will rossi win...

luvtolean · 10-06-2006, 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beefus1000

I know its not fair to say "what if"etc....but we all know that NH, if he wins the WC, will not be the best rider.(maybe 4th or 5th best) to win. I just think that Melandri, Capirossi, Gibernau, Pedrosa, Rossi are better and had they not had the problems they have had...Hayden would not have been in with a shout of the title.....

IMO, he doesn't push ( or look like) he pushes hard enough...if he wins then fine, he won because he got more points than anyone else...but it could be seen as a bit hollow seeing as he only won two races and one of those was an Edwards fcuk up...he's just not dominant enough for me to be considered a true WC.

Complete and total poo.

If Nicky wins it is because he and his team were the best this year. PERIOD!

What the hell is this, if so and so didn't do so and so, and if so went left and so went right. **** that. This is racing. All the bullshit stops when the green flag drops, Nicky is playing on the same field as them and beating them week in week out. End of the story!

If Nicky loses by a point, it will still be his title in my mind, the stewards did **** him in Aus. Also, fact. In court, an apology is an admission of guilt, and it is here too.

Crash · 10-06-2006, 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Complete and total poo.

If Nicky wins it is because he and his team were the best this year. PERIOD!

What the hell is this, if so and so didn't do so and so, and if so went left and so went right. **** that. This is racing. All the bullshit stops when the green flag drops, Nicky is playing on the same field as them and beating them week in week out. End of the story!

If Nicky loses by a point, it will still be his title in my mind, the stewards did **** him in Aus. Also, fact. In court, an apology is an admission of guilt, and it is here too.

He'd have a 14 point lead if it hadn't been for Aus.

*actually it would be more than 14 points. Rossi gained 5 additional points by finishing third plus not being penalized. If he had been penalized the 10 seconds, he might have been out f the points for the race. Huge swing there. Melandri would be the closest to him... hmmmm

onevcs · 10-06-2006, 5:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Complete and total poo.

If Nicky wins it is because he and his team were the best this year. PERIOD!

What the hell is this, if so and so didn't do so and so, and if so went left and so went right. **** that. This is racing. All the bullshit stops when the green flag drops, Nicky is playing on the same field as them and beating them week in week out. End of the story!

If Nicky loses by a point, it will still be his title in my mind, the stewards did **** him in Aus. Also, fact. In court, an apology is an admission of guilt, and it is here too.

Dude he was all kinds of wrong. If, and that's a big "if", NH wins, he will be the WC and IMO, he earned it

. The competition is not about who is the best 4 lap rider, or the coolest, or the most technical

. The championship is about points. The one with the most points wins. (Notice there's a period after "wins".) Plain and simple.
May be they could have and MVP trophy this year just in case Rossi does not make it to the top of the podium, you know.

beefus1000 · 10-07-2006, 2:41 AM

Quote : "Nicky is playing on the same field as them and beating them week in week out"....

So he bloody well should be...he's been on a factory Honda for long enough...a bike that has arguably been the best. I know he's been developing new parts this year but you could argue that HRC are screwing him, especially recently with the clutch problems he's been having. Get the title in the bag first.

OK, you can all see I'm not a big fan but some of you lot are throwing the toys out of the pram...Just because he's from the US of A.

Head to head he is below Pedrosa, ROssi, Capirossi, Melandri and maybe an on form Gibernau...IMHO.

P.S. Enjoy it if he wins the title 'cause he will get his ass kicked next year big time.

Baketech · 10-07-2006, 8:19 AM

beefus, you are certainly entitled to your opinion...but not sure how you defend this one "Head to head he is below Pedrosa"...
If that statement held water, wouldn't he be trailing Pedrosa in points...

beefus1000 · 10-07-2006, 8:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baketech

beefus, you are certainly entitled to your opinion...but not sure how you defend this one "Head to head he is below Pedrosa"...
If that statement held water, wouldn't he be trailing Pedrosa in points...

IMO, if Hayden was in a head-2-head battle for 1st place with any of the riders I mentioned I think he'd come 2nd best. Don't forget Pedrosa had a huge highside and has probably lost points as a result of his injuries. He's still a bit nervous when fighting the top boys but that's just down to experience. Basically, I want my World Champions to win more than 2 races in a season, especially when one of them is almost a dead cert (Laguna).

Baketech · 10-07-2006, 8:39 AM

He's been head to head with Pedrosa all season, and is beating him....

CBRVFR · 10-07-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beefus1000

IMO, if Hayden was in a head-2-head battle for 1st place with any of the riders I mentioned I think he'd come 2nd best. Don't forget Pedrosa had a huge highside and has probably lost points as a result of his injuries. He's still a bit nervous when fighting the top boys but that's just down to experience. Basically, I want my World Champions to win more than 2 races in a season, especially when one of them is almost a dead cert (Laguna).

We've had the benifit of seeing Nicky race for years, and he is capable of enormous aggression on the track. I remember him barging through his AMA Honda team mates to get the title when he was just a teenager. You should have seen his kamakaze last-turn move at Assen, which was only slightly less insane than Edwards'.

Last year he crashed a couple of times and took himself out of serious competition. So he learned how to win, which is to finish the race and be consistent. If the alien vegetable matter formerly known as Dani learns that lesson, he'll be more competitive next year.. Actually, I think he reached puberty a couple of weeks ago, and is now riding to conserve his seed pods, just in case he ever gets to use them.

If he wins the title, he'll deserve it far more than Rossi, who has the benefit of having been given points by the FIM. And any grousing regarding his lack of first place finishes will be met by a pretty unanimous

beefus1000 · 10-07-2006, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

We've had the benifit of seeing Nicky race for years, and he is capable of enormous aggression on the track. I remember him barging through his AMA Honda team mates to get the title when he was just a teenager. You should have seen his kamakaze last-turn move at Assen, which was only slightly less insane than Edwards'.

Last year he crashed a couple of times and took himself out of serious competition. So he learned how to win, which is to finish the race and be consistent. If the alien vegetable matter formerly known as Dani learns that lesson, he'll be more competitive next year.. Actually, I think he reached puberty a couple of weeks ago, and is now riding to conserve his seed pods, just in case he ever gets to use them.

If he wins the title, he'll deserve it far more than Rossi, who has the benefit of having been given points by the FIM. And any grousing regarding his lack of first place finishes will be met by a pretty unanimous

So he learnt how to win.....or learnt how to be consistent??......probably the latter given that he's got 3 wins in his MGP career and two of them at a track he could ride around blindfold and do well!!!

luvtolean · 10-08-2006, 11:44 AM

Beefus...you dislike Nick because he's American...I'd guess. Like most of the Euro press.

beefus1000 · 10-08-2006, 1:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

Beefus...you dislike Nick because he's American...I'd guess. Like most of the Euro press.

I don't dislike him because I don't know him..I dislike his apparent contentment in riding for points as opposed to riding hard. And as I said previously, 3 wins with two if them in the US is not overly impressive for a potential WC. But he seems like a nice guy all the same....
2006 wins;

Rossi 5
Capirex 3
Melandri 3
Pedrosa 2
Hayden 2

And that's without any major mishaps/engine failures from Hayden. THe other 4 have had mechanical failure or serious injuries and they still win/equal than Hayden....even his rookie team-mate is on the same number of wins. Could do better IMHO.

Luvtolean - I could say you like him just because he IS an American....so who's wearing the rose-tinted specs? ;-)

luvtolean · 10-08-2006, 1:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beefus1000

Luvtolean - I could say you like him just because he IS an American....so who's wearing the rose-tinted specs? ;-)

You already did.

This is silly. Racing results are some of the most simple things in the world to understand. There are winners, there are losers. Everyone else has lost more often to Nick so far this year.

This nebulous talk of "who is the better rider" is meaningless. The championship is won by the best rider/team.

There are many racers of supposed immense natural talent who never won a championship...and I don't respect them as much as the riders who do win consistently.

Saying finishing 3rd or 4th at a MotoGP event means not riding hard or aggressively is stupid.

BDA116 · 10-08-2006, 1:53 PM

Listing Podrosa over Hayden in your little list just proves the point.

phobiaphobe · 10-08-2006, 1:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBRVFR

If he wins the title, he'll deserve it far more than Rossi,

Whoever wins will have deserved it; but if Rossi wins it will be in spite of incredibly difficult circumstances, and all that more remarkable.

Baketech · 10-08-2006, 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beefus1000

I dislike his apparent contentment in riding for points as opposed to riding hard.

This is getting comical... fish on...

beefus1000 · 10-08-2006, 2:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luvtolean

You already did.

This is silly. Racing results are some of the most simple things in the world to understand. There are winners, there are losers. Everyone else has lost more often to Nick so far this year.

This nebulous talk of "who is the better rider" is meaningless. The championship is won by the best rider/team.

There are many racers of supposed immense natural talent who never won a championship...and I don't respect them as much as the riders who do win consistently.

Saying finishing 3rd or 4th at a MotoGP event means not riding hard or aggressively is stupid.

OK, maybe I shouldn't compare because we all know who the best rider is...Rossi....and we've been spoilt by his immense talent and dominance over the years so comparing Hayden to the likes of VR is a wee bit unfair. The best race of the year for me was Sachsenring, even better because I was there. The battle between Rossi, Melandri, Hayden, Pedrosa was awesome and my opinion of Hayden went up because he was really going for it....he just doesn't (appear) to do it enough for me I'm afraid. Of course he's hugely talented, but at the risk of repeating myself!!....on a factory Honda he should be doing better. Sorry guys, its not anti-American or anything...if it had been Melandri or Gibernau etc on the same bike the past few years I'd be saying the same thing.

phobiaphobe · 10-08-2006, 3:00 PM

Of course if NH took more risks he'd win more... and crash more. I suppose his consistency got him where he is in the points, but consistency isn't very entertaining.

PartsGenius · 10-08-2006, 4:23 PM

Damn-what a thread! Went from one end of the spectrum to the other. Props to all though. Looks like in the end we're all just race fans that want to see great racing!I don't follow MotoGP nearly enough to comment on the considerable skills these guys all possess(although I'd like to see Nicky win too!), but man, this has sure been entertaining-thanks!

Baketech · 10-08-2006, 7:09 PM

<--- looking forward to the day when I can view 9 podiums in a deep talent pool as "conservative" or "contented"...

luvtolean · 10-08-2006, 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PartsGenius

Damn-what a thread! Went from one end of the spectrum to the other. Props to all though. Looks like in the end we're all just race fans that want to see great racing!I don't follow MotoGP nearly enough to comment on the considerable skills these guys all possess(although I'd like to see Nicky win too!), but man, this has sure been entertaining-thanks!

Since Nicky has been in the championship lead, some doofus outside the US will show up in every one of these threads and open their mouth, allowing **** to spew forth. It's like they feel the need to educate us dumb Americans or something.

The media outside the US is incredibly unkind to Nicky, and the international fans do their due diligence like good little propagandists and repeat the nonsense they read hear.

You must not read many GP prediction threads.

abtech · 10-08-2006, 7:32 PM

This post is entirely an opinion, nothing more, nothing less.

Arguably the most exciting rider in the past 20 years was Kevin Schwantz who has more European fans than American (check his site sometime, it's pretty amazing).

Kevin ran it on the edge for 5 seasons until he decided to try and win a championship (many liberties taken with that last statement).

Most educated fans feel his championship year was his most boring, as he settled down and garnered points as opposed to his earlier mantra of win or crash. He still won the championship and even though he never was able to repeat due to Eddie Lawson's freebie at Assen that cost Kevin his wrist, I believe in the end, he was a great rider that needed to "pull back" to win a championship.

All things being equal, I would love to see Schwantz on his 92 bike run against Rossi on anything. Whatever the outcome, it would be a gas to watch . . .

anthmac · 10-09-2006, 6:29 PM

Quote: