[Heavy-Dee]

It's official

[evl_twn]

"I am as determined as ever, and really want to win the Superbike World Championship. This is probably the biggest challenge of my sporting career.”

I guess MotoGP wasn't a challenge?

Awesome!! Hope his attitude has been adjusted & he kicks a$$!!

[ReaperAZ]

Here come the excuses!

[Crash]

WSBK next year will be even more exciting for sure. Biaggi thrown into the mix is awesome. I don't think he'll do better than Barros did this year, but maybe in 08 he'll be there.

WSBK will be almost as exciting as MotoGP for sure.

[abtech]

Now if they would just get rid of the stinkin Pirsmellis, things would be great!

[RRWANTR]

I think they should go to Tomahawks. Why don't you like control tires Ab?

Shouldn't this have been posted in this original thread?

Biaggi to WSBK

[abtech]

Originally Posted by RRWANTR

I think they should go to Tomahawks. Why don't you like control tires Ab?

Shouldn't this have been posted in this original thread?

Biaggi to WSBK

Spec tires (particularly the Pirelli's) limit the development of the total package. Take a look at the times of the WSB bikes at Laguna vs the same hardware running Dunlops or Michelins with the AMA riders.

If you are the only player, you don't need to build a competitive product.

That is all . . .

[ReaperAZ]

Originally Posted by Crash

WSBK next year will be even more exciting for sure. Biaggi thrown into the mix is awesome. I don't think he'll do better than Barros did this year, but maybe in 08 he'll be there.

WSBK will be almost as exciting as MotoGP for sure.

On paper he should do better then Barros, heck Alex's Honda is no factory bike. The Alstare boys have some goodies available to them.

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by abtech

Spec tires (particularly the Pirelli's) limit the development of the total package. Take a look at the times of the WSB bikes at Laguna vs the same hardware running Dunlops or Michelins with the AMA riders.

If you are the only player, you don't need to build a competitive product.

That is all . . .

Do you have links to the times? I can't remember, was there only 1 year that the AMA ran the spec tires at Laguna before they left or was it more?

Don't you think a spec tire helps level the field and make it more about developing the bike and rider thus making for a better comparison and closer racing?

[QuikMike]

I guess the bigger question is: What does this mean for Corser(who is currently unsigned for '07) and Kagayama? Is this gonna be a three-man team, or is somebody gonna get forced out....?? time will tell I guess.....silly season is in full swing!!!

[abtech]

Originally Posted by RRWANTR

Do you have links to the times? I can't remember, was there only 1 year that the AMA ran the spec tires at Laguna before they left or was it more?

Don't you think a spec tire helps level the field and make it more about developing the bike and rider thus making for a better comparison and closer racing?

The AMA never ran spec tires in Superbike. That was my point. The last qualifier for the AMA grid would have started from the third row in the WSB race. The pole position in WSB would have started in the third to last row of the AMA race.

A spec tire does nothing beyond getting tires built for one particular team (always a Ducati team in WSB's case) and everyone else has to use them. They hinder development and the movement of the state of the art. Most WSB teams are actually tuning their chassis backwards (by adding flex and other non positive development) to optimize performance on the spec tire, while every other Superbike series on the planet is developing tires to stay with the technology of the bike/rider combination.

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by abtech

The AMA never ran spec tires in Superbike. That was my point. The last qualifier for the AMA grid would have started from the third row in the WSB race. The pole position in WSB would have started in the third to last row of the AMA race.

DOH! I did a typo. I meant did WSBK only run one year of spec tires at Laguna before leaving....sorry about the typo. I was typing something about the AMA and WSBK running at Laguna and edited it and missed taking out AMA...

Do you have a link to the times from the last year?

A spec tire does nothing beyond getting tires built for one particular team (always a Ducati team in WSB's case) and everyone else has to use them. They hinder development and the movement of the state of the art. Most WSB teams are actually tuning their chassis backwards (by adding flex and other non positive development) to optimize performance on the spec tire, while every other Superbike series on the planet is developing tires to stay with the technology of the bike/rider combination.

So....how could one make it more level besides spec tires? You have regs on parts/mods, configs etc that one can do on the bike to help level the field. You get all manufactures in with different tires for each mfg etc don't you just add another variable into the mix that could further disguise rider/bike ability due to one mfg having a better tire, that the other can't get etc.

I get your point about competition causing improvements etc..

[Getsome]

Wonder how it would go if they were not tied to one particular brand of tire but just had their choice to test and use whatever the hell they decided to use that week.......

Then each could pick what they decide worked best for them and no one could really cry about someone else having a better tire...

No tire sponsors just use whatever they wanted to..

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by RRWANTR

So....how could one make it more level besides spec tires? You have regs on parts/mods, configs etc that one can do on the bike to help level the field. You get all manufactures in with different tires for each mfg etc don't you just add another variable into the mix that could further disguise rider/bike ability due to one mfg having a better tire, that the other can't get etc.

so should they all go to "spec" bikes? kinda like in nascrap where they all have to have this engine configuration and this much power and fit into the aero template. as long as the bikes are different the tires should be too. if the other guys bike is better than yours on X tire than try Y tire. Like Ab was saying the Pirelli's are basically built for the Duc. Doesn't that give the Ducs an advantage over the other bikes which might not be as well suited for Pirelli's? so by leveling the playing field they have effectively given one team an advantage.

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by abtech

The AMA never ran spec tires in Superbike. That was my point. The last qualifier for the AMA grid would have started from the third row in the WSB race. The pole position in WSB would have started in the third to last row of the AMA race.
.

Found the qualifying times and though the AMA times were quicker, I think you're exaggerating a bit.

WSBK pole was 1:26.9 10th was 1:28.1

AMA pole was 1:24.9 10th was 1:29.3 and the last qualifier was 1:33.2.

So in no way would the last qualifier from the AMA grid start from the third row in the WSB race....and the pole in WSB would have started in the 7th position on the AMA grid, not in the third to last row of the grid. Actually the top 10 in WSB would have fit in from 7th through 18th.

If you compared the Ducati to Ducati the fastest Duc was Eboz at 1:27.9 in AMA and Steve Martin 1:26.9 in WSBK.


Did they have spec tires in 03 or was 04 the first year? Edit: Couldn't have had spec tires in 03 as AMA wildcards rode in it.

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

so should they all go to "spec" bikes?

So why have limits on what can be done to the bike and on engine size etc?

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by RRWANTR

So why have limits on what can be done to the bike and on engine size etc?

because I don't want it to turn into Nascrap. Remember those are called "stock" cars even though there isn't one item on any of them thats from a stock car.

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

because I don't want it to turn into Nascrap. Remember those are called "stock" cars even though there isn't one item on any of them thats from a stock car.

I think you may have misread my post....
I asked why HAVE limits on engine size, parts etc..(as it is currently). Why not make it a free for all?



You won't find much "stock" on a superbike either.

I

[RRWANTR]

Originally Posted by CBR929RE

if the other guys bike is better than yours on X tire than try Y tire. .

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. As a non factory rider try walking up to Dunlop and getting the same tire Mladin is running that day. It won't happen.

[CBR929RE]

Originally Posted by RRWANTR

I think you may have misread my post....
I asked why HAVE limits on engine size, parts etc..(as it is currently). Why not make it a free for all?



You won't find much "stock" on a superbike either.

I

nope I read it perfectly. think about it, the more changes you allow the less stock stuff will remain. atleast there is some stuff on a superbike and its still production based. where as nascar cars are rules based yet they still call them stock cars. motogp is for prototype bikes, we don't need another class like that.

if you make it a free for all there's gonna be only a handful of bikes competing for the win. and its gonna be because they have the money to do it (and yes the money buys the better rider also so lets take him out of the equation and stick with just the bike). not to say it pretty much isn't already that way anyway. but we don't need the backmarkers getting lapped anymore than they already are.

[CBR929RE]