[BIGSAPOTEER]

yeah but the tracks are not the same and its a lot different gathering data from a real race than "track testing"

[Heavy-Dee]

Originally Posted by BIGSAPOTEER

they are within 1/2 a seconds off in lap times.

1/2 of a second over a 12 lap race is 6 seconds away from 1rst. How long is a SuperStock race? I don't even know off hand.

I'd like to see a Duc in every series. But the simple fact is that they would get spanked all other things being equal.

The reason they are winning in WSBK is b/c Bayliss is a stud. I don't buy that the spec tire has anything to do w/ it. Most everyone runs Dunlops in AMA, so it's the same deal.

Ducati should probably run SuperStock w/ some up and comers. But they should stay in SuperBike as well. Even at 4-12 th positions it is still good marketing. People love to see them out there.

HD

[BDA116]

A superstock trim Ducati would be at least a second per lap slower than the Ducati superbike. At least.
Seriously, what kind of dope do you smoke?
The data gained on a superstock-trim bike would be absolutely worthless on a superbike spec bike. The suspensions are different, the chassis and chassis angles are different, the engines are different, the fuel management systems are different, hell even the tires would be different.
From your MotoGP rants about Rossi not being the best rider in the series, to your idiotic ramblings about the bikes, why not sit back and actually learn about it before spouting off?
Every time you touch your keyboard you dig a deeper hole. It is sad.
I wouldn't even call your thought process logic. More like random horseshit spewed over and over to try and sound like you know what you're talking about.
That may work in your circle of friends, but on the internet where there are people from around the world, and your words don't just flutter by into thin air so nobody can follow up, it is a different story.
I go back to my first thought of you being a troll.
Nobody can be this clueless.

[Heavy-Dee]

Well, at least I tried to be diplomatic....

[BDA116]

Originally Posted by Heavy-Dee

Well, at least I tried to be diplomatic....

Yeah, my diplomacy isn't really all there sometimes, eh?

[Heavy-Dee]

Well, you convinced me. LOL.

I still think they should be running in all classes. Just b/c you can't win doesn't mean you shouldn't run the race.

[phobiaphobe]

Well he isn't a "small" sapoteer.

[seamus]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Yeah, my diplomacy isn't really all there sometimes, eh?

It's getting better.

[BIGSAPOTEER]

before you get your panties all scrounched-up (BDA), let me explain. yes i know that the twins are underpowered and are getting their asses spanked in AMA superbike, but they are very competitive. and yes i know that track, riders, tires, weather, etc.. can vary the times, but in recent magazines shoot-outs the twins are on par with the inline 4's. SPORTS RIDER: (Button willow) 999- 1:08.334 CBR1000- 1:09.31 R1-1:08.36 ZX10-1:08.26 GSXR-1:07.98. MASTER BIKE SHOOT-OUT 2006 (VALENCIA) Aprilia-1:52.514 CBR1000-1:53.523 ZX10-1:52.573 GSXR-1:52.723 R1-1:53.217. Yes i know that the rider talent isn't the same as in AMA/WSBK, but if these v-twins are very competitve in "stock form", what makes you think that they wouldn't be competitve in Superstock? Who knows why Ducati is withdrawing from Superbike and not competing in Superstock next year. Remember that the 999R in WSBK is underpowered by 15-20 horsepower, yet Bayliss is having his way this year. There has to be a rule in AMA that doesn't favor the 999R. Hey BDA just because you watch SPEED, doesn't mean that you are an expert.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by BIGSAPOTEER

before you get your panties all scrounched-up (BDA), let me explain. yes i know that the twins are underpowered and are getting their asses spanked in AMA superbike, but they are very competitive. and yes i know that track, riders, tires, weather, etc.. can vary the times, but in recent magazines shoot-outs the twins are on par with the inline 4's. SPORTS RIDER: (Button willow) 999- 1:08.334 CBR1000- 1:09.31 R1-1:08.36 ZX10-1:08.26 GSXR-1:07.98. MASTER BIKE SHOOT-OUT 2006 (VALENCIA) Aprilia-1:52.514 CBR1000-1:53.523 ZX10-1:52.573 GSXR-1:52.723 R1-1:53.217. Yes i know that the rider talent isn't the same as in AMA/WSBK, but if these v-twins are very competitve in "stock form", what makes you think that they wouldn't be competitve in Superstock? Who knows why Ducati is withdrawing from Superbike and not competing in Superstock next year. Remember that the 999R in WSBK is underpowered by 15-20 horsepower, yet Bayliss is having his way this year. There has to be a rule in AMA that doesn't favor the 999R. Hey BDA just because you watch SPEED, doesn't mean that you are an expert.

All those times were done in a comparison test, not a competition and usually were the best of several tens of laps that every editor and their brother could muster.

Put them all on the line and drop the green flag . . . Different ballgame altogether.

Don't believe the magazine tests, believe the certified lap times at the races if you are going to compare one bike versus another.

[BIGSAPOTEER]

if you want to compare "rea lap time" for race bikes here it goes. AMA Superbike (Mid-Ohio) 1. 1:25.691 2. 1:25.930 3. 1:26.538 4. 1:26.714 5. 1:26.791 // Superstock (Mid-Ohio) 1. 1:26.747 2. 1:26.754 3. 1:26.915 4. 1:27.252 5. 1:27.264. // If you takes the top two riders (Spies, Matladin/) the lap times are very similar. Now, if the superbikes are heavily modified and superstock are very close to production bikes, what makes you think that a 999R wouldn't be competitve in superstock? The only reason Ducati won't go to superstock is because of suberbike being the "prestige" racing in AMA. Oh yeah, the avg. speed in Superbike was 94.211 mph, avg. lap time 1:26.359. compare that to superstock 93.594mph and avg. lap time 1:26.959. By the way if you haven't noticed im just trying to . Can we all just get along?

[abtech]

Originally Posted by BIGSAPOTEER

if you want to compare "rea lap time" for race bikes here it goes. AMA Superbike (Mid-Ohio) 1. 1:25.691 2. 1:25.930 3. 1:26.538 4. 1:26.714 5. 1:26.791 // Superstock (Mid-Ohio) 1. 1:26.747 2. 1:26.754 3. 1:26.915 4. 1:27.252 5. 1:27.264. // If you takes the top two riders (Spies, Matladin/) the lap times are very similar. Now, if the superbikes are heavily modified and superstock are very close to production bikes, what makes you think that a 999R wouldn't be competitve in superstock? The only reason Ducati won't go to superstock is because of suberbike being the "prestige" racing in AMA. Oh yeah, the avg. speed in Superbike was 94.211 mph, avg. lap time 1:26.359. compare that to superstock 93.594mph and avg. lap time 1:26.959. By the way if you haven't noticed im just trying to . Can we all just get along?

Whose times are those you are quoting? Are they on Ducatis?

BTW, I'm not certain Ducati wants to spend the $100K for Superstock homologation in AMA. They never did for the 748 until it started winning in WSS.

[BDA116]

Here are apples-to-apples lap times, even BIGGIE should be able to follow:
VIR Superstock race, best laps in the actual race 1-5 best:
01:26.076 Jamie A Hacking Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:26.101 Jason Disalvo Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:26.278 Eric Bostrom Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:26.445 Joshua Hayes Honda CBR1000RR
01:26.562 Aaron W Yates Suzuki GSX-R1000

Now, best lap times from the Ducatis in the VIR Superbike race, where Hodgson and Bostrom had fourth and sixth fastest lap times, respectively:
01:26.355 Neil Hodgson Ducati 999R
01:26.497 Ben D Bostrom Ducati 999R
Now look closely - they would have still been the fourth and sixth fastest lap times, on fully built superbikes. The Ducatis would be about a second a lap slower in SS trim without the electronics, traction control and back to stock bits. They would be hit far harder by this than the I4s.
So even the full factory Duc superbikes running against the satellite team superstock bikes, they still wouldn't be any more competitive than they are now.

Sad how you keep digging your hole.

[CBR929RE]

BDA wins

after that last post this discussion is over.
























I can't believe I just said good things about BDAs argueing skills. and the rep I gaev him put him over 1000.

[phobiaphobe]

He has much to be proud of.

[abtech]

Originally Posted by BDA116

Here are apples-to-apples lap times, even BIGGIE should be able to follow:
VIR Superstock race, best laps in the actual race 1-5 best:
01:26.076 Jamie A Hacking Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:26.101 Jason Disalvo Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:26.278 Eric Bostrom Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:26.445 Joshua Hayes Honda CBR1000RR
01:26.562 Aaron W Yates Suzuki GSX-R1000

Now, best lap times from the Ducatis in the VIR Superbike race, where Hodgson and Bostrom had fourth and sixth fastest lap times, respectively:
01:26.355 Neil Hodgson Ducati 999R
01:26.497 Ben D Bostrom Ducati 999R
Now look closely - they would have still been the fourth and sixth fastest lap times, on fully built superbikes. The Ducatis would be about a second a lap slower in SS trim without the electronics, traction control and back to stock bits. They would be hit far harder by this than the I4s.
So even the full factory Duc superbikes running against the satellite team superstock bikes, they still wouldn't be any more competitive than they are now.

Sad how you keep digging your hole.

not to mention the weight differential . . .

[tigerblade]

Bring back Pro Thunder!!!

[abtech]

Originally Posted by tigerblade

Bring back Pro Thunder!!!

SOS/BOTT Baby!

[BIGSAPOTEER]

ok BDA 1 more time. uno mas. DAYTONA 2006

Hodgy (Superbike) Fast lap 1:38.52 // 107.795 mph
Yates (Superbike)- Fast lap 1:39.347 // 106.89 mph
Yates (Superstock) Fast lap 1:40.667 // 105.496 mph
Disalvo (Superstock) Fast lap 1:39.738 // 106.480 mph
Mladin (Superbike) Fast lap 1:38.09 // 108.262 mph

As you can see there isn't much of a difference between Superbike/Superstock, even for the GSXR. (Less that 1/2 a second between a superbike and a superstock). What makes you think that it would affect the Duc much more if it went to superstock? i believe its more about $$$$$ that Ducati is withdrawing from AMA. Yep the WSBK/BSB 999R is underpowered by some 20 hp, but oh my it is in 1st in WSBK by (77 points) and 1st & 2nd in BSB by (26 & 11 points). Yeah you are right BDA, the 999R is not competitive, never mind buddy. I could understand Ducati not going to Superstock because of $$$$$, but not because of talent or machine.

[BDA116]

I see you still can't put your shovel down. You know what's sad is that someone out there has an even lower IQ than you and actually believes your BS.
First off, your facts are not complete nor correct. At Daytona the fastest superstock race lap times are as follows:
01:39.391 Geoff May Suzuki GSX-R1000
01:39.572 Jason Disalvo Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:39.738 Jamie A Hacking Yamaha YZF-R1LE
The fastest race lap times the Ducati superbikes could hack are:
01:38.520 Neil Hodgson Ducati 999R
01:39.289 Ben D Bostrom Ducati 999R
Congrats, Hodgson actually cut a faster lap time than the fastest superstock bike at a track that is all about horsepower, where the Ducati superbike has a vast advantage over the superstock bikes. An advantage that would disappear and become a detriment under superstock rules. Not to mention the weight they would gain and chassis and suspension parts that would disappear.
What is really sad is that at the horsepower track, a full factory effort from Ducati couldn't even produce one race lap that was a full second faster than the fastest superstock bike race lap. Pathetic. At Daytona their disadvantage in superstock trim would be even greater than the other tracks.

Now let's move on to smaller tracks, tracks where that horsepower advantage wouldn't come into play, but the chassis and weight advantage should.
California Speedway fastest superstock times:
01:25.158 Jason Disalvo Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:25.203 Jamie A Hacking Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:25.412 Geoff May Suzuki GSX-R1000
01:25.439 Aaron W Yates Suzuki GSX-R1000
01:25.618 Eric Bostrom Yamaha YZF-R1
Ducati superbike times:
01:25.169 Neil Hodgson Ducati 999R
01:25.617 Ben D Bostrom Ducati 999R
Again, full, huge dollar superbikes with parts and advantages they would lose in superstock have a sad showing against the superstock bikes.

How about Mid-Ohio?
Well, here are your superstock times:
01:26.162 Aaron W Yates Suzuki GSX-R1000
01:26.190 Jamie A Hacking Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:26.320 Eric Bostrom Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:26.332 Jason Disalvo Yamaha YZF-R1LE
01:26.376 Geoff May Suzuki GSX-R1000
And your Ducati superbike times:
01:26.205 Ben D Bostrom Ducati 999R
01:26.508 Neil Hodgson Ducati 999R

No smoke, mirrors and false data like in your posts, just straight apples-to-apples lap time comparisons.
The bikes and riders win a superstock title as they are. Why would Ducati run even more inferior bikes in that series when the results would be the same as superbike?
It doesn't surprise me one bit that you can't understand why they would be so inferior. Your posts on MotoGP riders, the bikes, superbikes and superbike riders have shown over and over again that you have no clue whatsoever about what you type.

Go ahead, dig some more. Keep making yourself look silly. It's a riot.

[BIGSAPOTEER]

DAYTONA

MAY (SUPERSTOCK)- 1:39.391
YATES (SUPERBIKE)- 1:39.347
MLADIN (superbike)- 1:38.09
HODGY (SUPERBIKE)- 1:38.520

Wow you are right the suberbikes are waaaaaaay beter than the superstock. Don't forget the rider factor (e.i. Bayliss) and its over for those guys. Yes i know you said why would bayliss leave WSBK to race in AMA superstock, but IF he did he would be a contender for the championship. my whole point is that, the 999R is competitive in the right hands. How do you know if the performance would drop dramatically? It doesn't seem to effect the other bikes as much. It's not about horsepower, but how well you put it to the ground and who rides the bike, just ask Bayliss.