[DUX]

Interesting read on how Buell is bending the rules. I like the RC-51 "fix" at the end.

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2006/Feb/060229omo.htm

[CBRVFR]

The AMA is doing nothing to make me want to join or support them in any way.

[Hammer]

This is simple: Harley/Buell shoved more money to the AMA than Honda, Kawi, Suzuki or Yamaha. They hold the check book and they get to bend what rules they need to.

I think every racer should boycott the race and just sit on the starting grid and not move.

[Heavy-Dee]

Originally Posted by Hammer

This is simple: Harley/Buell shoved more money to the AMA than Honda, Kawi, Suzuki or Yamaha. They hold the check book and they get to bend what rules they need to.

I think every racer should boycott the race and just sit on the starting grid and not move.

Yea in a perfect world. Thing is they need to do it before the Buell starts winning. Wait. Can the Buell actually contend? Remember Harley's superbike effort? I don't, but I've heard of it.

HD

[Baketech]

Originally Posted by Heavy-Dee

Remember Harley's superbike effort? I don't, but I've heard of it.
HD

I remember when Miguel went by...you frickin' knew it...

[ReaperAZ]

Would be pretty funny to see an RC bored out and beating the everliving crap out of them Buells

[luvtolean]

Heh, I personally love situations like this.

Read between the lines in the book. Was this guy bitching when the twins started mugging the 750's because of favorable rules? (proving this is why the RC even exists!)

And I totally disagree that the Mercedes push rod motors were a disaster, quite the opposite. That's racing, and being creative. People only whine because another mechanic/team's creativity and drive has left them a generation behind.

[CBRVFR]

Originally Posted by Hammer

This is simple: Harley/Buell shoved more money to the AMA than Honda, Kawi, Suzuki or Yamaha. They hold the check book and they get to bend what rules they need to.

I think every racer should boycott the race and just sit on the starting grid and not move.

I cannot believe that Harley has that much cash, since you're talking about the combined economic might of the Japanese and Euro brands that have provided all the exciting racing in the AMA for the last couple of decades. Maybe they're counting on the increased interest and attendance of the local 'fans' in future years if a Harley wins, or even contends..

I don't believe that Buell will win under any circumstances. Remember when Mladin beat the Hondas a few years ago on a slower bike (750 vs 954, if I remember correctly) using pit strategy and tire management? There's some cagey and experienced factory teams competing for bragging and advertising rights. If they really thought they might lose, they'd pull out in a heartbeat. You watch.

And not moving on the starting grid is NOT a good idea. Ask Scott Russell.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

And not moving on the starting grid is NOT a good idea.

Any racer that does something that shady deserves a 1 year competition ban.

Sit it out if you want, but don't sit on the line endangering the lives of your fellow racers.

[Baketech]

This is a fubar'd situation for sure, but you don't have to be very imaginative to see the motivation behind it. (no matter how misguided it might be)

They want butts in the seats...case closed. My guess is that they think a "Harley" at Daytona would go a long way toward attracting people to the venue.

As motorcyclists, we do a shitty job of supporting pro racing here in the US, so they have to look at strategies to widen their audience. Although in this case their zeal is probably going to work against them...

[BDA116]

Yep, even if they are DQ'd at Daytona and deemed illegal the rest of the year they will have attracted plenty of attention at Bike Week, where the vast majority of people are Harley riders/fans, and don't give two ****s about the racing.
Get a Harley in the race, and a controversial one at that and you will sell more tickets. You will also generate more buzz by pissing off Jap-brand hating Harley types when you tell them it was the Jap-brands that got the Harley DQ'd.
More seats, more press, more buzz. Of course they're gonna let the thing race.

But on that note, I don't think it is a legal bike. It's not completely like the Penske engine situation or Honda going twin, as those were both products of careful rulebook scrutiny and building within all the outlined specs - if just barely.
Buell did a bad job of reading the book and went outside the lines in too many places.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Buell did a bad job of reading the book and went outside the lines in too many places.

If I read that article right, the problem is the AMA has contradictory rules...and Buell is using this to his advantage.

Because this rule requires that the engine be originally produced for street use and the Buell XBRR features an engine that was originally manufactured for racing, the Buell is illegal, they say.
Not so according to Buell—look at rule C3: "Twin-cylinder air-cooled motorcycles: Engine modifications are unlimited."
Given the conflict in rules, which rule applies?
In the AMA's February 10 press release the AMA apparently felt that rule C3 trumps E2h1. I disagree.

The problem with doing this, is if by some miracle the Buell went out and did well, they'd end up banned.

The air/oil cooled issue, that seems more damning of Buell.

[BDA116]

The engine mods are unlimited, but it still all has to be based off a model available for street sale by the dealership channel. The engine is based off one model, the chassis another, but not together as a model sold for street.
So it doesn't meet the initial basics. Then there are too many grey area issues and of course that oil cooler.

Whatever happens, there are gonna be more AMA rule changes this year for sure.

[luvtolean]

Originally Posted by BDA116

The engine mods are unlimited, but it still all has to be based off a model available for street sale by the dealership channel. The engine is based off one model, the chassis another, but not together as a model sold for street.

Right, but both are offered for sale. That bike is more legal than the VR1000 IMO.

Like I said, Eric was creative with the rules. If he's successful, the rules will change real quick. If not, next year they'll be shored up. (Maybe, this is the AMA afterall...)

[phobiaphobe]

Doesn't it seem dumb to use the word "unlimited" in your rules? That's just a free license for kinks and scheisters.

[BDA116]

I like the unlimited thing.
I'd like the FX rules to state:
a) The bike must be based on a single model for sale through dealers for street use, not chassis from one and engine from another.
b) Maximum engine displacement 650cc for inline four cylinder four stroke bikes (and whatever displacement categories and figures they deem need to be there).
c) Have fun.

[luvtolean]

That's basically how Indy used to be...when it was the greatest race in the US..."a Skinny 'lil Rulebook"

[luvtolean]

By the way, the large manufacturer's would never allow such an open rule book.

It creates the distinct possibility some real smart guy could come along, dream up something wild, build it on the cheap, and kick their ass.

The more rules in the rulebook, the more you guarantee the people at the top of the game stay there.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by BDA116

I like the unlimited thing.
I'd like the FX rules to state:
a) The bike must be based on a single model for sale through dealers for street use, not chassis from one and engine from another.
b) Maximum engine displacement 650cc for inline four cylinder four stroke bikes (and whatever displacement categories and figures they deem need to be there).
c) Have fun.

Exactly. I find the spec classes promote the most "bending" of the rules. In the GP classes they had absolute displacement limits and other than that, it had to be race worthy. If someone wants to come in and throw a few hundred thousand at the state of the art, let them and maybe next year more people will and a new class will emerge. For most people, taking an already fast and proven platform and making it really faster is just too expensive, so the class ends up being pretty even after the smoke clears.

[Baketech]

So where's it going...more sackings, resignations and withdrawals....or will their application of the Nascar marketing model gain ground....

[colryn]

Damn,
I thought this thread was going to be about who will be attending next week's race. Whatever the case, I there rain or shine...

[Gecko5]

Originally Posted by luvtolean

If I read that article right, the problem is the AMA has contradictory rules...and Buell is using this to his advantage.

Agreed, maybe the AMA's new organization of "Racing" or "Rules" committee will have to start by fixing this issue.

Anyway, I found the article in