JR Phoenix jacket aftermath

G-Force Junkie · 07-31-2003, 12:21 AM

http://pub105.ezboard.com/fhondac....0.topic

Not for weak stomachs. Not much protection in that mesh.

Joel · 07-31-2003, 12:28 AM

2OHOH2 · 07-31-2003, 12:39 AM

The guy was under a vehicle, under an engine block, and suffered burns accordingly. How often does that happen with the rider surviving at all? Of course leather would've been better, but what about the many riders that wear that instead of nothing, or the ones that wear leather in dangerously hot conditions, whose reactions and judgement are impaired by the additional heat brought on by wearing 'safer' leather?

We know that you don't like mesh jackets GFJ, but nevertheless, for some people it's the only viable, somewhat safe option, besides not riding at all.

I, for one, haven't worn my Phoenix once this year, not surprisingly finding that the 8X more expensive Vanson CSRV is adequately ventilated and without a doubt better protection. Many don't have that option, for any of a number of possible reasons.

Bacchus · 07-31-2003, 12:43 AM

Jeez, I have that very jacket, but I only wear it for around town jaunts (read: < 45mph). For the longer, spirited rides it's nothing but leather baby.

lfg929 · 07-31-2003, 12:47 AM

I know a couple of people who are looking at the mesh jackets right now and have asked my opinion. I told them that if they would wear that rather than wear nothing then buy it, however, if it were my skin I wouldn't be caught in one of those jackets. I would rather wear a leather jacket that was a little hot sitting at the lights. I have a Vanson that is perforated and it gets stinking hot in town, but it isn't so bad once you get moving.

G-Force Junkie · 07-31-2003, 1:15 AM

Quote:

2OHOH2954 : The guy was under a vehicle, under an engine block, and suffered burns accordingly. How often does that happen with the rider surviving at all? Of course leather would've been better, but what about the many riders that wear that instead of nothing, or the ones that wear leather in dangerously hot conditions, whose reactions and judgement are impaired by the additional heat brought on by wearing 'safer' leather?

We know that you don't like mesh jackets GFJ, but nevertheless, for some people it's the only viable, somewhat safe option, besides not riding at all.

I, for one, haven't worn my Phoenix once this year, not surprisingly finding that the 8X more expensive Vanson CSRV is adequately ventilated and without a doubt better protection. Many don't have that option, for any of a number of possible reasons.

I dont follow that forum, just found a link to that post. But he slide into the car on his belly, the rash is from nothing but the asphault, and in the guys own words, the jacket 'blew apart.' I didn't think I had ever voiced an opinion on mesh jackets before Mayby I have, but I totaly agree, its alot better than just a tshirt. Its just after seeing these pics, and personaly seeing 2 Phoenix jackets destroyed after <45 MPH crashes, I hope people dont substitue them for proper gear. And I gotta call On the jacket thing, anyone on a $8-20k sportbike can affort a $300-500 jacket.

Tank69 · 07-31-2003, 1:45 AM

No matter what kind of jacket it is, if it's not at least zipped in to the rear of your pants, it has the chance of 'riding' up your body and exposing your skin to the pavement. As for this 'blew apart' thing, I don't really understand HOW it could. Maybe this guy went down in this jacket before and didn't check it after the fact. Basically, MESH is a ONE TIME USE, especially if there are any rips or tears in the material.

I had my wife sew the zippers into my jeans, so no matter where I go, I can always zip into my pants. I had a small low side in my PHX jacket and not even a tear in the material. I slid a good 25 feet, on pavement and eventually ended up in some rocks. I didn't take any chances and pitched the jacket after thinking $100 really isn't worth it to take another chance with the same jacket.

Here in phoenix, you almost NEVER see anyone in leathers during the summer months. Almost all of my buddies have the PHX jackets and I have the pants and jacket. Even perfed leather sucks in this heat. Anyway, those who bash mesh really don't know the entire history behind every post that reads 'MESH SUCKS, DON'T BUY IT' or something similar. Please, jackets, leather or mesh, just don't 'blow apart', that's BS.

Tank

G-Force Junkie · 07-31-2003, 2:09 AM

Ok, Guess I was seeing things with the 2 that I personaly witness rip open, burn through, and rash the rider under 45 mph

Mattress · 07-31-2003, 2:10 AM

My brother said he's seen the aftermath of a few Phoenix jackets and they just melt on the road and it's all skin after that.

G-Force Junkie · 07-31-2003, 2:12 AM

Oh ya, and ask Crash how is Technic leather 1 piece suite 'blew apart' in a 20 mph crash on the skid pad at Streets of Willow last year. It happens. Probaly a million variables on how you hit the pavement and such, but it happesn, and flimsey gear don't hold up. But its better than a tank top and shorts.

Bacchus · 07-31-2003, 2:14 AM

That does it! I'm getting rid of my Phoenix and wearin' leather no matter what, even in Tucson temps.

luvtolean · 07-31-2003, 3:31 AM

Quote:

Bacchus : * That does it! *I'm getting rid of my Phoenix and wearin' leather no matter what, even in Tucson temps.

YES, OH YES!! Finally, at least one person has seen the light!

ibAdam · 07-31-2003, 3:55 AM

This particular incident shouldn't be held against the mesh jackets. Yes he stats it came apart. But we don't know if he even had the front zipper all the way up either. If he was improperly wearing the jacket in the first place this would cause poor protection of his body. Another note these burns look nothing like slide burns from the road. They look like heat burns from where he was under the engine block. Not a situation most people think of when buying protective gear. Another note. I wear the Joe Rocket jacket and pants. I had a get off on one of my bikes at something like 60mph. The jacket and pants held up awesome! I didn't have a single scratch on me. I inspected the stitching and fabric. It look pretty beat up, but the stitching held up good and the jacket and pants probably could of held up for a second get off at 60mph. I'm not saying that the mesh is better than the leather (I think good leather is better than good mesh) but I think a good mesh is plenty good for almost any street speeds. Triple digits is a whole nother ball game.

NinerPilot · 07-31-2003, 4:20 AM

Sorry Guys,
My 300 lb ass slid a good bit in a Pheonix with no damage to me, but the jacket was toast. I too only wear mine for commuting and around town rides now, but I have no qualms about doing so. I know of at least 2 other people who have tested theirs and had the same results.
Chris

Heavy-Dee · 07-31-2003, 7:53 AM

I have a Phoenix jacket, and b/c the summer here has sucked I have only worn it a couple of times. I wear it knowing that it is not as protective as my JR Speedmaster jacket (hot at lights, but once moving I don't even notice it). As Tank said it is a 'one time use'. Furthermore, I consider it to minimize injury rather than prevent it. If I come out of a crash unrashed while wearing it, great. If not, I'd wager I would still be better off than w/o it.

The dude above slid head first into a stopped car. If I were him I'd be counting my blessings. It sounds to me like he should be dead or a quad.

Chain · 07-31-2003, 8:43 AM

I wear my Phoenix all the time and regularly lobby young squids into purchasing them ('Hey, you'll look more like a racer in one of these rather than that tank top!').

This story is what's called an anecdote fellas. Not the end all, be all when it comes to mesh gear. For every catastrophic failure of a jacket like this (and I'm still a bit suspect that the jacket 'failed' - the guy said he was trapped under a hot engine for pete's saked), there are no doubt similar incidents of low speed get-offs where rash and other injury was minimized or outrightly prevented because of a Phoenix or similar garment.

Full leather is, I'm sure, best. But to argue that mesh textiles aren't worth the fabric they're made from is a bit ignorant IMO.

Baketech · 07-31-2003, 8:59 AM

http://members.fireblades.org/bakete...readvortex.JPG

2OHOH2 · 07-31-2003, 9:07 AM

Quote:

G-Force Junkie : On the jacket thing, anyone on a $8-20k sportbike can affort a $300-500 jacket.

At the very least they could take a pointer from our plasma-pimpin' Steggy for a couple of months

luvtolean · 07-31-2003, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Heavy-Dee :

I can't grasp the logic of the people with these Phoenix jackets. This is at least the 5th time I've seen someone post how they worked like $hit in a wreck but people always defend them.

Why would you wear something to lessen injuries when for practically the same cost you can have gear that will keep you from sustaining any injuries?!

Ah who cares, at least one person finally gets it.

ConqSoft · 07-31-2003, 12:03 PM

Just to piss LTL off more...

http://www.cbrxx.org/me.jpg

luvtolean · 07-31-2003, 12:05 PM

Naw, I'd first have to give a $hit if you got rashed up Conq.

Baketech · 07-31-2003, 12:05 PM

Do they call them Phoenix because after you slide you have to rise from the ashes?

Tank69 · 07-31-2003, 2:13 PM

Quote:

luvtolean : I can't grasp the logic of the people with these Phoenix jackets. *This is at least the 5th time I've seen someone post how they worked like $hit in a wreck but people always defend them. *

Why would you wear something to lessen injuries when for practically the same cost you can have gear that will keep you from sustaining any injuries?! *

Ah who cares, at least one person finally gets it.

Will a leather jacket SUSTAIN a broken collar bone better than a mesh jacket? NOT HARDLY. Same cost? What, are you comparing different currencies? My Speedmaster jacket cost $350, PHX jacket $100. Yeah, those are really close in cost and you still don't get the guarantee that you will sustain NO injuries, as you stated.

What if someone posted that their LEATHER jacket 'BLEW APART' during a crash, would we all put our jackets in the garbage? Same as mesh, if a leather jacket is poorly constructed or defective at the seams, this could very easily happen. I've seen it happen to a HD friend of mine back east, the LEATHER jacket literally fell apart as he hit the pavement. Guess what, he got rashed to hell and the jacket he bought was a $600 HD jacket. It was triple stitched at the seams and had thick leather, the damn thing must have weighed 10+ pounds. Defective in my opinion, but it can happen to ANY jacket.

Frankly, I could give a rat's ass what you or anyone else wears. There are going to be horror stories about leather, mesh, mesh/leather combo, etc. If you by cheap gear, expect cheap protection. No, it doesn't always work that way, but all you can go by is personal recommendation. As for the new riders, I would suggest taking these posts with a grain of salt as SOME GEAR is better than NO GEAR.

Heavy-Dee · 07-31-2003, 2:33 PM

Quote:

Tank69 : SOME GEAR is better than NO GEAR.

Exactly right.