[Phadreus]

Hi guys,

I'm a street rider, however; I'm going to start doing track days next season, starting off with a good track oriented riding school. I've ridden since 5 years old, just never got the opportunity to get onto a track (other than motocross).

My question is this: How to these guys that race, go out onto a track dirrectly after a bad crash? I werecked on the street a few years ago and was a little ancy riding for a few months. How can these guys get the crash out of their minds so easily? It's always fascinated me...

Cheers all...

[.OrgOwner]

This is great question, maybe testosterone has a lot to do with it. I don't crash like I once did but I can tell you a crash today will stay with me a lot longer than any crash I took when I was 20. Remember chicks dig scars and all that stuff... If your talking about pros it's just focus and determination, why did crash? what can I do to correct it? what did I learn? I don't think fear comes into play so much. Crashing teaches you where the limits are and to be the best you can be you need to be aware of them... If you crash and don't get hurt your less afraid to some extent...

[soupnazi]

Crashing consistently on the track in the right safety gear with run off etc would make it more for a learning experience than a fearful one.

[Phadreus]

I guess all the safety gear and the safety design of the track (runoff areas, etc) helps the mental aspect, not to mention the odds of survival of a track crash vs a street crash where you can hit imovable and indestructable objects in your path. Maybe it's much like what I experienced riding dirt bike where crashes were very common, like every time I rode; it never bothered me then...probably because I rarely was injured.

[bladeracer]

I can't speak for others but I don't forget them and I don't particularly try to. In fact I can tell you exactly how many times I've crashed - 29 :-)
My last one put me off the track for two years.
My first lap back at that circuit was fine as I was too busy to realise.
Second lap through the section where I was cleaned up from behind I suddenly realised and found I was focussing on it and could almost feel a bike about to slam my arse :-)
I realised pretty quickly though and had gotten over it by the next time around. It's all just a mind game.

[soupnazi]

Originally Posted by Phadreus

you can hit imovable and indestructable objects

It's the roadside furniture that does most of the damage.

Originally Posted by Phadreus

riding dirt bike where crashes were very common, like every time I rode

I think the saying is 'if you don't fall off you're not trying hard enough'.

[bladeracer]

I probably should add that I've seen two racers die first hand and that stays with me much more than any of my own crashes.

[.OrgOwner]

Originally Posted by bladeracer

I probably should add that I've seen two racers die first hand and that stays with me much more than any of my own crashes.

Yeah 100% true, even reading about that sort of stuff turns my gut.. While we are on the subject of crashing and other people there is also the case when see one of your ridding buddies constantly riding obove their ablity. Telling them they need to tone things down can be a delicate subject and a real test of friendship.

[sheepofblue]

Originally Posted by .OrgOwner

Yeah 100% true, even reading about that sort of stuff turns my gut.. While we are on the subject of crashing and other people there is also the case when see one of your ridding buddies constantly riding obove their ablity. Telling them they need to tone things down can be a delicate subject and a real test of friendship.

easy for me. If I am a true friend I cannot stand by and do nothing. That said I will stop riding with anyone on the street that does this (and avoid them at the track) as stupid breeds stupid and I have enough of my own.

[bladeracer]

On the track I don't have any trouble with guys crashing (we learn the most from our biggest mistakes after all) as at least they're making the effort to improve their skills but I've ridden with too many of that type on the road and got sick of being involved. These days I rarely ride with anybody I don't know _really_ well.
I'll help anybody that's in trouble but riding with people where I'm just _waiting_ for them to hurt themselves or somebody else just doesn't do it for me these days :-)

[Jotaro]

It's because they know what went wrong and they rarely make the same mistake twice would be my guess.

I had spills at the track and it stangely put a grin on my face cause I knew what happened and just couldn't wait to get out there again. I'm no racer btw tho'.

[bladeracer]

We still make the same mistakes but we get much better at them the second time around ;-)

[Platinum929]

It seems as if you got a lot of good advice from mostly everyone that repsponded. I never forget a crash, and I have never crashed in the same corner due to the same mistake. Practice laps, track days, warm up laps, to me are learning sessions. Each corner has it's own characteristics, tolerances, and tendecies, which means it has to be approached differently. Crashing hurts, theres a news flash....wow, that's why I can remeber each one and don't do it as often anymore... Thank God........Good Luck and Be Safe and Go fast

[Twincam]

Well crashes are never going to disappear from your mind. You just have to learn to push them to the back, or just make way for new ones.

I learnt that from every crash, you can learn something you didnt know, unless it was another racer that caused it - still you could also learn something from that.

I first learnt what my blade was capable and what its limits where (With out falling down) and then i moved onto the track. Again what Platinum929 said, every corner is different. That is also true for the rider and his/her bike.

Crashing is always going to be there, just make sure you live to tell the tail.

Twincam

[TKDmasterZ]

I think being able to overcome fear is one of the talents that a racer must have, and it could possibly be the difference between a common man and a racer. I often hear of racers riding with broken finger or collar bone. Knowing how much body needs to endure to control a fast moving motorcycle, it is amazing how much determination and control they have.
I've crashed several times on the track, and I couldn't help myself freaking out returning to the same spot at first. But one of the main advantage of being on the track is that you get to go through the same corner so many times that you can build the confidence again. Then you can move on hopefully with a new lesson. BTW, 3 of 4 crashes were due to cold tires...
It's a totally different story for me on the streets. I've crashed a couple of times in the canyons, and I cannot stop myself from slowing down A LOT at the same spot. My mind is replaying the crash scene as I go through the corner, and I cannot stop my right fingers from hitting that brake. To me the crashes on the streets were much more scarier, and hard to get over with.

[dicknose]

I was going to say they forget them due to concussion...

[bladeracer]

I've had three concussions and the last one was huge. My lid was smashed from behind my left ear right around to the top. I remember _very_ little of the three months following the crash :-)

[fl-929]

I have only fallen once off my bike once so I don't have that much experience with it. But for me it was easy to get back on the horse as I pretty much know what happened and I had on my full gear. If anything I was kind of irritated and couldn't wait to get back on the track.

[slickwill]

If a horse bucks you off you get back on. My horse tossed me down the side of a mountain three weeks ago. I climbed back up caught the darn thing and rode the piss out of her. My dad broke his wrist on one of our colts. He had to have a plate and four screws put in. He was back on him the day the doctor gave him an okay.

On a bike I think that .OrgOwner hit it right. You learn from it and try not to make the same mistake again.

I went down at about 65mph on my skis once. I just about flew into a pile of rocks when it happened, and it took over 300 yards to get stopped. I realized exactly what I had done and was right back there trying it again.

I went down on my CBR in our school parking lot. A girl pulled out directly in front of me. It wasn't my fault but it has made me much more aware. I thought I did a good job of watching and being alert before then but I am at a whole new level now.

[marcelo]

I do not think it's about forgetting the crash.
From my perspective, it is more about not letting a crash or anything else make them lose their mental focus. The best racers either naturally or through learned techniques can put their minds into the right gear, no matter what has recently happened to them.

For example, Melandri at Laguna Seca? He had a high speed crash.
He gets patched-up continues qualifying and finished third in the race the
next day.

My guess, is that they do it often enough, that they can push themselves in the right state of mind. We are all different and I imagine
that for some it comes naturally and for other they have their own technique to get themselves in the right frame of mind, even right after crashing.

I am trackday rider (not a racer and not a street rider) and I find that somedays it is hard to get things to start flowing maybe because of a recent crash or maybe something else. Sometimes, well into the third session I'll be as much as 5 seconds slower per lap than the last time I was at that same track. Even though I really want to get into the right mental state to really enjoy the day and ride fast (for me). If I crashed recently, or something else has put me off, for me it becomes a real mind game.
Other days it comes easily. If I do back to back, or three days in a row, it usually it comes easily on the second and third day. When I am having trouble get things to flow, I have learned that I can not just decide to go faster when my mind is not in the right space. First of all, it takes all the fun out of it. Secondly, the harder I try the more tense I get and I start to slow down even more. I get nervous at a pace that is well within my normal range. It took me a while, but rather than keep fighting it,
I simply go back to working on the basics, like looking way-up the track, smooth trottle control, and trying different lines. After one, two or sometimes three sessions, like that, I get into the right frame of mind and
my speed comes up with thinking about going faster.

Anyway, that is my take on it.....

[Phadreus]

Wow, you guys have offered some great thoughts on this. So what I'm hearing is: it's not about forgetting the crash, it's about getting the right perspective on it, learning from it and focusing again without letting the crash interfere with that. That in fact would have been a better way of asking the question; "how does one gain mental focus after a crash?".

I like Marcelo's thoughts on getting back to basics to help get focus back. I found the same thing in many different sports. Golf is one of the most obvious, but I'm sure the principal is the same no matter what sport...except cliff diving, one mess up there and you are "stuff on a rock".

It's funny; slickwill mentioned falling off of a horse and getting hurt. I never hear anyone tell horse owners to sell their horse before they kill themselves, but motorcycles...well that's different.

[TKDmasterZ]

Originally Posted by marcelo

I simply go back to working on the basics, like looking way-up the track, smooth trottle control, and trying different lines. After one, two or sometimes three sessions, like that, I get into the right frame of mind and
my speed comes up with thinking about going faster.

This is the very reason I stopped using lap timer at the track. At first, when I was improving laptimes at every session, it was the best thing in the world. After about 10+ track days, it started to become much harder to see any improvements on laptimes, and each session became more frustrating. Soon I forgot this was all about enjoying to ride. So I tossed the lap timer a while back, and I sometimes go to the track on street tires to experience the controlled sliding.

[RdRcr150]

This is a really interesting topic. I still see the crash in my video memory. Falling, going into 1 at Daytona. Third place was lost and in return I was awarded 2 broken legs, broken arm, deep skin removal, and a bell ringing previously never experienced. The worst part though was after coming to my senses a couple of days later I had no memory of the actual crash. What had happened? What went wrong? Try as i may, the video was blank. I decide after rehab that roadracing should go on hold until my body was ready and I discovered what went wrong. I turned back to my roots, MX and hare scrambles. I hadn't raced off-road for several years and I quickly discovered that I was out of shape, but ready. It was wierd, but the speeds felt slower than they had been. Forward five years. It was a duel to the end. Two riders, a KTM300 and a KX125, different classes, nothing to be gained by beating the other. That wasn't the issue, it was more of a David versus Goliath issue. There was no way this KTM was gonna beat my KX. We were racing in a potato field. Big dirt squares with raised dirt roads intersecting at right angles a hundred yards in length. A zig-zag. He would pass me on the straights and I would go by him on the brakes going into the corner. Two laps, six straights per lap I was getting better and beter with each time. It became my goal to get ahead by going deeper into the corner until I could gain enough advatage that he couldn't get by on the short straight after the potato field and I could lead him into the tight woods section until the finish a mile or so ahead. That was the plan. On the last lap midway through the field as I braked hard for the corner, having just passed the KTM, I relived my crash at Daytona five years earlier. It came as a flash into my brain. I came to complete stop. I just sat there, incredibly my video memory was hardwired in my brain. The KTM stopped and waved to me, I waved back. Forward two years, ROC at Daytona, racing for two years always skipping Daytona, I lived 45 minutes away, I sit on my bike going out for first practice. How would I feel coming into turn 1 for the first time? Nothing! It came it went! Next lap more of the same. I had no feelings or emotions about the turn and alleged site of the bashing. My bud and I returned yearly to race until we both decided to do other things six years later. My point at last. I think, to be a racer, you have to be hardwired that way or crashing becomes an unsurmountable hurdle. A coupl of years later I literally got knocked off my bike going down the back straight at Daytona by a Novice rider pracing his draft and pass move. He failed and I got to dismount at 150. That was at the ROC and at bikeweek I was back and turned hundreds of laps over the years on increasingly faster bikes and the only feeling I ever get going down the backstretch is YEEEHAWWW! Could be good. Could be bad.

[720cougar954]

[quote=Phadreus;621835]Hi guys,

You never forget them I dont think. You just block them out at the time thats all. Just like riding a peddle bike when you where first learning. Yeah you think about the pain but also what do you put infront of that? You just think about the results---and whats that? Try not to make the same mistake again. Than its all remembered as experience. We all go down and its not IF its WHEN. Good luck on the track and maybe Ill see ya in a turn or 2 this year.

[ffmedicgerbs]

so RDRCR when does ur book get published? lol

[low-rider]

i had 2 crashes. in first one i broke my pelvis bone and right wrist. in second one i haven't broken anything but after that second one i had much more fear and it took me a long time to get rid off that feeling. like someone said...it's a mind game. you just need to block it...not to forget it but to block your mind to be over protective...to much defensive.

and believe me those pro's...it is much easier to forget ur fall if somebody else is paying for the bike damage

sometimes bike damage hurts much more then few bruses. im joking...the most important is human life/lives.

[ffmedicgerbs]

u do have a point in the money issue, i would be much more likely to get super low in corners if i knew that sliding out and messing up the bike would not put a large hole in my bank account.

it is a big deal, they are paid to race and if they are scared they cant race and they get no pay, they can get up and do it again for many more reasons then money obvously, but if i was getting paid to race it would just make me want to straighten out my head that much quicker

[-Z-]

Let's see, I've crashed 8 times. 3 on the street, 5 on the track, if you count the times I hit something or was hit, but didn't actually go down. The street crashes scared me far more than the track ones. As far as the track goes, 3 highsides and 2 lowsides. But each one of those was my fault in some way, either getting too aggressive or not having my suspension set up the way it should have been. As far as the street goes, #1 was me being way too aggressive and trying to make it through a left-turn before the light turned red, and lowsiding. #2 was getting hit by a lady in a Cadillac Escalade because even though I was right next to her, she wanted to be in my lane. Sent me across the median and through oncoming traffic and into the wall. #3 was some guy on the freeway at night who was more than likely drunk or at the very least very stupid, because he came up from behind without any headlights on and hit me. Sent me out of control and into the guardrail.

As for getting over the crashes and getting right back on the bike...well, I'd have to say that in each case I've been injured in some way so there's always been at least a 2 or 3 week delay while I heal up and get new gear/parts to replace everything that was damaged. Usually by that point I'm fiending so badly to be able to ride again that I don't even consider NOT riding. Then again, I've been pretty lucky and have escaped most of my crashes with very little in the way of injuries. Expensive gear really does seem to work, in my opinion.

[720cougar954]

when do you want it??????????? ffmedicgerbs

[ptlcb1]

As a racer, crashes are never forgotten. I remember each one I have had. I thank the Lord that I have never been seriously hurt, when my butt has hit the pavement. I get right back on and ride, because I love to ride! I love being on the track. I love the feeling of riding a motorcycle fast... in the right place, a racetrack! Its my drug! Thats why I get back up and ride again! Pro riders get back on the bike after a crash, God forbid any serious injury, because they have that passion for riding as well! But they also have that piece of paper called a contract! You ride, we pay you to ride! LOL

If you do not get hit by another bike that causes you to crash, then this is what a crash is. First, let me get this out of the way... At some point in time, you will crash. Its a given. Its going to happen. Hopefully, you will not sustain any serious injuries, so you can ride again.

So, a crash, in my opinion, unless by mechanical failure, is a misunderstanding in the relationship you have with your motorcycle. A communication breakdown. Have you ever seen a race where a guy falls, and the bike stays up and rolls like it has an invisible rider on it, until it runs into something? Bikes have the ability to do this. What messes up the perfect ride, is us, the riders. A crash, when by yourself, is probably because you asked the bike to do something it did not understand. You have to learn to work with a bike, and not against it. If you ask it to do something it doesnt understand, there is usually a price to pay. If/when you do fall, playback the entire situation that lead up to the fall. Crashes are learning experiences. Figure out what you did, that put you on your butt, so you dont repeat the same mistake. That requires total focus when you are on the track. Your mind has to be clear of all that has nothing to do with riding when you are on the bike.

Riding season is just around the corner here in the midwest. Keith Code's Book or dvd, "A Twist of the Wrist", is a great way to get your mindset ready for when you do get out on the track months from now. Good luck! You will wonder why it took you so long to get on the track! Its very addicting! You have been warned! LOL