going racing - build from scratch...

jjj0923 · 06-06-2006, 7:58 AM

hello folks - this is my first post in this forum. I've been active in the RC51 area since recently buying one.

A friend of mine stopped over the house last night to take a look at my RC51. I used to race a Ducati 916 in the mid to late 90's and qualified for and raced in the Daytona 200 in 97 and 98 in addition to a lot of CCS racing on my way to getting my AMA Superbike license.

He told me he wanted to start racing. He's been riding for about 6 years.

He started asking me about how I was modding the RC51 and what I had done to my 916 to race it...

In retrospect it strikes me that's it's easier to just build a bike from scratch if you're going to race in Superbike and perhaps even other classes.

When you take a look at the finished product race bike there's very little left that's original.

If I look back at my 916 race bike I can honestly say the only original part on the bike when I sold it in 1999 was the frame. Every other single component had be replaced with a part designed for racing.

thoughts?

smoothrideronli · 06-06-2006, 8:02 AM

What do you mean from scratch? Do you mean purchasing a frame and then adding race parts?

jjj0923 · 06-06-2006, 8:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothrideronli

What do you mean from scratch? Do you mean purchasing a frame and then adding race parts?

yes - that's what I mean - there are so many engines and frames and parts nowadays on ebarf you can easily find all the basics to get started - then buy nice wheels, body work, wiring harness, etc and complete a race bike strictly built fro racing instead of investing in a bike that you're going to rip apart and sell the parts for pennies on the dollar. doesn't seem like a good way to spend your racing dollars.

Baketech · 06-06-2006, 8:10 AM

Damn, heard the words "from scratch" and thought this was going to be a nice fab thread...

ND4SPD · 06-06-2006, 8:11 AM

I would think buying a slightly crashed bike with a straight frame would be a pretty good way. They can usually be had pretty cheap, parted out and the return should pay for the bike and maybe even a couple goodies

jjj0923 · 06-06-2006, 8:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

I would think buying a slightly crashed bike with a straight frame would be a pretty good way. They can usually be had pretty cheap, parted out and the return should pay for the bike and maybe even a couple goodies

why buy someone else's problem and crashed bikes are often tweaked and the only true way to find out if a frame is straight is to have it computracked and that's $400 or so...

let's face it - racing is a money pit. if you want to get racing figure out the cheapest way to do it.

racing parts are expensive and no one gives great deals simply because there's so much compeition there's not a lot of margin for any of the resellers.

I'm a perfect example. I took a $14,500 916 and then invested another $40,000 into it to make it a competitive AMA Superbike. I realize I was the extreme but it's not hard to invest $10k in a used $4k CBR600 is it?

ND4SPD · 06-06-2006, 8:25 AM

It's only $75 to have a bike measured. If it needs straightening, yea, that's a different story.

jjj0923 · 06-06-2006, 8:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

It's only $75 to have a bike measured. If it needs straightening, yea, that's a different story.

thanks for the info - much appreciated!

smoothrideronli · 06-06-2006, 8:55 AM

I dont really know from a racers perspective but I assumed since Superbike is production based and there are limitations to the mods that you can make wouldnt it be easier to just get a bike and then modify or change parts here and there instead of buying a basic frame and build the bike?

gt702 · 06-06-2006, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ND4SPD

I would think buying a slightly crashed bike with a straight frame would be a pretty good way. They can usually be had pretty cheap, parted out and the return should pay for the bike and maybe even a couple goodies

Buy a cosmetically damaged bike, or better yet a nice one from someone who scared themselves (on the street or track) and are willing to take a loss to get it out of the garage, and start from there. Take off all the parts you don't need/want and sell them. Use the money to get what you want. Some bikes will pay for themselves this way (ie. free frame, engine, and swingarm), it just takes a little effort to sell instead of buy. This way you also know the basics of the bike aren't stolen (if you check the VIN).

Much cheaper than buying the individual main parts (people parts them because they get more for the individual pieces), you get to keep all of the little bits that are hard to find, and you save on all of the shipping.

BDA116 · 06-06-2006, 10:56 AM

Like a 6 month old '05 600RR with a straight frame, forks, swingarm and strong engine for $3500?

Red Rider · 06-06-2006, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjj0923

why buy someone else's problem and crashed bikes are often tweaked and the only true way to find out if a frame is straight is to have it computracked and that's $400 or so...

Are you talking for your friend or yourself? You just spent $2200 for new forks on a street bike and yet you're reluctant to pay for a Computrack inspection?

gt702 · 06-06-2006, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDA116

Like a 6 month old '05 600RR with a straight frame, forks, swingarm and strong engine for $3500?

Precisely .... Selling off ... using quick numbers for illustration only:

Wheels: $300 set
rotors: $150 set
forks with triple: $400
subframe: 100
seat: $75
stock body work (good condition, with lights & tank): $1600
pegs: $50
radiator: $100
dash: $75
stock shock: $50
misc. others: $500 (exhaust, wiring, brackets

For a total of $3300 in sold parts .... so you bought the engine, frame, swingarm, and all the parts to make it run, for $200 and a little work. Sounds like a good deal to me.

Edit: Oh yeah, that includes a clean title

BDA116 · 06-06-2006, 11:45 AM

Well, most of the plastic wasn't exactly in good condition, nor was the front wheel. But still, a great deal I thought.

I'm definately not in the build a race bike off the showroom camp, but I have spent a total of just under $7K for my bike as it sits right now by buying someone else's wreck. That is including the price of the bike, shipping to me from CA and all the parts on it - including a set of forged Al wheels. Had it needed some straigtening work, and extra $400 to Computrack wouldn't be affecting my bottom line all that much. That also isn't factoring in the couple hundred in parts I have already sold and a couple hundred more still to go.
I still have a few things left to do, but not when there is available track time.
To have a track/race ready bike that is essentially new - still under 2000 miles - for a couple grand less than someone rides off the lot new is always a good thing.

Besides, where are you going to get a frame to start with anyhow? You can't just go into a dealership and buy one. You can buy replacement frames, but you need your original VIN to do so. And they will cost a grand or so at best for a replacement. If you want to buy an unstamped HRC frame, you're looking at a few more dollars.
Really, if you could buy a rolling chassis with engine, wiring harness, tank and everything else other than bodywork/lights, etc. for $3500 new, I would have done so in a heartbeat.

mikeblade · 06-06-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjj0923

If I look back at my 916 race bike I can honestly say the only original part on the bike when I sold it in 1999 was the frame. Every other single component had be replaced with a part designed for racing.

thoughts?

I agree - I built my racebike (well, I've stopped racing now but I do still Instruct on track) almost entirely from bits on Ebarf, so the majority of the parts I bought were standard - bid low and eventualy you get the right bits at the right price, but it did take me almost 8 months to complete. Race can and fairing were the only brand new major parts, along with a spray job, I reckon the cost for me was around half the cost for an equivelant bike from a dealers, but then I'd still have loads to spend to convert it to track use.

Best bit - riding her!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jjj0923 · 06-06-2006, 3:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Rider

Are you talking for your friend or yourself? You just spent $2200 for new forks on a street bike and yet you're reluctant to pay for a Computrack inspection?

not me - for my friend. my racing days are over - no desire to even get on a track...because I know where it will lead...

CBRVFR · 06-06-2006, 3:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoothrideronli

I dont really know from a racers perspective but I assumed since Superbike is production based and there are limitations to the mods that you can make wouldnt it be easier to just get a bike and then modify or change parts here and there instead of buying a basic frame and build the bike?

Maybe this approach applies more to SuperSport?

abtech · 06-06-2006, 4:24 PM

Buying a frame or engine off of eBay isn't any different than buying a wrecked bike, in fact probably even more risky.

Regardless of what the seller says, it wouldn't be for sale unless if came off a wrecked or salvaged bike. I would rather purchase something I could start and possibly ride (even if the bodywork was trashed and the pipe was beat up) than a crated engine or frame that I won't know the condition of until I put it together and run it. By then any implied warranty (yeah, right) is long gone.