[booracer]

Hi Guys and Gals,

Here

stage 1pc suit or violator 1pc suit?

[Nickelii]

A*

[SpikedLemon]

Depends on the model and apparel.

But my A* boots have been thru hell and still look great!

[ucfmotorcycle1]

You can get the Teknic stuff pretty cheap on ebay. So for me the price made the decision. By the way I got a violator suit brand new with all the tags shipped to me for under $300.

[slanger]

another +1 for the teknic,

i got my violator 1pc brand new for 400 shipped, it has the hard armor and fits rather well

[license2ill]

Not so sure the Teknic will be any better, as they aren't known for the best stitching either, but here's some pics of the damage to a Stage suit from a mild fall:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...l/DSCF0623.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...l/DSCF0622.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...l/DSCF0621.jpg

[slanger]

Originally Posted by license2ill

Not so sure the Teknic will be any better, as they aren't known for the best stitching either, but here's some pics of the damage to a Stage suit from a mild fall:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...l/DSCF0623.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...l/DSCF0622.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...l/DSCF0621.jpg

have you sent those pics to A*

[Purpdust]

I have not used either but I do know that some Technic leathers are made at the same factory as Ness and Icon

[license2ill]

Originally Posted by slanger

have you sent those pics to A*

Haha, they are well-aware of how they've chosen to put together their leathers, and after reading a couple of tests of their suits over the years in Ride Magazine, they still seem to be more intersted in their name recognition and fashion statements. It's no secret in the industry that they cut corners, even on their high-end suits. In case you missed those articles, here's the links to those:

http://www.southbayriders.com/forums.../pic102319.pdf

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c5...therstest9.jpg

[Tornado bait]

I've owned a Violator and probably would not buy another. The price was right, but the fit was not good at all. I guess it depends on your physique.

[BDA116]

I've owned "a few" Violators, and crashed at triple digits in them more than once.
Not a scratch, not a seam issue, nothing. They are very well made suits.
None of the seams are single stitched like that above pictured suit.

[flip f4i pilot]

try them on if you can before you buy. Teknics fit a bit snug so be careful on what size you get. I have a* boots and gloves that are great (never crash tested, nor do i plan to)

[Tornado bait]

Originally Posted by BDA116

I've owned "a few" Violators, and crashed at triple digits in them more than once.
Not a scratch, not a seam issue, nothing. They are very well made suits.
None of the seams are single stitched like that above pictured suit.

What the hell do you know...you ride a girls bike.

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by Tornado bait

What the hell do you know...you ride a girls bike.

True dat.

[Fastrr]

Thank you for posting what A* leathers look like after a fall.

This is on topic but a tad off topic as well. I ran across this type of thread once that is stronger than ANY fabric thread i have ever seen. The manufacturer name is *Dyneema*. That is thread these jacket and pant makers should be using. You can't tear the stuff and i'm pretty certain road rash wouldn't be able to tear the thread either. The stuff is so strong a sharp pair of siccors has a hard time cutting through it. The awesome part is it is not too stiff for stiching. The original use for the thread was for compound bow&arrow string. A small normal size spool of this Dyneema thread is about $7 and comes in many colors. If you have repair work to do on any leathers i would recomend this stuff. Can be bought at some bow hunting shops.

[license2ill]

Originally Posted by Fastrr

Thank you for posting what A* leathers look like after a fall.

This is on topic but a tad off topic as well. I ran across this type of thread once that is stronger than ANY fabric thread i have ever seen. The manufacturer name is *Dyneema*. That is thread these jacket and pant makers should be using. You can't tear the stuff and i'm pretty certain road rash wouldn't be able to tear the thread either. The stuff is so strong a sharp pair of siccors has a hard time cutting through it. The awesome part is it is not too stiff for stiching. The original use for the thread was for compound bow&arrow string. A small normal size spool of this Dyneema thread is about $7 and comes in many colors. If you have repair work to do on any leathers i would recomend this stuff. Can be bought at some bow hunting shops.

Dyneema is used in some helmet shells. I think it may be susceptible to moisture degradation, if I'm not mistaken when used in an open thread like that, can't remember. There is another material that Kushitani is known for using, Zylon, same thing, stronger than Kevlar, etc, but its tensile strength degarades rapidly in the environment, and especially when presented with moisture and long-term use. These isseus were revealed in investigations centered around it's use in ballistic vest that were failing due to the tensile strength loss in one and two year old vests worn by police officers. Go figure, Kushitani sews their gloves with it. Kevlar is also used sometimes, with criticisms of it lacking elasticity, but that appear to be unfounded after seeing results of recent tests of BKS gloves.

On that note, seam strength can be tricky from everything I gather, especially with leather. Too strong of a seam could just end-up exposing the weakness of the leather to tear, or tear through the leather itself. That appears to be less of an issue with most textiles found in motorcyclist garments, but it's still the same, it must be mated to the tear strength properties of the garment material properly. I have a feeling it's trickiest to get it right with seams that mate the two materials together. There no doubt shoudl be some reinforcement on one side of that stich or another or a stronger stitching technique used, or perhaps a different thread that put more stress on the leather, rather than ripping out. Either way, the seam was not strong enough, and the stretch material was perhaps not thick enough either in that example. This has been shown over and over with the Ride Magazine comparison tests cited in a post above too, and there is a reason that the CE standards for whole motoryclist suits require double layers of stretch materials, and minimum seam strength and burst requirements for the different zones of a suits. You won't find any qualified suits meeting those minimum requirements or scoring high in those test comparisons falling that low in those testing values, showing that type of crash damage, or being built with exposed stitching, and single layers of stretch or leather in that area of placement.

[Repeater]

I'm going with Z leathers when i get back to the track in 07. last track day was.......june 2 06 and i am almost sober.

I wonder whats up with the goat hide that technic uses. is it better, cheaper, what?

[license2ill]

Originally Posted by Repeater

I'm going with Z leathers when i get back to the track in 07. last track day was.......june 2 06 and i am almost sober.

I wonder whats up with the goat hide that technic uses. is it better, cheaper, what?

I've heard it's less expensive, and though I've heard previously that it was typically more abrasion resistant than cowhide, I just read something tonight that suggested that it's typically not. Either way, similar to kangaroo, it can only be found in smaller pieces, so it would appear better suited for items like gloves. You'll find more panels stitched together in the Teknic goat hide suits, and the extra labor costs that come with more stitching hours and techniques doesn't seem to be included in those Teknic suits either. I don't know if the goathide has any of the reported unique qualities of kangaroo leather or not, but it may be better than kangaroo in the fact that the animals are farm rasied and don't tend to fight with claws like the culled kangaroos from the wild.

Here you go Motorcycle Council Of NSW - Road Safety - Frequently Asked Questions :

According to tests conducted by SATRA in UK, bovine leather will tend to last longer than sheep or goat leather of the same thickness. Bovine leather that is around 1.2 - 1.4 mm can give between 6 and 12 seconds of abrasion resistance which is sufficient. However it all depends on how the leather has been treated. Two samples of equal thickness bovine suede lasted 0.8 and 8.0 seconds respectively. The only way to be sure is to test the actual sample, that is why the testing systems are so useful for riders.

For more background on those testing numbers Motorcycle Council Of NSW - Road Safety - Jackets and pants :

Leather has been the traditional choice for motorcyclists because of its high abrasion resistance, however, all leathers are not equal. As the MCN tests illustrate, just because it is leather does not guarantee your protection. It depends on the type and grade of leather and how it has been treated. In abrasion tests conducted on 29 different types and grades of motorcycle leather, only 17 passed for use in Zones 1 and 2. (SARTRA, 2002).

Zones 1 and 2 are in reference to the EU CE standard for motoryclist suits which requires a specified minimum time to failure for those protective areas of a suit. Zone 1 includes the knees, elbows, shoulders, and hips, or the areas most likely to see impact and abrasion. Zone 2 is the extended area around Zone 1, most likely to see abrasion in a fall including the upper front thigh, butt, and lower forearm areas as shown here: Motorcycle Council Of NSW - Road Safety - What parts of your body should you protect?