[ptlcb1]

When exactly did I give those numbers on the Duc that you say I did??? Dont twist what I say when you reply to what I say. Thats not asking to much, i dont think.

Stoner was on a Honda when it was a much better bike than the Duc. You seem to be good with numbers, so please inform me of the number of podiums Stoner had while he rode a Honda?

Capirossi put the Duc on the podium long before Stoner did, so the bike is more than capable. And if you were to read back previous posts, you would know why the other Duc isnt up front. I never said anyone riding a Duc will do great. Thats what you assumed I said... Melandri isnt as talented. Thats why he doesnt finish higher up. To this point, he is struggling. His whole career so far, he has never really been a threat in winning the title. He has a good race here and there, but thats it. The bike is good, but Melandri isnt in that top tier of riders. He has been mid pack most of his career.

Its interesting that you think the Duc is over-rated, but everyone in the MotoGP paddock last year didnt think so. Everyone praised, or complained, about the speed of the Duc. Honda and even Yamaha are now coming out with pnuematic valve engines! Why is that??? Because thats what the Duc has... Honda use to only look at themselves when wanting to raise the bar and improve. Now they are looking at the Ducati... Its the best bike and now they have a rider that is showing its full potential. Honda and Yamaha are giving the Duc credit, so I agree, enough said...

[03swanman954]

What did you guys think of the Night time racing??? Pretty cool Huh!!!

[slickwill]

Race Top Speeds:
1. Marco Melandri (Ducati), 207.8 mph
2. Casey STONER (Ducati), 205.4 mph
3. Toni ELIAS (Ducati), 204.1 mph)
4. Valentino (Yamaha), 202.7 mph
5. Dani PEDROSA (Honda), 202.3 mph
6. Sylvain GUINTOLI (Ducati), 201.6 mph
7. Jorge LORENZO (Yamaha), 201.0 mph
8. James TOSELAND (Yamaha), 200.3 mph
9. Chris VERMEULEN (Suzuki), 200.0 mph
10. Loris CAPIROSSI (Suzuki), 199.6 mph
11. Randy DE PUNIET (Honda), 198.9 mph
12. John HOPKINS (Kawasaki), 198.1 mph
13. Colin EDWARDS (Yamaha), 197.9 mph
14. Nicky HAYDEN (Honda), 197.7 mph
15. Anthony WEST (Kawasaki), 197.3 mph
16. Andrea DOVIZIOSO (Honda), 196.3 mph
17. Shinya NAKANO (Honda), 196.0 mph
18. Alex DE ANGELIS (Honda), 195.4 mph

It's a well known fact that the Duc's have a power advantage and more advanced TC. You can see the power advantage by just looking at the top speeds. However, the difference in results between Melandri and Stoner prove that Stoner has some skills to go with that power.

[.OrgOwner]

Big gap between top and bottom 12mph is going to make it very easy to blow past slower riders. And the two slowest, Honda.

[slickwill]

Yeah, a 4mph difference is someone just walking right past you with you standing still. 12mph is HUGE and yet the third slowest bike (top speed) managed a fourth place finish. So there is more to it than just pure power.

[03swanman954]

Originally Posted by slickwill

Yeah, a 4mph difference is someone just walking right past you with you standing still. 12mph is HUGE and yet the third slowest bike (top speed) managed a fourth place finish. So there is more to it than just pure power.

To get off the Ducatti bashing,,,my point is still simply I think that Casey Stoner could go with ANY team right now and still keep winning. He is that good right now. I would love to be saying that about Nicky Hayden, I am a die hard Hayden fan,,,all three Hayden's that is,,Nicky will be there, but no one right now is as smooth and flawless as Stoner and I am not a huge fan of Stoner,,although it sounds like I am. I am more a Team Honda with Nicky and Dani , than anything else. But you have to give credit to where its due.

In football its turnovers,,in Hockey its penalitys,,and in MotoGP its getting out of Rhythm like Hayden is right now,,,but Stoner is again just flawless,,he never makes a mistake,,,I would love to see it,,honestly,,but he never makes a mistake and he is smooth as silk and gets faster lap after lap,,he is like machine. Love to watch him ride!

[slickwill]

I think Stoner is awesome, also a HUGE Hayden fan, but Honda rider or not I'd like to see Pedrosa crash over and over and over every week. I'm not wishing any hurt on him, just lots of crashes.

[low-rider]

i don't want anyone to crash. stoner is very good and duc does good for him.stoner/ducati/bridgestone combination works the best at the moment. that is a fact. but there is a lot of good riders beside stoner there and maybe this season will not be so boring as last one. as i said earlier lorenzo will be better and better probably, toseland is also very good and i watched his superbike races. he has a huge potential. pedrosa is also a good rider and he could be among 3 fastest. and i wouldn count out rossi also. many good riders this season.

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by ptlcb1

Stoner was on a Honda when it was a much better bike than the Duc. You seem to be good with numbers, so please inform me of the number of podiums Stoner had while he rode a Honda?

He had 1 podium.
But it was also his first year in MotoGP and he wasnt on a factory bike.

Capirossi put the Duc on the podium long before Stoner did, so the bike is more than capable.

Sure - its a good bike. It even had a win in the last round before Stoner got it.
But it wasnt a dominant bike. It certainly never seemed to be amazingly faster than the other bikes out there.

Melandri isnt as talented. Thats why he doesnt finish higher up. To this point, he is struggling. His whole career so far, he has never really been a threat in winning the title. He has a good race here and there, but thats it. The bike is good, but Melandri isnt in that top tier of riders. He has been mid pack most of his career.

Mid pack - but with more wins than Hayden!
He has also finished 2nd and 4th in the championship in the last 3 years (and twice beating Hayden!)
Ok - its his first race on the bike, so maybe we shouldnt be using it as a fair comparison just yet.
But last year Stoner was clearly ahead of Capirossi, off the top of my head he was beaten by him twice, once due to cautious wet strategy and the other due to tyres going off.

Honda and even Yamaha are now coming out with pnuematic valve engines! Why is that??? Because thats what the Duc has...

Doesnt always mean a lot.
People tried thumb rear brakes because it worked for Mick Doohan!

Now they are looking at the Ducati... Its the best bike and now they have a rider that is showing its full potential. Honda and Yamaha are giving the Duc credit, so I agree, enough said...

Yes its a good bike and possibly the best.
But the point is more that even if its is better, its not that much better that you can put Stoners success down to mostly the bike.

And who knows if he would be winning on a Honda or Yamaha. Yes he is the form rider, but sometimes a bike suits a rider and they are a great pairing. I think thats possibly the case here. Neither the bike or rider alone is the reason, but together they are dynamite!

[ptlcb1]

dicknose,
If you look back at my previous posts on the topic, I never said that Stoners success was mostly because of the Ducati. I have given credit to Stoner in just about every post. My posts were slanted more towards how good the Ducati is, because 03swanman was giving all the credit to Stoner, and none to the bike. He said the Ducati is over-rated which is not true. I have never been a fan of Ducatis, but the combination of Stoner AND Ducati AND Bridgestone are winning most of the races right now...

The electronics on the 800cc bikes, the traction control, launch control systems, etc, are making the bikes easier to ride for the new guys in MotoGP. Thats not saying that the new guys are not talented, because they are. But would Stoner or Toseland or Lorenezo be having as much success, if MotoGP bikes were still 500cc 2-strokes? Im not sure they would this early in their careers.

I dont think, and I wasnt the one that said Stoner could be on a Kaw and still be winning. He is good, but not that good. The Ducati suits him well. They are the combination of bike and rider to beat right now in order to win races...

The question you have to ask, is why did others try Doohan's thumb brake? They tried it because he was winning races with it. They tried it because he was faster than everyone else. Others wanted to see if it would improve their results. Thats why Honda and Yamaha are building engines like the Ducati...

It does mean alot that they are trying this engines. Its the ultimate compliment! If you cant beat them, join them. Put yourself in Hondas or Yamaha's shoes. Im sure they feel their riders are just as talented as Stoner, but they dont have a shot at getting Stoner as a rider. What they are trying to get, is the same performance of his bike. That is why they are building those new engines. What would you do if you got tired of looking at the rear end of the Ducati all last year?

[denzee]

We all know to win races it takes a complete package. Rider, bike, tires, crew, congenial personalities etc. It all has to run like a well oiled machine. Ducati and Stoner are doing that.
According to these articles I've linked to, Ducati isn't even using pneumatic valves. They are still using desmo. Looks like with rpm's getting so high, Honda and others have no choice but to explore other valve actuation possibilities. Meaning pneumatic and are you ready for this? Desmo, ouch!, it even hurts to say it. Good reading here guys...

Honda Trying Both Pneumatic And Desmodromic Valves In '08 RC212V

Ducati Gets Technical About MotoGP Engine

[Mean1000]

What a great forum , just joined , love reading the comments , keep them up, they make for great entertainment .

[dicknose]

Originally Posted by ptlcb1

dicknose,
If you look back at my previous posts on the topic, I never said that Stoners success was mostly because of the Ducati. I have given credit to Stoner in just about every post. My posts were slanted more towards how good the Ducati is, because 03swanman was giving all the credit to Stoner, and none to the bike.

Definitely agree the bike is good. But Im not convinced that its the best bike - I think you could argue that after the 1st round this year that the Yamaha and Honda are at least its equal and that its only the Stoner+Ducati combo thats better. Not Stoner alone, not the Ducati alone - but that they work so well together.

I guess we will have to see how Melandri goes. He is quite a talented rider and has won his fair share of races. If the bike suits him then I would expect to see him up in the top 5 regularly.

[ptlcb1]

denzee,
Thanks for posting that info.

Mean1000,
Welcome to the site. FYI...Team Chicago is having their annual track day at Grattan a week from this Saturday, on the 29th. The cost is only $30. Five groups from racers to first time street riders that have never been on a track before. For a day at the track, you can tbeat the price! Only issue will be whether or not it snows! lol

[Mean1000]

Ptlcb1,
Thanks for the info, not suppose to be a very pretty weekend. By any chance could you tell me the times . Sounds like alot of fun .

[ptlcb1]

The track walk starts at 7am Saturday, with the five groups. According to the registrations they recieved, entrants are assigned to their groups. The instructors within the groups, divide up the entrants. This will be their instructor for the entire day. After the track walk there are classroom sessions, then track sessions. It looks like it will be cold, but sunny, so they will be riding. All the instructors have raced there at some point. They know the track well. I instructed with them for a few years. Yes, it is alot of fun! Lots of information. You meet many new people that all have a passion for bikes! Just wear lots of warm clothes! Whether riding or just hanging out, its going to be cold! Then on Sunday, its a test and tune day for motorcycles. This is a Grattan event, so there is a cost. Not sure what that cost is. Mostly racers but many people usually stay over from Saturday. Depending on how many riders they have on Sunday, determines the number groups they will have.

[Mean1000]

Thanks again for the info Ptlcb1, I think I will be heading out there , I am actually going to try and meet someone in my area that may want to be a riding partner, I will keep my fingers crossed that there are a few there from around Grand Rapids . Of course over here we awoke to a bit of snow, so I hope it will all melt and warm up by then. Darn it !

[ptlcb1]

Your welcome. There are usually a few from the Grand Rapids area that show up each year. I believe there are usually guys from Gars Powersports that get together and go each year. You may want to stop up there and ask if anyone is heading out there. Its going to be in the 40's but sunny!