[Baketech]

[TGZ13]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I think it's very common as race fans to forget what a racer is to their employer, a walking billboard.

CE is a marketing guy for Honda. CE's job is to sell more bikes, and that doesn't necessarily mean winning races. Miguel is a great example, he doesn't win much anymore, but he is an outstanding asset to Honda.

By saying Honda is messed up, CE does not help them sell motorcycles and is therefore underperforming in his job.

Very good point

[deez]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Dream on....

I was referring to Rossi and HRC not wanting to meet in the middle. And yes it will come back to bite them in the ass this year, as Rossi will take the championship. Rossi also said recently that he will stay @ 'Yamaka' the rest of his GP career. HRC is fooked.

[deez]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

I think it's very common as race fans to forget what a racer is to their employer, a walking billboard.

CE is a marketing guy for Honda. CE's job is to sell more bikes, and that doesn't necessarily mean winning races. Miguel is a great example, he doesn't win much anymore, but he is an outstanding asset to Honda.

By saying Honda is messed up, CE does not help them sell motorcycles and is therefore underperforming in his job.

I kind of agree with you, but not 100 percent. Yeah part of the job is to sell bikes, very much so, the other part is to win. I find this very interesting...
If Miguel didn't finish close to the front, well let's say he was constantly like 8th or 9th in the points at the end of each season, then he'd be shitcanned in favor of someone else. Selling bikes isn't the only reason they are there.

[929_Nupe]

Originally Posted by booth23

If Miguel didn't finish close to the front, well let's say he was constantly like 8th or 9th in the points at the end of each season, then he'd be shitcanned in favor of someone else. Selling bikes isn't the only reason they are there.

very true but he's also a honda icon

[deez]

In England maybe, but never here in the states. IMHO, only certain riders are hyped up and sold to the public for selling motorcycles. Nicky Hayden being the one I can think of the quickest That is why he got the ride in the first place. With every factory it's different, and with each rider different. There are certain riders who will have a **** season but remained employed despite how many bikes they wreck or how lackluster their seasons are. Others are shitcanned quicker than hell for not producing the results.

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by booth23

There are certain riders who will have a **** season but remained employed despite how many bikes they wreck or how lackluster their seasons are. Others are shitcanned quicker than hell for not producing the results.

As Jules would say...."Example?"

[QuikMike]

Originally Posted by Baketech

As Jules would say...."Example?"

Aaron Yates comes to mind...the guy has done absolutely nothing but hold Mladin's jock strap in AMA SBK, yet his still has a factory ride??? It'll be interesting to see what happens with him next year, but he has been an absolutely unmitigated disaster for Suzuki this year...he did win the SS title a few years back, but what has done in SBK?...give the ride to someone who deserves it....i.e Ben Spies or Geoff May or someone like that IMHO....

[jaim]

[Heavy-Dee]

Originally Posted by QuikMike

give the ride to someone who deserves it....i.e Ben Spies or Geoff May or someone like that IMHO....

I'd love to see that!!!

[deez]

Originally Posted by Baketech

As Jules would say...."Example?"

Xaus.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by Baketech

Good post Booth....
While I don't agree with all of it, I respect your allegiance...

Personally, I think when CE put the Superbike forks on the RCV he cut himself out of the "new parts" loop. I said it then, and I still believe it.

At that point, they decided he was more interested in racing for himself than developing the bike for the team. Engineers are funny that way, especially Japanese engineers. (No racial stereotype intended.) Like many of you, I've worked with Japanese engineers...and they are very focused on success, with little tolerance for an individual that they "feel" is operating contrary to the overall good of the organization......

This brings up an interesting comparison. In the early 70s' Maico was in the unique position of humiliating several larger factories due primarily to the talent and perserverance of a young Swedish rider named Ake Jonsson. Although Willi Bauer was the number one rider in the world GPs (because like the company, he was German), it was no secret that Ake was faster. I think it was 1972 when Ake was about to take the championship in the final race of the season, a short threaded spark plug actually backed out on the last lap and Suzuki mounted Joel Robert took the win and the title (I am somewhat foggy on who actually won that year, but do know that Jonsson finished second).

At any rate, Yamaha was anxious to get into the mix (as Suzuki and Honda were making serious inroads on the European dominance of the premier class), they made Ake an offer he couldn't refuse that was reported as being 3 times what Suzuki was paying Robert at the time. During testing of the YZ, Jonsson was essentially lost on the new bike and began piecing together a hybrid "Yamaico" including changing the frame rake and using a set of Maico leading axle forks in an attempt to get the thing to turn along with forward mounted shocks ala Maico's Adolph Weil special. His career basically went downhill on this new bike, as Yamaha disowned his efforts and subsequently bailed on an further development of his equipment as long as he publicly complained about the Yamaha and it's handling.

Maybe it's deja vu all over again . . .

[Hamburgler]

How come everyone is being so hard on CE for being 4th in MOTOGP? If I could say Rossi, Biaggi, and Gibernau were the only current riders better than me, I would think I am a little better than "average".

[motojedi]

I heard CE will be on a 'blade 1k in WSB next year on an all new team.

[Bacchus]

Sook, I always had my own opinion of you after about your first 3 posts: 1)egocentric (way!), 2) not quite as intelligent as you give yourself credit for, 3) biased, 4) well, just plain full of sh!t. This thread has pretty much cemented those feelings for me. I have not, nor probably ever will, own and operate my own business. But guess what?! I do know the meaning of tact, customer relationships, and basic PR. Dude, you'd better turn your act around about 180 degrees, or you'll be one of the guys we see here in the States selling newspapers on a street corner. Please do consider this constructive criticism...

P.S. - in your defense, perhaps you posted such inflammatory comments after consuming 2, maybe 3, bottles of good port.

[deez]

Originally Posted by Bacchus

Sook, I always had my own opinion of you after about your first 3 posts: 1)egocentric (way!), 2) not quite as intelligent as you give yourself credit for, 3) biased, 4) well, just plain full of sh!t. This thread has pretty much cemented those feelings for me. I have not, nor probably ever will, own and operate my own business. But guess what?! I do know the meaning of tact, customer relationships, and basic PR. Dude, you'd better turn your act around about 180 degrees, or you'll be one of the guys we see here in the States selling newspapers on a street corner. Please do consider this constructive criticism...

P.S. - in your defense, perhaps you posted such inflammatory comments after consuming 2, maybe 3, bottles of good port.

Nahhh, I think it's the usual 'club' of dickheads that caused it

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by booth23

Nahhh, I think it's the usual 'club' of dickheads that caused it

LOL...more blame and excuses....

Actually this thread was a a good bench racing session until sook started ranting and name calling....

[deez]

Originally Posted by Baketech

LOL...more blame and excuses....

Lighten up Francis


Frank, I don't think the situation you described from the 70's is even close. He hasn't called the bike a POS or anything else, just the front end chatter business. Hell, there was an article not too long ago where he mentioned that when the street V5 comes out, he wants one. He loves the engine, just not the chatter I guess

[abtech]

Originally Posted by booth23

Lighten up Francis


Frank, I don't think the situation you described from the 70's is even close. He hasn't called the bike a POS or anything else, just the front end chatter business. Hell, there was an article not too long ago where he mentioned that when the street V5 comes out, he wants one. He loves the engine, just not the chatter I guess

It was when Edwards changed the forks (a step backwards according to the Honda people) that makes the comparison valid. Ake never actually badmouthed the Yamaha, rather he said it was a great bike, but he had to modify it to suit his riding style. At that time, Yamaha wasn't used to people telling them how to do things (another personal story entirely) and so his career was finished by the end of his first season with Yamaha.

[deez]

Originally Posted by abtech

It was when Edwards changed the forks (a step backwards according to the Honda people) that makes the comparison valid. Ake never actually badmouthed the Yamaha, rather he said it was a great bike, but he had to modify it to suit his riding style. At that time, Yamaha wasn't used to people telling them how to do things (another personal story entirely) and so his career was finished by the end of his first season with Yamaha.

Well in your story, were there parts available to him from Yamaha that would take care of what he needed? Because in this situation, there is a chassis already built and being used, he just can't get one.....

he went to those forks in desperation to solve it as HRC isn't giving him anymore parts.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by booth23

Well in your story, were there parts available to him from Yamaha that would take care of what he needed? Because in this situation, there is a chassis already built and being used, he just can't get one.....

he went to those forks in desperation to solve it as HRC isn't giving him anymore parts.

Yamaha told him that they had "perfected" the geometry and that having the headstock rewelded and putting on "long travel" leading axle forks was totally "not right". Back then, Yamaha had the idea that street bike rake and trail figures were what was required, while the Maico's had quite steep rake with middle of the road trail figures (because of the leading axle configuration). The offset was also quite different and the early YZ's were great for left turn 1/2 mile venues, but took quite a bit of effort to turn in on a motocross track from that period. It was truly a case of the factory dictating the setup, and world champion class rider or not, they were humiliated in light of Suzuki's success running a "stock" factory setup

In Suzuki's case, Robert fit the machine as delivered pretty well, as it was pretty much a clone of the CZ he had been running for several years, while Yamaha paid big bucks to a California based desert bike builder (Neil Fergus) to develop their motocross platform. As an interesting sidenote to this story, according to Fergus, Yamaha threw his finished design into the wastebasket, as he butted heads with their marketing department over ride height when his finished prototype was nearly 2" lower than the Husqvarna which was the standard they were looking towards. They felt it didn't look "dirty" enough and went to a very conservative street based geometry package with a ton of ride height (and ground clearance, as that is what they thought people wanted).

I wonder if the marketing people at Yamaha are still there . . .

[CBRVFR]

Originally Posted by abtech

I wonder if the marketing people at Yamaha are still there . . .

I'm pretty sure they're the ones that were plugging the "Pacifica" solidbody electric guitar line....

[The Sook]

OK, first off, let me say ..........sorry if I come accross as the type of person you explained. I am NOT like that at all, but perceptions are reality, so.....................anyway, I didn't "name drop" Colin for the reason of saying "I'm good, I know Col" , it was to say that while you guys, and pretty much every other site, go on and on about this guyon this bike, and that guy on that bike, you don't really know what REALLY goes on. Hey, I don't know EVERYTHING either, and what I DO, shocked piss out of me. One thing I AM, is passionate about who I support, what I sell etc etc, that may come across as being self opinionated or whatever, but at the end of the day, that I get passionate about what I do and sell, is what KEEPS me in business, coz you can go to ANY bike shop where the guy doesn't give a toss..........I DO give a toss. You may not like what I tell you, but you KNOW it's really what I THINK, not what you WANT to hear. ANYWAY, I digress.

Yeah, it's easy for everyone to jump on the " You know Cols brothers hairdressers etc etc" bandwagon, but.................look , forget it, the more I say on THAT subject the more I'm gonna appear to be name dropping etc,. So , whatever. You guys know everything, Rossi is king, and Honda give Colin everything he needs , it's just that he's got nuthin', and doesn't deserve to be in G.P.

Just so you know Fausto PAYS for the parts they get, and as Colin is a preferred Honda rider, refuses to pay Honda for his parts. Sete is NOT a preferred Honda rider and so Fausto pays.........BUT Honda refuse to give Colin the parts withouth Fausto paying for them. Any idea's how much a new RCV chassis sells for? Col's getting reamed hard and there's jack he can do about it.

Baketech, I got to be where I am by being who I am and being passionate about it, not by being how you or anyone else told me to be. So forgive me if your comments go in one ear and out the other. And why am I ranting coz I'm defending Colin, but you can smash him all around the site, but that's just fun? whatever.

On a more positive note, apparently Michelin have tested some new tyres with Colin and he says they're better, and that Motegi will hopefully be a better race. I've heard all this before , but here's hoping.