving God. Hyperboreean has already shown us links to the negative proof fallacy. Plade shows us that eventually most Gods go by the wayside. Others continue to show there faith.

So we sorta have a stalemate.
And I guess all I'm saying is I'd like to have proof either way.

Really I'll admit this thread is a dead end a really just my frustration at the way some aspects of religion pervade our society. And the fact that's it very difficult to have a discussion without it being based on whether you have or don't have faith.

[pladecalvo]

Originally Posted by denzee

Excuse me plade, is your name dr?

Ooooooh! Mind all that stuff doesn't fall out of your handbag whilst your swinging it around your head!!

This is a public forum where anyone can answer to anything. If you want private discussion, the option of 'Private Messaging' is available.

Besides, your examples are hardly possibilities and are not on the same level.

Please explain why not...and why you think that your invisible supernatural entity is valid and other invisible supernatural entities are not

[denzee]

Originally Posted by pladecalvo

Ooooooh! Mind all that stuff doesn't fall out of your handbag whilst your swinging it around your head!!

This is a public forum where anyone can answer to anything. If you want private discussion, the option of 'Private Messaging' is available.

Please explain why not...and why you think that your invisible supernatural entity is valid and other invisible supernatural entities are not

You're getting mad at me agian plade. If I have to explain why the question was directed at dr then you're not reading the previous post properly. Far be it from me to suggest you don't answer a question just because it wasn't directed at you.

I wasn't aware the FSM and leprechauns came with a bible dating back thousands of years.

[dr256]

Intoducing naked Jello Wrestling.

On my left and in the Jesus trunks, raise your hands for Denzee...
On my right and naked, he doesn't believe in trunks raise your hands for Pladecalvo...

Ding Ding Round One