[Red Rider]

If it was one of us we'd probably get ticketed and have the bike impounded...

Roadracing World

[The Sook]

Like I said on the ceracing forum. BAN them for the year. They should di it to anyone found cheating of anything. That'd stop the rest of them cheating right away. You'd only have to do it once or twice, and that'd be it. We lost the 03 Extreme championship to a bike that was caught cheating at the 3rd last round with illegal engine work. The thing was at the next round faster than it was before. And they still won the championship. WRONG. Fuk 'em. Ban them and let the rest fight it out fair.
Not that I let **** like this get to me. haha

[Getsome]

Originally Posted by The Sook

Like I said on the ceracing forum. BAN them for the year. They should di it to anyone found cheating of anything. That'd stop the rest of them cheating right away. You'd only have to do it once or twice, and that'd be it. We lost the 03 Extreme championship to a bike that was caught cheating at the 3rd last round with illegal engine work. The thing was at the next round faster than it was before. And they still won the championship. WRONG. Fuk 'em. Ban them and let the rest fight it out fair.
Not that I let **** like this get to me. haha

Do I detect a little tension there? Lol...

But I do agree that they should receive something more than that.... a lousy grand a piece.. They could continue to do it all season and not worry about losing much.

[G-Force Junkie]

It would be worth taking the fines and be able to run a custom frame.

[tigerblade]

There's cheating in racing?! No way!

[ccwilli3]

point loses would have meant more than a fine...

That hits the factory, the riders and the team. Fines are just that, fines... That tells everyone, hey, if you've got a nice cool part you wanna run, $1000 says you can use it.

[bubba]

wonder if they bought them off of ebay?

[NinerPilot]

That sucks that Spies was in on it. I wonder how much knowledge the riders had of it. Yates, I dont give a rats ass about that drop kicking numbnuts, but Spies seems to be a great kid both on and off the track.
Chris

[CBR929RE]

My only problem with a bigger fine would be if one of the privateers was caught for the same violation. What if they charged these 2 $10k, then they would have to charge the same to anyone else who does it and those privateers just can't afford something like that (I doubt they'd even have a bike without a VIN anyway but its the idea). Taking away points or banning them for some length of time I think would have made more sense.

[tigerblade]

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

My only problem with a bigger fine would be if one of the privateers was caught for the same violation. What if they charged these 2 $10k, then they would have to charge the same to anyone else who does it and those privateers just can't afford something like that (I doubt they'd even have a bike without a VIN anyway but its the idea). Taking away points or banning them for some length of time I think would have made more sense.

I agree on that. Fines don't work because a given $$$ amount for one rider isn't the same for another, relatively speaking. I say dock points; it's the only fair punishment.

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

My only problem with a bigger fine would be if one of the privateers was caught for the same violation. What if they charged these 2 $10k, then they would have to charge the same to anyone else who does it and those privateers just can't afford something like that (I doubt they'd even have a bike without a VIN anyway but its the idea).

I completely disagree with this logic.

I get what you're saying, and on the surface it makes sense, but so what? They were caught cheating. I say too ****ing bad if the privateer is caught. Shoulda known better.

Get caught, pay the price. Can't afford it? So long.......................


I say git 'em with the fines AND the points!!

[tigerblade]

Originally Posted by Mo Noyz

I completely disagree with this logic.

I get what you're saying, and on the surface it makes sense, but so what? They were caught cheating. I say too ****ing bad if the privateer is caught. Shoulda known better.

Get caught, pay the price. Can't afford it? So long.......................


I say git 'em with the fines AND the points!!

A lot of privateers can barely afford gas money to the next race, much less a $10K fine. A monetary fine of a set dollar amount can't be equal punishment for both a shoestring-budget privateer and someone racing for Yoshimura Suzuki. Taking points is much more equitable and is more of a deterrent than a fine IMHO.

[nhfirefighter13]

Cut off a hand. That's fair and equal.

[rawrider]

The fine seems to be more justified now.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=22268

[abtech]

Originally Posted by rawrider

The fine seems to be more justified now.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/...?article=22268

The only problem with that article is that most AMA inspectors couldn't tell the difference between a stock piece and a turbocharged engine if it bit them in the ass. Their means of "determination" usually boils down to someone else raising a big enough stink about such and such's equipment.

And in regards to the comment about the lowly privateers: I seriously doubt that if they can barely afford the gas money for the next event, that they could afford "pre-production" frames or other parts.

Either you enforce the rules the same for everyone or you drop the rules. It's got to be that simple to be fair.

[tigerblade]

Originally Posted by abtech

And in regards to the comment about the lowly privateers: I seriously doubt that if they can barely afford the gas money for the next event, that they could afford "pre-production" frames or other parts.

Either you enforce the rules the same for everyone or you drop the rules. It's got to be that simple to be fair.

I guess I'm basing my comments on having a set fine for doing something outside the rules with no points assessed. You could also theoretically cheat without spending big bucks to do it. I just don't see a set dollar amount of fine to carry the same weight, depending on who you're fining. If you lined out certain monetary penalties for certain infractions like "using a pre-production frame will get you a $15K fine" then no, the privateer isn't likely to ever break that rule in the first place. Other illegal mods, however, could be peformed by the privateer for a much lesser cost. As long as points are included, charge what you may. But let's say you just set a fine of $X for an infraction. A factory team might happily "bend the rules", knowing if they do get caught, the points were worth said fine.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by tigerblade

I guess I'm basing my comments on having a set fine for doing something outside the rules with no points assessed. You could also theoretically cheat without spending big bucks to do it. I just don't see a set dollar amount of fine to carry the same weight, depending on who you're fining. If you lined out certain monetary penalties for certain infractions like "using a pre-production frame will get you a $15K fine" then no, the privateer isn't likely to ever break that rule in the first place. Other illegal mods, however, could be peformed by the privateer for a much lesser cost. As long as points are included, charge what you may. But let's say you just set a fine of $X for an infraction. A factory team might happily "bend the rules", knowing if they do get caught, the points were worth said fine.

I believe the combo of a severe points penalty, public announcement and reasonably priced claiming rules would eliminate all cheating. If the factory teams knew that their "slightly illegal one of a kind" bike could be claimed for 10K in the event it was found outside the rules, then maybe they would give it a second thought. I'm not talking claiming legal bikes, as that has proven to hinder technical innovation (why develop a superior product if Joe Blow can claim it at the next race?). I doubt any privateer bikes would be claimed by the factory teams and if a loss of 50 points hovered over an infraction then everyone would give it some serious thought.

Like several people have stated, a 1K "premium" for breaking the rules makes no sense at all. Then it's just a case of which team cheats the most.

[Mo Noyz]

Originally Posted by tigerblade

A lot of privateers can barely afford gas money to the next race, much less a $10K fine.

Too bad.

As I said, you cheat, you get caught, you pay.

It's really that simple. If you can't afford the possible ramifications of being caught, it might be in your best interest to skip it altogether.

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by tigerblade

<snip>Other illegal mods, however, could be peformed by the privateer for a much lesser cost. As long as points are included, charge what you may. But let's say you just set a fine of $X for an infraction. A factory team might happily "bend the rules", knowing if they do get caught, the points were worth said fine.

thats exactly what I was getting at. Its just like how much money do the factory teams have? Its just not fair to charge some rediculous amount (assuming they would fine everyone the same amount). I think taking away points is a much bigger detterent. Lets face it the factory guys are the ones getting mot of the points anyway and they have the most money. It doesn't hurt them to lose whats relatively a small amount of money to them but if they lost points that could really hurt them. Remember its easy to cheat and anyone can do it. Most of these privateers are doing it because they love to ride/race and some are looking for factory sponsorship. Why hold them back?

[The Sook]

"Cut off a hand. That's fair and equal."

I am laughing my self silly at that comment. It's way too funny, BUT it would only be fair if they STOLE the bike. Well, according to the religion that "law" originates from it would anyway. But love ya work.

[Cowboy]

They got popped on a technicality, big deal. That's why the fine was a joke. If they were running an illegal performance enhancing mod you can bet the penalty would have been much higher. True, the factory teams that are chasing a championship value their points a lot more than a little money but for a privateer (particularly the ones that only run local events, not the whole circuit) probably couldn't care less about points. It's all about looking good for that one race and hopefully being noticed by someone important. "Take my points, but next year I'll be on a satillite team".

[abtech]

Originally Posted by Cowboy

They got popped on a technicality, big deal. That's why the fine was a joke. If they were running an illegal performance enhancing mod you can bet the penalty would have been much higher. True, the factory teams that are chasing a championship value their points a lot more than a little money but for a privateer (particularly the ones that only run local events, not the whole circuit) probably couldn't care less about points. It's all about looking good for that one race and hopefully being noticed by someone important. "Take my points, but next year I'll be on a satillite team".

Technicality? That is exactly why I made the comment about the AMA inspectors. I have seen them tear an engine down to the crankshaft and declare it legal when it was obvious to everyone there that the cams, heads, valves and trans where in fact NOT LEGAL. I have seen the opposite as well, where they found a motor illegal for polishing the inside of the carbs (with steel wool, not removing any material or changing the size or shape) even though there was no mention of this in the rules for the particular class.

These "pre production" frames will probably never exactly match anything sold at retail. I've seen this exact thing before with the 998s before they were shipped.