Malaysian GP

abtech · 10-13-2003, 11:57 AM

[quote]CBRGuy : Quote (ccwilli3 @ Oct. 12 2003, 8:12pm)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerblade,Oct. 10 2003, 11:25am

I agree, Hayden did look good today.

I can't wait until he podiums. *It is going to be funny so a see an American, good ol' boy, git 'er done, redneck up there during the post race interviews. * *
You obviously missed the last 'good ol' boy' on his several trips to the podium . . . Nope, not the whiner (he isn't a good ol' anything). I'm talking about the original Texas Tornado: Kevin Schwantz.

Baketech · 10-13-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

BDA116 : He could over-ride the RC211V this year when he made his mistakes because he knows the bike, and it is good enough.

Agreed, the RC is so good that even a 'no talent ass clown' like Hayden can put it up in 4th.....

But that's different I guess.....when its Rossi its skill....when its someone else, its the bike.....

deez · 10-13-2003, 12:12 PM

Quote:

BDA116 : On the Ducati it would have been possible this year, no doubt.
But the current M1 is no match. Even with Rossi's abilities, he wouldn't have been a match for Gibernau and maybe even Biaggi this year had Rossi been on the M1.
If he goes to Yamaha and the next generation M1 is better, than he could very well be competetive with it. However, Honda is gonna be racing a next generation bike next year, too.
Just being realistic. Rossi's good, but the M1 isn't that good. He could over-ride the RC211V this year when he made his mistakes because he knows the bike, and it is good enough.

Checa put that thing 2nd on the grid this past weekend. And Biaatchi won races on the M1 LAST YEAR! Now Rossi wouldn't be able to come back from the 2 mistakes on the M1, but he could have won on it when he didn't make those crucial mistakes. Last year, Biaatch won Brno and Sepang, 4 2nd place finishes, and a few more 3rd positions. Yeah the Ducati wasn't here yet, but he still beat the RC211V on it, which is the better bike anyway. And that is Biaatchi, not Rossi.

BDA116 · 10-13-2003, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Baketech : Agreed, the RC is so good that even a 'no talent ass clown' like Hayden can put it up in 4th.....

But that's different I guess.....when its Rossi its skill....when its someone else, its the bike.....

It's gonna be tough for Hayden to bust into the top three, as it will mean beating one of 'the big three', but it will happen. When it does, it will be interesting to hear all the Hayden Haters and their excuses.
If Honda would have given Hayden the chassis adjustments he wanted, rather than tell him to get over it change his riding style instead, he would have already had multiple podiums.
The Kid had to change his riding style to suit a different bike and different tires, had to learn new tracks and had to do all this in a totally different environment than he was used to. All the while having to listen to 'experts' and journos talk about how he's not worthy of GP, and how the AMA Superbike isn't up to par.
There is a long list of very capable riders (WSC riders) that have fallen flat on their face when switching to Michelin from Dunlop. Hayden has been able to not only overcome that hurdle, but kick the hurdle's ass. Add the other hurdles, and Nicky has has proven that he is one of the top riders in the world.
But the Haters aren't wrong, Nicky is. It's all the bike.

If we want to prove that, let's put a 'no talent ass clown' on the bike. Hopkins would still be out of the top ten on the Honda.

deez · 10-13-2003, 12:35 PM

Quote:

BDA116 :

I'll tell you how Honda usually is on their #1 team. No wins? Then you get delegated to one of the satellite teams. Hayden is afforded some luxuries that others aren't. The journos are quick to light him up for that very reason. Maybe he'll be winning in the future, and perhaps champion (if Rossi quits LOL) but he isn't doing that now, and that seat is usually reserved for someone who can be competitive now.
I, for one, have never thought that he had no talent, he is a good rider, no doubt. But the hype and attention, well it's not warranted yet. If it is, then I would respect the Gayden fan club more, if they would have brought up Marco Melandri this year, he is a rookie in the class as well. He is every bit as good as Gayden but not on the RC211V. In fact, rarely is anything else discussed by Americans on these forums. Just what Nicky is doing, how he finished 12th, 7th, 5th, whatever. Never any talk or discussion of much else. He is the great white hype. If he wins, then great, he'll have finally earned his pay, riding the #1 machine out there.

CBRGuy · 10-13-2003, 12:39 PM

[quote]abtech : [quote=CBRGuy,Oct. 13 2003, 10:05am][quote=ccwilli3,Oct. 12 2003, 8:12pm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigerblade,Oct. 10 2003, 11:25am

You obviously missed the last 'good ol' boy' on his several trips to the podium . . . Nope, not the whiner (he isn't a good ol' anything). I'm talking about the original Texas Tornado: Kevin Schwantz.

Yeah, I didn't get into bike racing until a couple years ago plus I have only had Speedvision for about 5 months now thanks to Direct TV.

Baketech · 10-13-2003, 1:11 PM

Blame it on HRC for listening to those two charlatans, Doohan and Spencer......

deez · 10-13-2003, 1:16 PM

You are right Baketech, but I think Spencer and Doohan really just like his haircut

http://www.amasuperbike.com/image/20...readmaximx.jpg

BDA116 · 10-13-2003, 1:25 PM

Seriously, Booth, you need to bone up your 'knowledge' of GP before you post something like you just did. How long have you been paying attention to GP racing? Four or five years?
Honda has NEVER had a competetive rider on their second A-team bike. Honda doesn't demote someone because they weren't instantly competetive to the #1 rider.
Do a little research on fact before showing your cards. Let's go back, say ten years. That's easy enough.
Who was Doohan's teammate on the Rothmans bike? Was he demoted?
Who was Doohan's teammate after the Repsol sponsorship came? Was he demoted? Was he winning titles?
Sure, once Doohan stopped racing he won the title, but that was back when the GP talent pool was about as deep as the current WSC talent pool. In other words, nonexistent.
How about when Rossi came into the mix. Who was riding the team bikes?
If you're thinking Honda demotes everyone just because Ukawa was moved, that is humorous.
Honda runs their race team to stay competetive in the long run and to keep sponsor money. To stay sompetetive, you need to have a rider that can be groomed into being the title winner in a few years. If you have two top level riders on your factory team, you run the risk of not winning the title. That is why Hayden was brought in. Ukawa was never going to be that guy. Honda never expected Hayden to do as well as his is doing this year. Sponsor money is kept by keeping a Spanish of Italian rider on your team currently.
Honda sees big American dollar signs by grooming a new American champion. Get rid of the current sponsor mentality, and you have greater flexibility.
Fact is, all the 'experts' have been wrong about Hayden. Great white hype? As a matter of fact, that is both incorrect and racist. Hayden IS better than 90% of the current GP field.
Melandri? Give me a break. He MIGHT keep his own in World Supersport. He's been over hyped for a good four years. He couldn't hack it in 250 until all the good riders left.
Someday the Haters will have to see the facts.

deez · 10-13-2003, 1:30 PM

If they really wanted to groom someone, or give that spot up to someone who could win the title, then that would be Sete, going by results, not speculation. *You hit the nail on the head, he is there because of political b.s.

better than 90%, but no wins

http://misterb.speedyard.net/images/crack.jpg

Edit: And this is now, not 10 years ago. Yes that is why Ukawa got moved to the satellite team, because HRC wasn't impressed with his results last year.

luvtolean · 10-13-2003, 1:35 PM

So if Nicky Hayden is such a loser, and so undeserving, why is Doohan such a fan? *Probably doesn't understand riders, and talent...and Nicky is just there for politics.

And Honda has gotta suck to ride for. *Sure you get a great bike, but they're so fuggin arrogant they don't let you use your set-up. *They take their chassis engineer's word as gospel. *They purposely do not put all the adjustment capability into their chassis, so the teams can't mess with them. *Why do you think Rossi is leaving?

deez · 10-13-2003, 1:39 PM

Rossi is leaving because he wants more freedom to do what he wants, post race, run the #46 plate without getting from them over it. And the main reason is that he wants to be the #1 development rider on the RC, HRC says all 6 bikes will be the same next year, that is what Valentino said is pushing him to another mfr.

luvtolean · 10-13-2003, 1:50 PM

Yeah, all bikes will be the same. *My point exactly. You think these guys all ride the same?

Baketech · 10-13-2003, 1:54 PM

Too many people miss the point that Hayden was never expected by his employers to win or even contest a race this year.....he is there to develop his skills for the future.

I'll argue that he has outpaced even the expectations of HRC. Bet a 10 spot that he has already surpassed their projections.

The deal is, the package he brought to the table fit the team needs better than any other rider in the pool, and he has delivered....if that isn't earning your pay, I don't know what is.

BDA116 · 10-13-2003, 2:05 PM

I'll be the one to say it....
If Honda would allow the changes the chassis to that Hayden wanted, Hayden would have won a race by now. Disagree if you must, but if Vegas had betting on GP I would put good money on Hayden with a bike set to his specifications.

Heavy-Dee · 10-13-2003, 2:10 PM

What changes did he want?

ccwilli3 · 10-13-2003, 2:10 PM

Quote:

booth23 : they would have brought up Marco Melandri this year, he is a rookie in the class as well.

Melandri has the benefit of having raced ALL of these tracks before, for several years... That alone should make him better...

Had he been on the RC211V, 'maybe' he would have been better, but he had to make the 2stroke to 4 jump and also the dunlop to michelin jump...

Hayden was already used to the 4 strokers, but had to learn the tracks and the tires... And he does have a better bike...

Anyone else notice that the M1 had flowy lines and a big fairing last year, but this year, it has hard edges and a small fairing, like the RCV??

phozed · 10-13-2003, 2:13 PM

I also think Nicky wasn't supposed to do good his 1st season - look at the GP gods he is in front of (finishes in races and in total points) at the end of the season. Don't make me do searches on the Hayden hating and make all of you haters eat your words

Having said all that - are you ready for the latest rumors?? Fresh off the Edwards board:

1) I know where Col's going, but can't say. I'll leave that to Colin (or whoever else knows and leaks it first. haha) But let's just say that we can expect him at the pointy end of the field next year.
Rossi IS going to Yamaha.
Hayden, probably back to ama (rumour) to beat Mladin next year. As we know (some don't cause you still slag Honda for giving Nick the ride over Col) that Honda . U.S paid for that ride and so are keen to get him back and whuppin some Mladin arse.
There were major drama's with the bike this weekend, and Fat said that Col was really pissed about it. Can't say what went wrong, but I will say that if you thought the fuel thing and the $2 parts were bad, then you'd FREAK at this

I think the Hayden-AMA thing is CRAZY (what with Honda's current superbike situation) but I'm sure booth loves it If ANYTHING (imo) Nicky would stay in GP and get a new factory... but again, I don't think that'll happen!!

CBRGuy · 10-13-2003, 2:16 PM

Quote:

Baketech : Too many people miss the point that Hayden was never expected by his employers to win or even contest a race this year.....he is there to develop his skills for the future.

I'll argue that he has outpaced even the expectations of HRC. Bet a 10 spot that he has already surpassed their projections.

I agree 100%. Hayden is in 6th for the championship and only 5 points away from 5th. With the way he has been riding the past 3 races, I can almost guarantee he'll end up 5th in championship points. NOBODY would have guessed that at the beginning of the season.

ccwilli3 · 10-13-2003, 2:22 PM

Quote:

CBRGuy : I agree 100%. *Hayden is in 6th for the championship and only 5 points away from 5th. *With the way he has been riding the past 3 races, I can almost guarantee he'll end up 5th in championship points. *NOBODY would have guessed that at the beginning of the season.

Yep, I bet he passes Bayliss in points... Two more races, I really think he'll close the gap on bayliss for 5th... Just look at the guys in front of him, AMAZING...

Heavy-Dee · 10-13-2003, 2:26 PM

I doubt Nicky will be coming back to AMA. Seriously doubt it.

nedro · 10-13-2003, 2:40 PM

Quote:

Heavy-Dee : I doubt Nicky will be coming back to AMA. *Seriously doubt it.

BTW What happened to Tamada? All you guys were horny for him last week and he finishes in 10th. Maybe he should go to the AMA and learn a thing or two before trying to compete with the big boys.

A major concern of mine was layed to rest over the weekend. Nicky did a nice job of passing Capirossi and then chasing down and passing Checa.

Baketech · 10-13-2003, 2:43 PM

Is there still no official word on VR's status?