[phozed]

speed link

agreed with lots of it! Also like his rider talent level evaluations - and think he's dead on in his predictions w/Hayden. I disagreed with his WSBK thoughts - as it's been stated already, there isn't really a spec tire...

[ondablade]

I'm in the same space on most of the data, but I'm not entirely sure I'm as optimistic on the prognosis for WSB.
I was certainly less optimistic about the prospects of a private team and control tyre based WSB maintaining the appeal of years gone by in my spiel on the other thread - my sense is that it just will not have the cachet needed to capture the popular imagination.
He could be right though. Moto GP certainly has some clouds on the horizon which could start bumping things back towards WSB next year - namely the facts that (a) all of the teams are struggling to compete with Honda (with the honourable exception of Ducati who still have a bit to go though), (b) that all are struggling with the unforeseen enormity of the costs and the technical challenges and © that tightened economic circumstances have tightened budgets. KTM have for example suspended their Moto GP project on grounds of unexpected cost and difficulty.
It's for example not out of the question that we could end up with another period of one rider Honda domination like Doohan in the 90s which would see rapid loss of spectator interest, and an exodus of teams like Kawasaki, Suzuki and maybe Yamaha back to WSB with their tails betwen their legs. You could even see Roberts for example go bust if Proton get cold feet I imagine.
A lot hangs on whether these teams can become competitive, as the novelty and appeal of four stroke GP bikes which has driven much of the interest this year and last will quickly wear thin without good racing. The other problem is that it's not like you can easily tweak the rules to help the others in a purist prototype only class like Moto GP. (you could ban the traction control and sophisticated engine management systems which seem to be the core of the issue, but this would probably make 230hp a liability and leave the bikes no faster than WSB)
I'm less negative than some about control tyres in WSB. Yes the big teams will still get some special treatment (Pirelli is Italian and so is unlikely to play it straight down the line) but the realpolitik is that it surely can't be any worse than the gulf between the teams on Michelin and Dunlop's best today and the rest.

[deez]

Great article and Dennis provides some excellent feedback and I believe he is spot on in regards to his rider evaluations.

'Sete is not unbeatable either, but one of several riders of outstanding ability and maturity who, given an RC211V and the best Michelins and with the back-up of an elite technical crew, like the one assembled by Fausto Gresini, is capable of winning at MotoGP level. Kenny Roberts Junior, at present depressed and discouraged by life on the underperforming Suzuki, would run at the front with a works Honda. So would Barros, now badly beaten up by trying to push his reluctant Yamaha M1 into Honda and Ducati lap times.

So would Colin Edwards, one of the best riders in the world. But he, instead, is having his confidence undermined by having to turn out week after week on an Aprilia that either runs on when he shuts the throttle, gives little feedback through the bars or, as in Germany, goes off like a roman candle, forcing him to eject at 200 kilometers per hour like a fighter pilot with a flame-out. Give Colin at RC211V on Michelin and he’s Sete’s nightmare.'

I'd very much like to see Nicky come about, Colin on = machinery, Kenny jr on = equipment, and Ducati matching Honda in bike performance. *This would make some unreal racing, the best I have ever seen. *I think the king is still Rossi, he has some more learning to do, as he hasn't had this kind of challenge in quite some time. *But I think Rossi, Gibernau, Capirossi, Barros, Edwards, Roberts Jr, Bayliss, and Max Biaatchi are all capable of wins and the championship if they have a great bike underneath them, the best Michelin has to offer, and a good team. *Then there is Nicky and the Hopper if they could get up there, wow! *I can't stand Roberts Jr. but I still think he is a great rider and capable of wins on good machinery. *However Onda is very much correct, Ducati is a racing firm and Honda has the $, the economics of the world currently prevent the other mfr's from really getting something going. *They've blown their wad on their bikes, and are in serious need of continued development, new engine (perhaps new engine configs), new chassis etc to stay competitive. *And damn I hate seeing my favorite rider f*cked riding the POS cube. *Like Dennis stated, nobody would have beaten Xaus at Laguna. *After last year of seeing Colin and Troy battle it out, tooth and nail, they are both capable of being MotoGp champions. *The journalists saying that WSBK regulars couldn't do well in GP have been proven wrong with the 4strokes.

Edit: Oh yeah, Valentino must fall for any of them to win anything. He is good enough that I don't think any rider can beat him in GP, you just have to hope that you can put enough pressure on him to make him make a mistake. I haven't seen anyone beat him, he beats himself. After seeing him run off the track, come back and bust the lap record consecutively, I'd have to say that he is unmatched in riding ability, he just has to learn how to eliminate mistakes and stay focused. He has already achieved so much at an early age.

[abtech]

ondablade : I'm in the same space on most of the data, but I'm not entirely sure I'm as optimistic on the prognosis for WSB.
I was certainly less optimistic about the prospects of a private team and control tyre based WSB maintaining the appeal of years gone by in my spiel on the other thread - my sense is that it just will not have the cachet needed to capture the popular imagination.
He could be right though. Moto GP certainly has some clouds on the horizon which could start bumping things back towards WSB next year - namely the facts that (a) all of the teams are struggling to compete with Honda (with the honourable exception of Ducati who still have a bit to go though), (b) that all are struggling with the unforeseen enormity of the costs and the technical challenges and © that tightened economic circumstances have tightened budgets. KTM have for example suspended their Moto GP project on grounds of unexpected cost and difficulty.
It's for example not out of the question that we could end up with another period of one rider Honda domination like Doohan in the 90s which would see rapid loss of spectator interest, and an exodus of teams like Kawasaki, Suzuki and maybe Yamaha back to WSB with their tails betwen their legs. You could even see Roberts for example go bust if Proton get cold feet I imagine.
A lot hangs on whether these teams can become competitive, as the novelty and appeal of four stroke GP bikes which has driven much of the interest this year and last will quickly wear thin without good racing. The other problem is that it's not like you can easily tweak the rules to help the others in a purist prototype only class like Moto GP. (you could ban the traction control and sophisticated engine management systems which seem to be the core of the issue, but this would probably make 230hp a liability and leave the bikes no faster than WSB)
I'm less negative than some about control tyres in WSB. Yes the big teams will still get some special treatment (Pirelli is Italian and so is unlikely to play it straight down the line) but the realpolitik is that it surely can't be any worse than the gulf between the teams on Michelin and Dunlop's best today and the rest.

Pirelli is not Italian. They are owned by Metzeler (a German GMBH) and manufacture nothing. The Pirelli and Metzeler tires come off the same manufacturing lines at the same plants and are only labeled for product loyalty reasons. Don't be mistaken, these are all German tires (albeit with a lot of Italian funding . . .).

[ondablade]

I know of the connection Abtech, but as far as I know they they still have sizeable clout in Italy

[abtech]

Clout? maybe . . . but just like most of the American manufacturers who have sold out to the Germans, they really have little or no say in what happens from a technical or marketing standpoint.

BTW, it's not a connection. Metzeler bought Pirelli outright and replaced EVERY key technical, sales and marketing person with Metzeler personnel.

[ondablade]

I can't argue as I'm short of hard facts. I'd be surprised if Metzler managed to 'exterminate' the Italian dimension at Pirelli though - it was a very large organisation indeed.

[Purpdust]

Ok, so they chagne the Tyre rules to have a standard tyre to make an equal playing field, (IMO they should only allow then to run over the counter tyres that are availible tot he public.)

What is next, They all have to use the same suspension because the privateers cannot afford full Ohlins Superbike fits

Then after that they issue a control motor,

Then a full control bike with only the badge changed

Then change your the name to NASCAR Super Bike series and race on ovals


ok i am being a little synical, but hear is what I think

The fact that Kawi and Suzi are not competitive in MotoGP is there fault, they should step up there development as Handa and Duc have done.

If a Team is not running well on Dunlops or Bridgies maybe they should conciter a change to the big M until those factories can come up with a competitive tyre.

Oh well I hope everything works out for WSBK