Starting Track days

tiale11 · 03-03-2009, 1:11 AM

hey all,
i really dont know where to start here but i'll try my best to keep it short and simple.
1) i bought a 05 honda cbr1000rr 3months ago (1st bike)(love the bike and love to ride

)
2) want to learn how race a bike (on a track of course)
3) is learning to race on a 1000cc ok or should i start with a 250cc 1st?
4) how do i get in a program that teaches me how to race a bike? do some bike clubs offer to teach that?
5) what exactly is a track day? (a day you go go practice your riding?, what if ur a noob like me, how does that work with track days?)

Guys i really want to learn how to ride on a track and may even proceed to racing. i know that im kinda too new for all this but is there really a better place to learn how to ride than a track?

If anyone has any info or website of a sport bike club in NY (Long Island, NYC, or close) that does some track riding and teach it too, let me know.

I really appreciate any help that i can get.
-Alex P

shakey1378 · 03-13-2009, 3:10 PM

look up team pro-motion. also check with hondagaltoo she may know more about it. i havent done a track day and just like you im wanting some track time.

as far as your bike is concerned i would have bought something smaller to start on the street with. you will see what i mean if you do bring the 1krr to the track. once the pace pics up the bigger bike is gunna be a handful exiting corners. i have roughly 12years experience on the street and im a little nervous to take the 929 to the track, i am getting much more comfy on my 929. but i would rather spend my first trackdays only worring about cornering and learning the lines around the track and not worry about getting bucked off.

im not saying that you wont be successful its just being a new rider all together your setting the bar quite high for a beginner.

if i were you i would get a smaller bike. at 19 you have plenty of time to upgrade when your skills improve.

ive stated this time and time again just because you can operate a bike doesnt mean you can "ride" it.

have you shopped for leathers yet?

tiale11 · 03-13-2009, 7:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakey1378

look up team pro-motion. also check with hondagaltoo she may know more about it. i havent done a track day and just like you im wanting some track time.

as far as your bike is concerned i would have bought something smaller to start on the street with. you will see what i mean if you do bring the 1krr to the track. once the pace pics up the bigger bike is gunna be a handful exiting corners. i have roughly 12years experience on the street and im a little nervous to take the 929 to the track, i am getting much more comfy on my 929. but i would rather spend my first trackdays only worring about cornering and learning the lines around the track and not worry about getting bucked off.

im not saying that you wont be successful its just being a new rider all together your setting the bar quite high for a beginner.

if i were you i would get a smaller bike. at 19 you have plenty of time to upgrade when your skills improve.

ive stated this time and time again just because you can operate a bike doesnt mean you can "ride" it.

have you shopped for leathers yet?

Thxs for info dude;
For a while now i got fed up with everybody telling me that 1L bike is too much for a beginner but recently, after taking the bike out for some exercises and some freeways, i just understood why they gave such advice. I am planning on selling (or trading) my bike for a smaller one pretty soon.

Now, i really understand that operating heavier bikes delays the learning curve and also takes some fun out of it because it takes soooo long. As for the power, i really did not have a problem with that. I moderated it pretty well i believe. For these reasons, i think a 0.6L will suit me much better. what do you think?

As for the track, i really was not planning on starting out with the 1L. What do you think of the 0.6L? Is that also too much for a beginner on the track?

Again, i really appreciate your help

tiale11 · 03-13-2009, 7:22 PM

oo, i forgot to add that i got some leather pant and jacket but they are perforated. I had also bough some 30$ gloves from Joe Rocket but they ripped already (crappy stuff). A two piece perforated gear should OK for an amateur track rider correct?

shakey1378 · 03-13-2009, 11:26 PM

i believe for two piece it needs a full 360 zipper, otherwise street only. i plan on getting a one piece anyway for days im only going out riding and track days once i grab as either a cheap sv650 or f4i. i like these two for there ergos "im feeling old these days" and useable engines. i want a twin in the worst way but i dont want to give up the blade so those are two bike reccomendations cause i prefer a bike thats fun to ride all day not just fun to ride...

to get back to gear thats the game plan ive taken sourcing all my safety equipment before i get the track toy.

my shopping list at the moment
celtic suit from stg
bohn or knox armored shorts
undersuit for easy escape of suit for

trips
sidi vertigo corsa boots
spare shark rsr2 incase i have a off...

if there is one thing i am finding out about blowing all my money on the best gear is that its comfortable.

sheepofblue · 03-13-2009, 11:38 PM

Track days: most go in 3 groups Novice, Intermediate, Advanced they usually run 20 minute rotation all day. You will start in Novice and advancement is dependent on you and the group you are riding with rules (basically you don't want a Novice out with a WERA champ as closing speeds get hairy)

Schools: an excellent way to start even before track day #1 They vary in cost and focus. Not familiar with the ones in your area so I will reserve any comment.

Race: Do this later.

Most groups require a helmet newer than 5 years (by date not how long you have it), leather boots up over your ankle, cuff gloves, a suit or two piece that zips together with a 360º zipper. The rules differ but why not protect yourself

To much is not an issue. Many want your antifreeze out and replaced with water and water wetter. Even if not required be kind to your fellow riders and do it, antifreeze is slick and VERY hard to get up so a major safety issue.

Check the bookstore for Road Racing World and in the back they have a schedule that might be helpful.

Hope this helps some.

BALDGONZO · 03-23-2009, 1:19 PM

Sheepofblue has great advise; the school is really a wise thing to attend. On my first track day last year, they had a school with the track day.

Go with a friend, or if no one wants to ride with you bring a friend or relative; also rent a trailer or something to haul your bike with just encase you have a spill and can't ride it home.

One more thing that Sheep didn't mention; it is highly addictive and sooooo much fun not getting any tickets.

Have fun!

CBR929RE · 03-23-2009, 8:58 PM

Closest tracks to you are Pocono in PA, New Jersey Motorsports Park in southern NJ and New Hampshire Motor Speedway. I can't speak of the first 2 but HondaGalToo can shed some light on good clubs/schools that take place there. As far as NHMS goes I've ridden with a 3 different organizations there and they all seem to pretty much have the same group of instructors/control riders. all of which are very good coaches, most with more years of track riding experience than you've been alive. I've done the Penguin Racing School beginner level, track days with Lean Angle Performance School and a combined day with Lean Angle and the Carl McAllister Motorcycle safety school. Check out BostonMoto also, they are running some days at NJMP and NHMS this year. I haven't ridden with them but I know one of the owners from another forum and he's a good guy and former racer.

a 600cc or smaller will be a much better bike for you especially at track days. whatever you decide to do I suggest you get a lot of miles under your belt so you can get comfortable on it before going to the track. and check out the gear requirements on the sites I listed. you're gonna want to buy all that stuff (or you can rent but I figure its good to use on the street too).

tiale11 · 03-23-2009, 11:03 PM

Thanks A LOT for all the info. I will definitely try to get a 600cc as soon as possible. I am hoping that i'll feel comfortable enough this summer with the bike enough to go take the lessons offered by the schools. I am really looking forward to start of all this good stuff because honestly, i would like to know the proper way to do just about everything on a bike and i am also very competitive

.
Again, i really cannot thank you guys enough for the help. It had greatly decreased my ignorance/ confusion about this whole topic.
Thank You

HondaGalToo · 03-23-2009, 11:09 PM

Helllloooo!

As mentioned, start out with trackdays first, learn the ropes there, then advance to racing later if you want. A good starter bike for the track would be a Suzuki SV650. Lots of guys race them, too. A literbike is too much for a noob, on the street or the track, I'm glad you've figured that out.

In our area, there are 3 main trackday orgs. All of them offer some sort of instruction in the Novice group. STT has classroom time, TPM has an ART basic class. NESBA is a bit less formal, but has really good control riders to help you. The three biggies are:
NESBA (northeast sportbike association). NESBA : Northeast Sports Bike Association
Team ProMotion (TPM). www.teampromotion.com
Sportbike Track Time (STT). Sportbike Track Time - Get on the right track !! Toll Free #888-390-4020 I think their novice classroom sessions are good.
There's another one, Absolute Cycle, that runs days primarily at NJ Motosports park. ABSOLUTE CYCLE PERFORMANCE LLC Rahway, NJ 1 (877) 382-9800

They all have rules, it's not a free-for-all, nor is it "open practice". As Sheep said, there are 3 groups, beginner (novice), intermediate, and advanced. All have different passing rules. Start in beginner. Most clubs run 20 minute sessions, rotating between the groups.

As far as schools locally, unfortunately not too much. The above mentioned trackday orgs offer instruction, that's your best bet. Penguin School at Loudon, NH personally I think is too much for a beginner, unless they've changed things. I've never taken it, so I'll defer to CBR929RE. There's a group at Loudon NH called fishtail riding school that is also good. Loudon is about 8 hours from NY, though. Keith Code runs schools at various places, including NJMP. I haven't taken his courses, however, but some folks seem to like them.

The closest tracks are Pocono (the East course is a good track to learn on, stay away from the FUSA course initially), and NJ Motorsports Park. Others that are good but a bit further are Summit Point in WV, and BeaveRun in western PA.

The track orgs I've mentioned above all have their pros and cons. Best to try them all, or at least spectate at some, to see what's the best fit for you. I ride with NESBA and Absolute.

As mentioned, do not skimp on gear. Get motorcycle specific boots with ankle protection. Get gauntlet gloves that come up above your wrist, the shorty gloves are not allowed. A 2 piece suit must have a full-circumferance zipper, not the short one that just goes across the back. Helmet should be no older than 5 years, full-face required. Get a back protector (a separate one, not the cheapie one that comes in the suit).

That's all I can think of for now. Except that if you are a brand-new rider, get several thousand street miles under your belt before going to the track. They will teach you to ride on the track, but they don't teach you how to ride a motorcycle. Operation of all controls must be second nature, and you must be comfortable at highway speeds. Have you taken an MSF class? If not, you should.

As far as bike prep and other rules/regulations, read the info and rider's manuals on each club's website. They differ just a bit sometimes. Basically, mirrors removed, all lights taped, unplug the headlight, disable the brake light. In the beginner group you don't have to change your antifreeze to distilled water/water wetter, but I still advise it. Some groups require a number on your bike. Some of the groups also offer an intro day (NESBA) or try the track (TPM). Not sure about TPM's, but NESBA's intro gives you 2 free sessions in the morning, and requires minimal bike prep.

shakey1378 · 03-23-2009, 11:26 PM

hell if i cant save up for a track bike i may trade down just to get some track time. although i guess i should be patient...i do love the blade and its mine no payments. damn economy lol

CBR929RE · 03-23-2009, 11:53 PM

The time I went to the Penguin School it was jus the 1 day friday school. I think it would be perfect for a first time track rider. First half of the day is classroom and follow the leader sessions. after lunch they let us go in our group. If you aren't comfortable going out on your own the instructors are all more than willing to take you around the whole day. I can tell these guys love teaching new track riders because of how often you see all of them any time I've been to NHMS. and seeing Carl McAllister ride a former AMA Superbike putting down 180hp in the rain riding on slicks

showed he has more talent and experience in his pinky than I do in my entire body. but yes you do need to know how to ride the bike before you go to any track.

I can't believe I forgot Fishtail, I had just looked up the site so I could put it in that last post. I bet if I looked at the instructors and and compared them to the Penguin ones there'd be a bunch of the same faces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakey1378

hell if i cant save up for a track bike i may trade down just to get some track time. although i guess i should be patient...i do love the blade and its mine no payments. damn economy lol

you've been riding for 12 years, I think you have enough experience to take the 929 to the track. just ride like you know how and not above your head and you'll be fine.

JDsmRR · 03-24-2009, 1:11 AM

hey Alex, where in LI are you?(Im in huntington) I also do trackdays as much as possible, so if you have anymore specific questions feel free to pm me.

I started track days on my 954, but I also had the bike for a few years beforehand. Its all about how comfortable you are and if you have the restraint to not go over your head...

jhonda41 · 03-24-2009, 1:46 AM

HG2 and the rest of them pretty much covered all of the bases. I'll add this:

You might want to hook up with some more local groups. Most folks are friendly to strangers and obvious n00bs but the first few trackdays can be overwhelming and it helps to ride with folks that you know or can supplement the coaches teachings. It also helps with the initial awkwardness of being alone in the paddock.

I think all of the clubs have Try the Track events at lunch time where they take total noobs out for a slow, very controlled taste of the track. Best sales pitch I've ever experienced.

Check out the different schedules and let us know when/where you're thinking about coming out. I'm sure one of the tri-state locals will be in attendance.

I'll 2nd JDsmRR's question.... where in NY are you?

-jh

HondaGalToo · 03-24-2009, 6:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

The time I went to the Penguin School it was jus the 1 day friday school. I think it would be perfect for a first time track rider. First half of the day is classroom and follow the leader sessions. after lunch they let us go in our group. If you aren't comfortable going out on your own the instructors are all more than willing to take you around the whole day. I can tell these guys love teaching new track riders because of how often you see all of them any time I've been to NHMS. and seeing Carl McAllister ride a former AMA Superbike putting down 180hp in the rain riding on slicks

showed he has more talent and experience in his pinky than I do in my entire body. but yes you do need to know how to ride the bike before you go to any track.

Good to know that, Penguin used to be strictly a race school and didn't offer much in the way of instruction, especially for noobs. Hmmm, maybe I should go take their school....

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

you've been riding for 12 years, I think you have enough experience to take the 929 to the track. just ride like you know how and not above your head and you'll be fine.

Shakey, agreed, you've been riding a long time and are used to your 929. I'd use it on the track and see how you like it. Then decide if you want something smaller. If you decide to do a NESBA day, let me know. If I'm there, I'll look you up. Or, let me know if you want to do any street rides this year...Spring's coming!!!

HondaGalToo · 03-24-2009, 12:15 PM

I was just looking at Absolute Cycle's website. They have dates at NJMP on May 8th and 9th, that includes a free intro class (including classroom sessions) for new track riders. Absolute has good instructors. They also offer leathers rental.

red-donkey · 03-24-2009, 1:40 PM

My two cents for what it's worth.

Make sure that you can afford to crash your street ride if you take it to the track. No matter how careful you are, it can happen.

sheepofblue · 03-24-2009, 1:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

The time I went to the Penguin School it was jus the 1 day friday school. I think it would be perfect for a first time track rider. First half of the day is classroom and follow the leader sessions. after lunch they let us go in our group. If you aren't comfortable going out on your own the instructors are all more than willing to take you around the whole day. I can tell these guys love teaching new track riders because of how often you see all of them any time I've been to NHMS. and seeing Carl McAllister ride a former AMA Superbike putting down 180hp in the rain riding on slicks showed he has more talent and experience in his pinky than I do in my entire body. but yes you do need to know how to ride the bike before you go to any track.

I can't believe I forgot Fishtail, I had just looked up the site so I could put it in that last post. I bet if I looked at the instructors and and compared them to the Penguin ones there'd be a bunch of the same faces.

you've been riding for 12 years, I think you have enough experience to take the 929 to the track. just ride like you know how and not above your head and you'll be fine.

His pinky might be larger.

Some control riders are not as good as others but I recently again witnessed the norm. I was at Barber on a wet weekend and there was a lady there that was just barely up to Intermediate (and maybe not quite) While the group was running slow overall due to lingering wet spots she was slower and being bothered by what she perceived as close passes. While I never saw one (I lapped her at least once a session) some did not give her as wide a berth I as I chose to. They also passed a few times in two areas I don't pass new looking people. So you get the flavor but for the entire afternoon when I saw her there was a control rider following and slightly off line. This forced people to give her even more than the required 6ft (unless they were completely clueless and tried to tuck under control then cross up and go outside her). By doing so no one had issues going around both and she was more comfortable while she acclimated to "I". I think most organizers are willing to do similar if needed. So go and ask a zillion questions, they will answer and help. If they don't load the bike and NEVER ride with them again.

tiale11 · 03-24-2009, 2:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDsmRR

hey Alex, where in LI are you?(Im in huntington) I also do trackdays as much as possible, so if you have anymore specific questions feel free to pm me.

I started track days on my 954, but I also had the bike for a few years beforehand. Its all about how comfortable you are and if you have the restraint to not go over your head...

I used to be in Baldwin, but i moved last year to Astoria (Queens). Jhonda41, thanks for that advice, i think i might just go look up some clubs pretty soon. I am not planning on going to any tracks until mid to late May because of college. What i am trying to do is be as ready as possible to attack of all this good stuff this summer. I took the basic riders course from MSF late last year and am planning on taking their more advanced course before hitting any other courses and any track.
Hondagaltoo recommended i get the Suzuki SV650. I read a bit about it and it doesnt seem to be a bad deal for the street and some track.
I wouldnt mind getting some more input on that bike. Is it worth getting it over a 600rr or something similar? i am still leaning slightly towards a the 600cc track bikes (for street and track riding) but part of wants to follow the advice from Hondagaltoo because, well its the experience that is speaking. Last time i dint follow advices, i ended up with a Liter bike

. hahah.
well thank you guys for helping me out here. I cannot tell you how much i appreciate this.
-Alex P.

tiale11 · 03-24-2009, 2:05 PM

o, just in case you are wondering, i think i am doing pretty good bikes providing that i was never allowed to ride one in my childhood. I am very satisfied that i "graduated" 1st in the basic riders course

when there were other riders there that have apparently been riding for quite sometime in other countries and in the U.S without a license

shakey1378 · 03-24-2009, 4:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

Shakey, agreed, you've been riding a long time and are used to your 929. I'd use it on the track and see how you like it. Then decide if you want something smaller. If you decide to do a NESBA day, let me know. If I'm there, I'll look you up. Or, let me know if you want to do any street rides this year...Spring's coming!!!

ive been telling myself exactly what you and cbr929re are telling me now. maybe if i install a slipper clutch it will ease my mind. ive had the blade a year now and while im comfy on it im still cautious...

HondaGalToo · 03-24-2009, 4:27 PM

Do they make a slipper clutch for the 929? Probably expensive. Do you blip when you downshift to match revs? I only hopped the rear once. The gix came stock with a slipper, but I still blip, it's a habit!

A trackday is what you make it, there's no reason to crash, although it does happen, sometimes through no fault of your own. But, if you ride within your abilities, no reason you shouldn't stay upright. I did trackdays for a dozen years before I had one "mishap".

Nothing wrong with being a bit cautious, I'm pretty reserved myself.

CBR929RE · 03-24-2009, 5:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

Good to know that, Penguin used to be strictly a race school and didn't offer much in the way of instruction, especially for noobs. Hmmm, maybe I should go take their school....

the 2 day school might be different from the one day. My track riding started with the 3 days at Grattan then 1 days at NHMS with Lean Angle then I did the Penguin school. The Penguin school was actually very similar to Lean Angle, I think I even lucked out and had the same instructor towing me around both days. While it is a race school all that really means for the beginner part is they do some classroom stuff involving flags and general race stuff and you get a certificate to get your license. To get your license you have to complete the Novice race. All the instructors are excellent when it comes to new track riders. For you HGT I'd suggest being in the advanced group if you wanna take the Penguin school. The 2 days school might be a bit different though. I remember when MadMax went he got bumped up in the second day because had some track riding experience beforehand.

Tiale I'd suggest no mater what organization you go to the track with find an instructor/control rider before you go out on track and tell them you are new to the track and want someone to show you around. they usually have orange vests or maybe red shirts over their leathers to tell them apart. some orgs will ask in the riders meeting at the begining of the day who hasn't been on track before but if they don't make sure you ask. Ask in the meeting if possible so anyone else who hasn't been there can also get the benefit of it too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheepofblue

His pinky might be larger.

Some control riders are not as good as others but I recently again witnessed the norm. I was at Barber on a wet weekend and there was a lady there that was just barely up to Intermediate (and maybe not quite) While the group was running slow overall due to lingering wet spots she was slower and being bothered by what she perceived as close passes. While I never saw one (I lapped her at least once a session) some did not give her as wide a berth I as I chose to. They also passed a few times in two areas I don't pass new looking people. So you get the flavor but for the entire afternoon when I saw her there was a control rider following and slightly off line. This forced people to give her even more than the required 6ft (unless they were completely clueless and tried to tuck under control then cross up and go outside her). By doing so no one had issues going around both and she was more comfortable while she acclimated to "I". I think most organizers are willing to do similar if needed. So go and ask a zillion questions, they will answer and help. If they don't load the bike and NEVER ride with them again.

good advice. if they aren't willing to help you don't wanna be riding with them. although that's probably a very rare occurance.

Trackdays are all about improving your skills and having fun. just remember that the whole time.

shakey1378 · 03-24-2009, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HondaGalToo

Do they make a slipper clutch for the 929? Probably expensive. Do you blip when you downshift to match revs? I only hopped the rear once. The gix came stock with a slipper, but I still blip, it's a habit!

A trackday is what you make it, there's no reason to crash, although it does happen, sometimes through no fault of your own. But, if you ride within your abilities, no reason you shouldn't stay upright. I did trackdays for a dozen years before I had one "mishap".

Nothing wrong with being a bit cautious, I'm pretty reserved myself.

ive only hopped the rear wheel downshifting twice. it was in the first month i had it. my bike before this had a slipper clutch standard, so im used to having one. now that i know i dont have one it hasnt happened since. i am pretty sure cbr400rr can get me one for the 929...

CBR929RE · 03-24-2009, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakey1378

ive only hopped the rear wheel downshifting twice. it was in the first month i had it. my bike before this had a slipper clutch standard, so im used to having one. now that i know i dont have one it hasnt happened since. i am pretty sure cbr400rr can get me one for the 929...

spend the money on track days, you'll get more fun from them than you will a slipper clutch

HondaGalToo · 03-24-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

spend the money on track days, you'll get more fun from them than you will a slipper clutch

shakey1378 · 03-24-2009, 11:58 PM

oh i plan on spending lots of $$$ on track days. ive decided to buy all my gear first, im really focused on getting the best safety kit i can afford. next step would be set-up my bike or buy a used middleweight sportbike just for track use. then its school time etc...

my whole approach to track riding is to take my time.

HondaGalToo · 03-25-2009, 9:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakey1378

oh i plan on spending lots of $$$ on track days. ive decided to buy all my gear first, im really focused on getting the best safety kit i can afford. next step would be set-up my bike or buy a used middleweight sportbike just for track use. then its school time etc...

my whole approach to track riding is to take my time.

Sooooo, are you gonna get out there this season or what?

Get the gear, that's important. Not much to do to set up your bike. Basic trackday prep...mirrors removed, lights taped, disable brake light. Make sure all fasteners are tight (especially the oil plug!!) I can tell you which fuses to pull, easy on the 929. As far as suspension set up, if you've been riding the bike and are comfortable, it will be fine for your first day. The Control Riders at NESBA would also be glad to help you set sag if you ask.
Other additional thing that would be advisable is to replace the anti-freeze with distilled water + water wetter, although that's not required in the beginner group.

Heck, if you want to give it a try for free, NESBA has intro classes. Very minimal bike prep, you don't even have to take the mirrors off...they give you two 20 min sessions in the morning, following a control rider. Of course, then you'll want to stay the whole day, LOL. I'll be at NJMP on May 16/17 with NESBA on the Lightning course if you're ineterested in signing up, or just coming by to spectate.

CBR929RE · 03-26-2009, 4:02 PM

the 2009 Roadracing World Trackday Directory should be no news stands now, I just got mine in the mail yesterday. Its solely filled with info pertaining to track days. Probably be able to find it at Borders, Barnes and Noble or maybe your local dealer might have it.

Lobsta13 · 04-23-2009, 11:19 PM

Definitely do the track day. Once you hit the track, riding fast on the street loses a lot of appeal. You'll find yourself leaning further and going faster than you thought you could. It's a blast!!!
I'm hitting Mid Ohio this weekend!