[WetShrub]

Is there a point at your development as a rider where you HAVE to start sliding the tires in order to go faster? Or at least be comfortable with the tire sliding some? I noticed with YSR racing that I consistently slide the front at times during races. It skips along a little bit but it doesn't really make me nervous. Sliding either tire on my SV650 would freak me out but it seems like most of the better club racers are doing it at some level....like it's a natural thing. Should I expect it to start happening as my speed increases and just deal with it or is it something I should avoid by riding more smoothly and getting slicks and making suspension adjustments? I almost see it as a limitation with my riding at this point. I can't imagine being comfortable with it.

-Shrub

[Crash]

I guess I would want to break it down to sliding under power or under braking. I've been running Motards for the past 6 months and have come to a new realization about tire sliding. It isn't a problem as long as it controlled. I think that there is a diffinate point in your development when you begin to find the limits, and tire slide is one of those limits. You just have to be comfortable on the tires and never chop the throttle if your sliding under power. Under braking a slide and cause a loss of control.

Most times, it means your tires are fragged and time to replace them.

[02FBlade]

Sliding the front..... Never been a good thing to me...usually I'm in too hot if the front slides while braking. Rear sliding, it will come as you progress and hit the limits of your chassis. Then it's time to spend some money on suspension/chassis.

[luvtolean]

Sliding is how it goes, some slide more than others...chassis set-up riding style (or lack of), being a throttle jockey...

[abtech]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Sliding is how it goes, some slide more than others...chassis set-up riding style (or lack of), being a throttle jockey...

Some riders use "forced" counter steering before the apex to get the front end to push (slide) as a means to scrub off speed. This is tricky, but once you get the hang of it, it works a lot better than trail braking into a lowside.

[WetShrub]

The most sliding I have ever felt and been sort of comfortable with was hard braking for a turn at Thunderhill (turn 14/15) and feeling the front and rear sort of waiver around before going into the turn. It almost felt as if the front was sliding a little and the rear was light so it may have been a little also. It was really hot that day too so maybe that had something to do with it. That was on the 929 on Metzler Sportec's.

On the YSR it's been under acceleration or nuetral throttle, mid-turn. It just sort of skips along a little but never fully let's go.

Hmm...not sure I have the balls to find the limits of my suspension/chassis, nor whether I would recognize the need for improvements in either. I guess that's one of the hardest things about racing a motorcycle though, being a test rider, and what makes Rossi so damn good.

[ratter]

sliding the front = or


too much skill for me

[Crash]

Originally Posted by ratter

sliding the front = or


too much skill for me

Try motard... It's a kick in the pants.. I've never been so scared yet relaxed while sliding around

Hitting dirt on slick tires, fuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnn chit mang

[WetShrub]

Originally Posted by Crash

Try motard... It's a kick in the pants.. I've never been so scared yet relaxed while sliding around

Hitting dirt on slick tires, fuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnnnn chit mang

Sounds like so much fun. I did this course a couple years ago and it was a blast! Slick in the back and knobby in the front...sliding around a short little course. Man that was fun. Slam on the back brake entering the turn...dip the bike...hit the gas full and rooster tail some dirt on the exit! Dirt track style but they set up some crazy twisty courses for us. Then they hosed the place down and we did mud drills. If you didn't "get it" before that, the mud forced you to. Great experience, and you get a discount with your Honda Riders club card.

http://www.americansupercamp.com/index.shtml

[Zippy]

Until I tried Dunlop 208GPA's on a very cold day (53 degrees) at Road America, I very rarely slide the front at all. Those tires were not warming up at all on that cold cold track. Both ends were sliding around. It was not too scary with those tires. It seemed like they were just running loose all the time. But the very predictable slide characteristics gave me some insight as to how the pros can do it. It actually reduced my awe level just a little bit for how they can do that. I am still years away from that level, but it just doesn't seem so unattainable now.

I am still early enough in my personal learning curve that I am making good progress every day I go out. I think I will keep my delusions of grandeur for a while longer.

[tigerblade]

I don't slide very much yet. I've had the rear kick out a little, but you just ride through it.

[Crash]

Originally Posted by WetShrub

Sounds like so much fun. I did this course a couple years ago and it was a blast! Slick in the back and knobby in the front...sliding around a short little course. Man that was fun. Slam on the back brake entering the turn...dip the bike...hit the gas full and rooster tail some dirt on the exit! Dirt track style but they set up some crazy twisty courses for us. Then they hosed the place down and we did mud drills. If you didn't "get it" before that, the mud forced you to. Great experience, and you get a discount with your Honda Riders club card.

http://www.americansupercamp.com/index.shtml

I've heard that course is a lot of fun! Been reading about it, but just haven't had the time or money yet, but it's in the plans

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by abtech

Some riders use "forced" counter steering before the apex to get the front end to push (slide) as a means to scrub off speed. This is tricky, but once you get the hang of it, it works a lot better than trail braking into a lowside.

Yep, I do it on my dirtbike and mt bike, but never on purpose on a RR bike, I'm not that skilled. I've helped pit for guys who "ride the front hard" on their roadrace bikes, and man, it sure can be hell on front tires.

[john954rr]

Originally Posted by abtech

Some riders use "forced" counter steering before the apex to get the front end to push (slide) as a means to scrub off speed. This is tricky, but once you get the hang of it, it works a lot better than trail braking into a lowside.

Could you expand on "forced" counter steering. I do not understand
Thanks

[fl-929]

Originally Posted by abtech

Some riders use "forced" counter steering before the apex to get the front end to push (slide) as a means to scrub off speed. This is tricky, but once you get the hang of it, it works a lot better than trail braking into a lowside.

Used to have a good pic of Freddy Spencer doing this. Left a big darkie.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by john954rr

Could you expand on "forced" counter steering. I do not understand
Thanks

Right before full lean, you push harder on the bars and using your knee as a fulcrum point (as you are forcing the bike to lean at this point), the front end will start sliding. In various situations, you can do this to some extent without using your knee. The net result is maintaining your general line while slowing the bike down.

[Heavy-Dee]

Originally Posted by abtech

Right before full lean, you push harder on the bars and using your knee as a fulcrum point (as you are forcing the bike to lean at this point), the front end will start sliding. In various situations, you can do this to some extent without using your knee. The net result is maintaining your general line while slowing the bike down.

I don't get it. Push how on the bars, and use my knee how?

[abtech]

Originally Posted by Heavy-Dee

I don't get it. Push how on the bars, and use my knee how?

You push on the right bar to increase the lean angle in a right hand turn and push on the left bar to increase lean in a left hand turn. You do know about counter steering right?

Example: You approach the turn in point of a right hand turn and begin to push on the right bar to initiate turn in. Once your knee touches down, you hold the bike "up" with your knee while you continue to push on the right bar. This will start the front end pushing (sliding). You push on the left bar while rolling on the throttle to bring it back up.

[WetShrub]

Originally Posted by abtech

You push on the right bar to increase the lean angle in a right hand turn and push on the left bar to increase lean in a left hand turn. You do know about counter steering right?

Example: You approach the turn in point of a right hand turn and begin to push on the right bar to initiate turn in. Once your knee touches down, you hold the bike "up" with your knee while you continue to push on the right bar. This will start the front end pushing (sliding). You push on the left bar while rolling on the throttle to bring it back up.

YOUCH!!! That sounds really scary!

I can't believe some one would do that on purpose. I have done it by accident before when my knee wasn't nice and loose and I immediately stopped pushing so hard.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by WetShrub

YOUCH!!! That sounds really scary!

I can't believe some one would do that on purpose. I have done it by accident before when my knee wasn't nice and loose and I immediately stopped pushing so hard.

It's the hot ticket for turn 5 at Grattan . . .

[Heavy-Dee]

Originally Posted by abtech

You push on the right bar to increase the lean angle in a right hand turn and push on the left bar to increase lean in a left hand turn. You do know about counter steering right?

Example: You approach the turn in point of a right hand turn and begin to push on the right bar to initiate turn in. Once your knee touches down, you hold the bike "up" with your knee while you continue to push on the right bar. This will start the front end pushing (sliding). You push on the left bar while rolling on the throttle to bring it back up.

Yea, I know about counter steering. I just didn't think that THAT was what you meant. To me, this sould like a recipe for a lowside.

HD

[abtech]

Originally Posted by Heavy-Dee

Yea, I know about counter steering. I just didn't think that THAT was what you meant. To me, this sould like a recipe for a lowside.

HD

Actually just the opposite (in comparison to trail braking to the same extent).

[Heavy-Dee]

Originally Posted by abtech

Actually just the opposite (in comparison to trail braking to the same extent).

B/c you are still asking the front tire to corner, rather than corner AND brake. Right?