[Repsol_69]

That had to be one of, if not the, best race of the season. I was on my feet for the last 5 laps. I have to say though, I am really happy that Buckmaster didn't win.

As for the Superbike... Too bad for Bostrom. If he would have taken out Mladin like that I would have pissed my pants laughing with joy. Too bad such a prestiges championship (4th) was won by such a D!CK.

Good deal for Kurtis. But it would have been nice to see the three Honda's dicing it up.

[thebackdraft]

I missed the supersport but I did see the superbike. I was really hoping that Honda would sweep the last race of the season. Would have been fitting since Honda started the season that way. Lapped traffice phucking sucks. And yes I'm blaming the lappers for not getting out of the damn way.

[Heavy-Dee]

The superbike race was awesome, but really disapointing. I really want to see Ben on the box if not the win. Man was Miguel PO'd!!! Good for Kurtis. He was really making Ben work for the lead.

[CyBeR929]

Sure, Yates bowling balls the field at Laguna and he's the bad guy....'Has' Ben does it and it's 'lapped traffic's' fault . *That was a pure bonehead move on Ben's part the same way it was a bonehead move on Yates part. *There was no way either of them were going to successfully pull their moves off.

Edit:

Update...latest quote by Miguel doesn't really agree with the 'lappers' theory:

'You just never expect that out of Ben,' said Miguel DuHamel after the disastrous late race crash which put both DuHamel and team-mate Ben Bostrom on the ground.

[Heavy-Dee]

Soup

Here's the article. They both have arguments. The slower rider should have let him though. But, since he didn't, Ben should not have taken the line he did. I think Miguel would agree.

[abtech]

Heavy-Dee : Soup

Here's the article. *They both have arguments. *The slower rider should have let him though. *But, since he didn't, Ben should not have taken the line he did. *I think Miguel would agree.

Unfortunately the rulebook states that it is the overtaking riders ENTIRE responsibilty to safely pass the rider ahead. I hear this bitching all the time, but just because you are battling for the box, you still need to follow the rules. If only the fastest riders were allowed to race, the slowest of them would still be back markers and the leaders would still bitch about traffic.

Traffic is what makes racing interesting after the half way point of just about any motorcycle roadrace I have ever attended or watched. Using your head to place a slower rider between you and your opponent is what seperates the men from the boys. Racing with a 'win or crash and take everyone with you' attitude is total BS regardless of the series or points at stake.

Like the article mentions, in club racing, taking out a bunch of other riders while executing a bonehead pass usually buys the bonehead a free transport after the race.

[Heavy-Dee]

I think it is an unwritten 'courtesy' as far as the factory guys are concerned. I'm not sure where I stand. Ben definately screwed up. No doubt. But if I were the privateer and Ben was trying to get by, and I had no chance of placing or even finishing well, you better believe I would park that bike to the outside and let the leaders through. What did that guy expect to get out of the deal? No matter what he is an 'also ran'. Get the heck out of the way and let the big boys race. I know had Ben tried to pass me and took me and Miguel out I would feel like crap for not letting him by.

Just me.

[deez]

Miguel is one of the nicest guys out there competing, if he is a little pissed, then you can bet your bottom dollar that it is deserved. Ben WAS a WSBK rider who could win, and did (something like 5 consecutive victories at the end of the '01 season), but he reduced himself yesterday to an AMA rider in dire need of class a la Yates. That was a bonehead move, he should just say he is sorry to everyone involved and move on, but he blames the slower riders That wreck yesterday pretty much sums up his whole season.

[CyBeR929]

H-D, Did you see the wreck? The privateer was already at the apex of the turn when Ben mowed into him. How the heck was he (A) going to know Ben was coming on the inside line and (B) do anything about it? Ben damn well should have (A) seen the privateer turn in and been able to determine the privateer's trajectory and (B) adjusted his line accordingly.

I'm amazed the Honda faithful aren't completly up in arms about this. Ben destroyed what could have been a very postive 1-2-3 end to the season by selfishly pulling a win it or bin it move. Honestly, I think Miguel would have won the race if he wouldn't have been wiped out. You could just see him back there biding his time....too bad for Miguel.

Privateers are an issue in AMA...always have been, and probably always will be. It's not like this is new (as a certain 'D!CK' likes to repeatedly 'complain' about). Ben knows this...he made a mistake. He, as Booth points out, should just own up to it rather than try to pin it on someone else. He messed up...he's human, he should admit it, apologize, and move on.

[Heavy-Dee]

CyBeR929 : He messed up...he's human, he should admit it, apologize, and move on.

I agree.

[Heavy-Dee]

booth23 : That wreck yesterday pretty much sums up his whole season.

I also agree. Ben has had a bad year and I think it has messed up his head (not to mention his wrists). I think he'll come back.

[rocketman]

I saw the wreck, Ben lost his front end, his bike was down before taking out the others. he just pushed it too hard, the front end went away & down he went. It was not because there was a slower rider in his way, it was because there was a faster rider ahead of him (Kurtis), & he was pushing hard to catch him, & re-take the lead. Ben made a mistake & thats all it was, his mistake.

[abtech]

Heavy-Dee : I think it is an unwritten 'courtesy' as far as the factory guys are concerned. *I'm not sure where I stand. *Ben definately screwed up. *No doubt. *But if I were the privateer and Ben was trying to get by, and I had no chance of placing or even finishing well, you better believe I would park that bike to the outside and let the leaders through. *What did that guy expect to get out of the deal? *No matter what he is an 'also ran'. *Get the heck out of the way and let the big boys race. *I know had Ben tried to pass me and took me and Miguel out I would feel like crap for not letting him by. *

Just me.

You need to understand that every racing organization I know of prohibits the use of rear view mirrors on a competion motorcycle. *Riders are not supposed to look behind while racing. *This is the primary reasoning behind the rules stating the rider in front has the right of way until the overtaking rider has completely passed him (not alongside, or 1 wheel in front, but COMPLETELY passed).

I would not expect anyone to pull over for me even if I am going 50 miles per hour faster than they are. *I'm not making this stuff up, it's in the rulebook. *If I can't safely (and safely means for everyone concerned, not just me) get around a slower rider, then I have to suck it up and wait for the next opportunity.

If a slower rider 'pulls to the outside' to let a leader past, odds are he will place himself directly in front of another rider attempting a pass at the same time. The concept is to be smooth, predictable and run your own race. Anyone who has done this for at least one season can effectively judge the trajectory of a rider in front as long as they don't pull over or otherwise change lines through a corner.

[Heavy-Dee]

You are correct and I have changed my stance. I guess I wouldn't move over. However, why do I always see other privateers letting the fast guys through? Are THEY the rude ones? I definately see your point , but it seems that not everyone is reading the same rule book.

[CyBeR929]

Heavy-Dee : Quote (booth23 @ Sep. 22 2003, 10:14am)That wreck yesterday pretty much sums up his whole season.

I also agree. *Ben has had a bad year and I think it has messed up his head (not to mention his wrists). *I think he'll come back.
I really hope you're right. I hope he gets his wrists fixed and gets back with the program. My memories of his 5 straight wins in SBK are of a rider at the top of his game. I really hope he can get it back.

[abtech]

Heavy-Dee : You are correct and I have changed my stance. *I guess I wouldn't move over. *However, why do I always see other privateers letting the fast guys through? *Are THEY the rude ones? *I definately see your point , but it seems that not everyone is reading the same rule book.

I see them move over when shown the blue 'there's a race going on and you're not in it' flag. Otherwise they should hold their line. Sit through a riders meeting sometime and you will hear this drilled in over and over.

[Baketech]

abtech : I see them move over when shown the blue 'there's a race going on and you're not in it' flag. *Otherwise they should hold their line. *Sit through a riders meeting sometime and you will hear this drilled in over and over.

As always, sound advice from the board sage...

FWIW,even us weenies with just a few trackdays here and there have heard this maxim and taken it to heart....best thing is to maintain a predictable line.....

[tigerblade]

I'm a fan of Ben's, but the accident was his fault. Everyone was taking different lines through that turn and he just tried to stuff it in there.

[Red Rider]

I don't think the backmarkers knew what hit them. They had no clue Ben was coming up on the inside until it was too late...

[Repsol_69]

rocketman : I saw the wreck, Ben lost his front end, his bike was down before taking out the others. he just pushed it too hard, the front end went away & down he went. It was not because there was a slower rider in his way, it was because there was a faster rider ahead of him (Kurtis), & he was pushing hard to catch him, & re-take the lead. Ben made a mistake & thats all it was, his mistake.

This is one of the most intelligent things i have heard in this post.

You guys take advantage of the fact that you can see whats going on, via the cameras of the race. And i assume that makes you great racers. However keep in mind Ben and the other riders involved do not have the luxury of a wide angle lens and a commentator. Also consider the fact that Ben as well as others have to make decisions in less than a second. Then change their mind in a fraction of that. This is the reason the man has a factory ride on one of the best SBK teams out there, and you guys sit on your Lazy-Boy watching. Ben made a mistake and i think if you watch on you will see Ben on the side of the track a bit perturbed. Maybe it was his fault.

I will agree that it was a silly move, but i can also assure you that at some point Ben look over the situation and thought he would make it through. A mistake, thats all it was. A mistake that involves Ben Bostrom, Miguel Duhamel, and the other riders involved. Not you guys. and until you guys are sporting a full factory ride take it fro what it is... Entertainment!

As for the A$$hole statement comparing Ben to Arron Yates, I am a Yates fan, but Yates incident happened on the first lap in the first turn. Yates happened with world class racers. Hardly comparable. The only thing that can be compared of the two is they were both accidents.

And who is the D!CK that complains about lap traffic? That narrows it down to about 5 rider that i can think of.

Sorry about the rant gentlemen... carry on

[Repsol_69]

One correction.

I wrote maybe it was his fault. It was his fault, but still a mistake.

[Heavy-Dee]

'Okay Francis.'

[Heavy-Dee]

Heavy-Dee : Quote (CyBeR929 @ Sep. 22 2003, 10:25am)He messed up...he's human, he should admit it, apologize, and move on.

I agree.
BTW. I DID say that it was Ben's fa